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United States43318 Posts
On March 12 2019 09:03 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2019 05:36 KwarK wrote:
But on the SW subject, I quite liked Luke being a colossal disappointment to the fans. We have a farm kid who is swept up into these grand affairs and told he’s going to save the world. He blows up a Death Star or two, gets an apprentice, and tells himself he won’t make his father’s mistakes. And then he does because life sucks sometimes, and it basically breaks him. He can’t be “Luke the savior” but he doesn’t know what the hell else to be because he was a kid when he found himself in the middle of a war. Errr...none of this happened the way you claimed it did. I'm no Star Wars fanatic (my brother roped me into the scene as an adolescent) but it's annoying how people oversimplify the original trilogy to debase its main plot and what they judge to be immature outrage. Show nested quote +On March 12 2019 05:36 KwarK wrote:
That’s why they started doing this “everyman” hero stuff in the casino subplot I think. They’ve got a stormtrooper with a conscience and a mechanic going round doing shit in a background focused on how the grand affairs are fucking shit up for the little people. That might've worked if the writers understood basic economics, how casinos work, and didn't create a pointless Groucho and Marx routine for its intrepid interlopers. Like many failures in the movie, The Last Jedi tries to skirt through the incongruities by relying on sheer symbolism.
I think the writers fucked up the execution, but I also think what they were attempting, while unpopular with the fans, wasn't illogical.
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I went to see Captain Marvel yesterday and it is by far the worst movie in the MCU. Yes, worse than Iron Man 2 and Thor 2. There was no thrill, cringy dialogue, forced gender bias, no build-up of tension at all and the whole story lacked depth. The whole cinema was dead silent after the ending, everything felt synthetic and forced in this movie. I don't have so high expectations when it comes to MCU movies, because I am very into the overall plot in the MCU universe so I can really just be pleased if one movie tells some interesting small detail about the overall MCU plot.
But this movie failed in so many aspects and even my girlfriend was surprised about all the forced postmodern gender bias bullshit in the story and dialogue, it really ruined the movie.
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But, but... There is that No Doubt song playing while she is kicking ass on a spaceship that doesn't fit at all because? To make the entire audience cringe?
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Forced postmodern gender bias in Captain Marvel? They touch on it being shitty to be a woman in the Air Force like what, three times in the movie and each instance lasts for like a sentence.
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On March 12 2019 19:40 Velr wrote:
But, but... There is that No Doubt song playing while she is kicking ass on a spaceship that doesn't fit at all because? To make the entire audience cringe?
The problem is Kick Ass used Bad Reputation during the Hit Girl fight scene and there wasn’t a 1990s follow up of similar quality.
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On March 12 2019 09:03 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Errr...none of this happened the way you claimed it did. I'm no Star Wars fanatic (my brother roped me into the scene as an adolescent) but it's annoying how people oversimplify the original trilogy to debase its main plot and what they judge to be immature outrage.
this is a very interesting point you bring up. The exact same type of brutal rage against a movie occurred with Superman3 where they tried to shoe-horn in the first ever major black character.
is everyone racist against black people because they thought stand up comic Richard Pryor playing as a computer programmer is a really dumb villain to have in a Superman movie?
Richard Pryor is a decent stand up comic. He doesn't "fit" with General Zod and Lex Luthor. Terence Stamp and Gene Hackman had long standing reputations as ultra serious actors. Richard Pryor was an off-beat, funny as hell guy. He just doesn't fit in the Superman universe. It was just so fucking weird.
Superman3 made 60% of what Superman2 made. Similarly, Episode 8 made about 60% of what Episode 7 made. Suiperman3 and Episode8 were both living off of the good will created by previous movies.
The rage against Star Wars Episode #8 and Superman3 is so guteral and visceral I had a hard time taking it seriously. I thought these guys had to be exaggerating. Could it be anti-black racism against Richard Pryor? Is this why everyone hates Superman3? Then I watched the movie. Man, it was bad. I mean indescribably bad.
Just because a fan base is really nasty, salty to the point of being maudlin doesn't mean they are racist or sexist or WRONG. That is the history lesson Superman3 taught me.
Disney has a chance to make things right by making a good Episode 9 movie. If Star Wars Episode 9 ends up being as bad as "Superman4: Quest For Peace" then Disney will have fucked the Star Wars movie franchise right into the ground. It is halfway fucked into the ground right now because of Episode 8.
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On March 12 2019 22:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2019 09:03 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Errr...none of this happened the way you claimed it did. I'm no Star Wars fanatic (my brother roped me into the scene as an adolescent) but it's annoying how people oversimplify the original trilogy to debase its main plot and what they judge to be immature outrage.
this is a very interesting point you bring up. The exact same type of brutal rage against a movie occurred with Superman3 where they tried to shoe-horn in the first ever major black character. is everyone racist against black people because they thought stand up comic Richard Pryor playing as a computer programmer is a really dumb villain to have in a Superman movie? Richard Pryor is a decent stand up comic. He doesn't "fit" with General Zod and Lex Luthor. Terence Stamp and Gene Hackman had long standing reputations as ultra serious actors. Richard Pryor was an off-beat, funny as hell guy. He just doesn't fit in the Superman universe. It was just so fucking weird. Superman3 made 60% of what Superman2 made. Similarly, Episode 8 made about 60% of what Episode 7 made. Suiperman3 and Episode8 were both living off of the good will created by previous movies. The rage against Star Wars Episode #8 and Superman3 is so guteral and visceral I had a hard time taking it seriously. I thought these guys had to be exaggerating. Could it be anti-black racism against Richard Pryor? Is this why everyone hates Superman3? Then I watched the movie. Man, it was bad. I mean indescribably bad. Just because a fan base is really nasty, salty to the point of being maudlin doesn't mean they are racist or sexist or WRONG. That is the history lesson Superman3 taught me. Disney has a chance to make things right by making a good Episode 9 movie. If Star Wars Episode 9 ends up being as bad as "Superman4: Quest For Peace" then Disney will have fucked the Star Wars movie franchise right into the ground. It is halfway fucked into the ground right now because of Episode 8.
All of these points are reasonable.
Then again, when the only two Marvel movies to be downrated on Rotten Tomatoes before anybody had even seen them were the one with the black guy and the one with the female lead you can certainly make assumptions about the people leaving those reviews.
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On March 12 2019 17:26 InDaHouse wrote:
I went to see Captain Marvel yesterday and it is by far the worst movie in the MCU. Yes, worse than Iron Man 2 and Thor 2. There was no thrill, cringy dialogue, forced gender bias, no build-up of tension at all and the whole story lacked depth. The whole cinema was dead silent after the ending, everything felt synthetic and forced in this movie. I don't have so high expectations when it comes to MCU movies, because I am very into the overall plot in the MCU universe so I can really just be pleased if one movie tells some interesting small detail about the overall MCU plot.
But this movie failed in so many aspects and even my girlfriend was surprised about all the forced postmodern gender bias bullshit in the story and dialogue, it really ruined the movie.
Everyone says there was no character development in the movie for the hero. She is like an Ayn Rand hero. Almost a 2 dimensional projection of the "ideal"....rather than a living, breathing organism. That's the feedback I'm getting.
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The fanbase being loud and nasty doesn't automatically make them wrong, superman 3 just isn't a good movie and a lot of people agree with that.
The last jedi got critical praise, polling done by cinemascore showed high audience satisfaction, etc.
The movie isn't bad, it is not any worse than what one would expect from star wars movies, it had some flaws and other things which were actually done better than in the average star wars movie. Super fans of the material who have their own headcanon disliked it very much for mostly ridiculous reasons, add to that double standards when it comes to male/female characters, other minority groups in general and you'll get internet outrage like we have seen it here.
You mention box office numbers, and yes the last jedi made in fact about 65% of what tfa made. Just like the empire strikes back made only 70% of star wars and return of the jedi even a little less.
Now the question is if disney should rather appeal to the fanatics and that's a valid question, at the end of the day you want to make money and these hardcore super fans are a big part of that revenue (toys, other merchandise).
For most people star wars is just another franchise in the year 2019, no religion (there are a lot of other franchises now to choose from). So maybe disney should just please the zealots, would make monetary sense. Or one has to accept that star wars is simply less relevant to begin with. Probably a mix of both.
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From my understanding the number of zealots is small and loud. Also, enjoyment of art in any form is subjective. The majority of art is trash, so we best learn to appreciate some quality trash. Somewhere out there, there are people who enjoy Superman 3 and think Batman v Superman is great. They are likely not the same group of people.
These discussions get weird when there is dedicated group of people that seem devoted to pushing their dislike for a movie out into the world. I dislike a lot of things in this world. I’ve never felt the need to explain to people who like Law and Order that they soaking in police propaganda that neglects how flawed and unfair the legal system, creating unearned faith in that system that has no grounding in reality. It just isn’t a thing I do. But yet, when it comes to nerd movies, it is the new hot hobby.
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On March 12 2019 23:02 Plansix wrote: Somewhere out there, there are people who enjoy Superman 3 and think Batman v Superman is great.
my gf and i know very little about these comic book universes. We went into Batman v. Superman blind. We liked it. I then got into a discussion with a hardcore Superman fan who I've known for 20+ years. We know each other very well. He is very calm and very soft spoken and has yelled at me maybe 5 times over 20 years.
3 minutes into the debate he was yelling at me about how they shouldn't kill off Superman with a character who didn't get his own separate 2 hour movie dedicated to him. it was scarey.. i was ready to hide under a table. LOLOL.
we are still friends.. its just funny how these movies can divide people over silly issues.
What can i say.. i liked Batman v. Superman. It did have a couple of cringe moments. But meh, I guess I've committed the crime of not knowing enough about all the backstories of these comic books.
If my 20+ year friend and I had an structured debate that was open to the public about the quality of the "Batman v. Superman" movie he'd win that debate by a landslide. He knows 1000 times more about it than I do.
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Superman 3 is my favourite Superman movie.
Mind you I watched it when I was like 6 years old so that might be why.
Also all the other ones are shit.
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The Jerry Seinfeld comic book hero debates are the absolute best over.
+ Show Spoiler +
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This controversy felt pretty constructed and blown out of the wather anyway. Outside of some horrible youtubers and here, i don't remember seeing much about it anywhere?
Larsons Statements were stupid, but not really outrageous but if you listened to them with no ill intent, they were allright, poorly worded but not outrageous or anything. To me this felt like very artifically created outrage...
The actual problem is that the character in the movie is very boring and uninspired... Like the whole movie.
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On March 12 2019 23:36 Velr wrote:
This controversy felt pretty constructed and blown out of the wather anyway. Outside of some horrible youtubers and here, i don't remember seeing much about it anywhere?
Larsons Statements were stupid, but not really outrageous but if you listened to them with no ill intent, they were allright, poorly worded but not outrageous or anything. To me this felt like very artifically created outrage...
The actual problem is that the character in the movie is very boring and uninspired... Like the whole movie.
I haven't seen it yet but yeah, this is what I was hoping wouldn't happen.
Marvel movies have always had good characterization, without that they are nothing.
Even Captain America had a character you could define and predict and empathize with and that guy sucks.
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Captain Marvel in the comics is 100% on brand for me and my bullshit, so I’m pretty sure I will enjoy the film.
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Spiderman 3 with Tobey Maguire is my favorite Spiderman
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On March 12 2019 23:49 IgnE wrote:
Spiderman 3 with Tobey Maguire is my favorite Spiderman
Nicholas Hammond was the best Spiderman. 45 year old college students are cool.
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Yeah he really looks like a young, athletic, crime-fighting vigilante:
![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Nicholas_Hammond_Amazing_Spider-Man_1977.JPG)
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EPT
