EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/XaFug5z.png)
And if you'd told me back in 2012 that Sony was going to make the best comic book movie of the decade I'd have buried you in the backyard.
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Movie Discussion! - Page 434
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hexhaven
Finland931 Posts
And if you'd told me back in 2012 that Sony was going to make the best comic book movie of the decade I'd have buried you in the backyard. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17261 Posts
On March 12 2019 22:49 The_Red_Viper wrote: add to that double standards when it comes to male/female characters, other minority groups in general and you'll get internet outrage like we have seen it here. Wait, what? Hating on gender or race as the sole reason is not really a thing any more (despite what some people might think). You had strong female leads that are loved way back in the 70's, you had black superhero leads in the 90's. The same crowd that loved Wonder Woman thought Captain Marvel was meh at best. How is that double standards? The same crowd that loved Blade thought Black Panther was meh at best. How is that double standards? Brie Larson is really dumb too. Her super-cringe comments about 40-year old white dudes being critics for movies that aren't for them and yet the same dudes scored Tangerine at 96% - a movie about black trans-gender prostitutes, definitely not a movie for them and definitely more woke movie than Captain Marvel is, even The Green Book, being about a gay black man won the oscars. The bottom line being that people don't hate female leads or people of color. What they hate is dumb IP propaganda and bad movies. I think all this backlash and stupid drama could be avoided if companies and media stopped with the stupid political advertising. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4786 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 13 2019 02:07 Manit0u wrote: Wait, what? Hating on gender or race as the sole reason is not really a thing any more (despite what some people might think). You had strong female leads that are loved way back in the 70's, you had black superhero leads in the 90's. The same crowd that loved Wonder Woman thought Captain Marvel was meh at best. How is that double standards? The same crowd that loved Blade thought Black Panther was meh at best. How is that double standards? Brie Larson is really dumb too. Her super-cringe comments about 40-year old white dudes being critics for movies that aren't for them and yet the same dudes scored Tangerine at 96% - a movie about black trans-gender prostitutes, definitely not a movie for them and definitely more woke movie than Captain Marvel is, even The Green Book, being about a gay black man won the oscars. The bottom line being that people don't hate female leads or people of color. What they hate is dumb IP propaganda and bad movies. I think all this backlash and stupid drama could be avoided if companies and media stopped with the stupid political advertising. Nobody said it is the sole reason, it is a really big reason still though. The double standard is that other mediocre films which have white, male leads get a pass while mediocre movies which have female/poc leads get attacked instantly. Not only on the quality level either, they get attacked for purely existing, as if it would be such a big problem to make political statements with movies when it doesn't just perpetuate the status quo. Brie larson gets attacked for trying to make people aware of a diversity problem in hollywood or the entertainment industry as a whole, how dare a woman speak about things like that! Now was her phrasing the best? No, but focusing on that part and neglecting the context around it is laughable, exactly what the attackers do though. Also funny you mention films like tangerine, while it was a critical success this isn't really a movie most people have even heard of, ofc there is no outrage about it. Green book was hardly about the "gay black man", he was a token character for the most part, the movie was about the white guy overcoming his racism because ??? If your point was that white, male critics can appreciate all kinds of movies then i certainly agree with you, but again, focusing on that phrasing of brie larson instead of looking at the bigger picture is questionable. Now the positive in all of this is that it's mostly a problem of the internet, loud crybabies who feel threatened by other groups of people also being represented. But it worries me that some of these post in this very thread  | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51487 Posts
On March 13 2019 01:33 Plansix wrote: That movie was so good and laugh out loud funny. And I love they managed to find a way to bring mid 30s, kind of a failure Peter Parker to the big screen and make him super endearing. This x100, exactly how i felt watching it and such. Amazing film, had some genius directors behind it as well, was just a glorious piece for any Spiderman/super hero fan | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10716 Posts
Don't listen to the assholes that youtube feeds you, they are obviously a fringe group. I personally hate on The Last Jedi because its an absolute mess, typecasting, while noticeable, wasn't the issue at all. The anti SJW crowd is just cringy. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On March 12 2019 23:02 Plansix wrote: These discussions get weird when there is dedicated group of people that seem devoted to pushing their dislike for a movie out into the world. I dislike a lot of things in this world. I’ve never felt the need to explain to people who like Law and Order that they soaking in police propaganda that neglects how flawed and unfair the legal system, creating unearned faith in that system that has no grounding in reality. It just isn’t a thing I do. But yet, when it comes to nerd movies, it is the new hot hobby. For that analogy to work, we'd have to assume that the makers of Law and Order bought up IPs to things you used to love, reworked them into pieces of police propaganda, and aggressively marketed them so that you see and hear about it everywhere. I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't become vocal if that were to happen. And doubly so if when you criticized the propaganda for what it is, people were to dismiss and caricature you as being irrationally anti-police. I don't doubt that there a lot of people that just jump on hate bandwagons. But let's not act like people who once enjoyed their niche communities don't have any grievance against the likes of Disney buying old IPs that the communities were built around and shitting all over them. The way you use the term "nerd movies" brings up an interesting point: both Star Wars and Marvel Comics used to appeal mostly to outcasts in some way, people who were "nerdy" and didn't quite fit in. Now it seems that those people who found havens in those universes are once again reviled and uncool but now in their own hobby. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 13 2019 04:31 Starlightsun wrote: For that analogy to work, we'd have to assume that the makers of Law and Order bought up IPs to things you used to love, reworked them into pieces of police propaganda, and aggressively marketed them so that you see and hear about it everywhere. I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't become vocal if that were to happen. And doubly so if when you criticized the propaganda for what it is, people were to dismiss and caricature you as being irrationally anti-police. I don't doubt that there a lot of people that just jump on hate bandwagons. But let's not act like people who once enjoyed their niche communities don't have any grievance against the likes of Disney buying old IPs that the communities were built around and shitting all over them. The way you use the term "nerd movies" brings up an interesting point: both Star Wars and Marvel Comics used to appeal mostly to outcasts in some way, people who were "nerdy" and didn't quite fit in. Now it seems that those people who found havens in those universes are once again reviled and uncool but now in their own hobby. Frank Herbert’s kid wrote some terrible Dune books, but I don’t feel the need to spend time complaining how he ruined one of my favorite sci-fi novels. Cameron made a kinda trashy Alita movie(to be clear, I like me so trash) and I could complain how he scooped up the IP and held onto one of my favorite comics since the 1990s. But, like, why? I loved all this stuff when I was a kid and I like seeing people do new stuff with in as an adult. There are plenty of things in this world that I used to enjoy, but don’t any more for any number of reasons. I think it is really counterproductive to dwell it. And that seems to be the focus on a lot of this discussion around things like Marvel and Star Wars. Also, Lucas was ruining Star Wars long before Disney and in more spectacular fashion. And fans were shitty back then too. Let us not forget the prolonged harassment of a child actor for the crime of being a child in a Star Wars movie. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17261 Posts
On March 13 2019 02:11 Uldridge wrote: You've just watched the RLM review of Captain Marvel I want to assume. Haha, didn't know they did a review of it already. Funny they brought up Tangerine too (and also Moonlight, of which I have completely forgotten). | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16711 Posts
I'm lovin' this "empty theater conspiracy theory". This is awesome. LOL. Maybe Spiderman2 only made $20 million and they just pumped bazillions of dollars into Spiderman3 for shits and giggles. Maybe Tobey Magurie's Spiderman was all 1 big lie!  Regarding Captain Marvel, I don't think the media has gone to "great lengths" to "protect" this Captain Marvel movie. Its got a 64% on Metacritic. Even the most "political lefties" are calling it an average//ok movie. Most of the people I know are saying it is an OK movie. The "political lefties" are not bullshitting and calling it a great movie. The only thing I noticed is that Rotten Tomatoes did 1 small gesture to thwart negativity. That is about it. Maybe reviewers have BS-ed about movies in the past.. i dunno. But it doesn't look like they are bullshitting about this one. https://www.metacritic.com/movie/captain-marvel On March 13 2019 02:37 The_Red_Viper wrote: Nobody said it is the sole reason, it is a really big reason still though. The double standard is that other mediocre films which have white, male leads get a pass while mediocre movies which have female/poc leads get attacked instantly. Not only on the quality level either, they get attacked for purely existing, as if it would be such a big problem to make political statements with movies when it doesn't just perpetuate the status quo. Nah, i don't think this is what is going on. You'd need to more precisely define your terms though to have a deeper more meaningful discussion. Otherwise it'll just be Archie Bunker and George Jefferson arguing with each other in their front yards. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On March 12 2019 10:57 KwarK wrote: I think the writers fucked up the execution, but I also think what they were attempting, while unpopular with the fans, wasn't illogical. More than anything else, it exposed Rian Johnson's primary weakness as a director. He has a shoddy grasp of character and narrative compared to his contemporaries, preferring to experiment with form and genre. Besides his reputation as an amicable director who embraces cinematic quirks, he's an odd choice to direct a Star Wars movie. The series is built upon likable yet archetypal characters, a nostalgic sense of morality and social convention mixed with cool tech, and sufficiently deep world-building that people could get attached to the universe even if they didn't like the movies. Most complaints over The Last Jedi concerned missing cause-and-effect relationships, world-building inconsistencies, and the film's inability to communicate themes beyond the most anvilicious dialogue. It's startling Johnson didn't tackle these meat-and-potatoes concerns head-on during the initial drafts. On March 13 2019 01:22 hexhaven wrote: And if you'd told me back in 2012 that Sony was going to make the best comic book movie of the decade I'd have buried you in the backyard. That's stratospheric praise for Venom. On March 12 2019 22:49 The_Red_Viper wrote: Now the question is if disney should rather appeal to the fanatics and that's a valid question, at the end of the day you want to make money and these hardcore super fans are a big part of that revenue (toys, other merchandise). For most people star wars is just another franchise in the year 2019, no religion (there are a lot of other franchises now to choose from). So maybe disney should just please the zealots, would make monetary sense. Or one has to accept that star wars is simply less relevant to begin with. Probably a mix of both. Accepting that would further mean admitting the original acquisition of Lucasfilm was a bust. Disney has staked a lot on Star Wars not only being a continually popular series, but a pop culture juggernaut. What would happen to all the inventory stashed away in backrooms, the parks under construction in Anaheim and Orlando, the multiple films per year project that they will inevitably attempt to reinstate? Even Iger would be recalcitrant to acknowledge the disastrous extent they've bungled what should've been a financial home run. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17261 Posts
You're joking right? Obviously he meant the Spider-Verse... And seriously, I wouldn't mind more of such. All those live-action superhero movies are starting to wear me down. | ||
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WarSame
Canada1950 Posts
On March 13 2019 04:54 Plansix wrote: Frank Herbert’s kid wrote some terrible Dune books, but I don’t feel the need to spend time complaining how he ruined one of my favorite sci-fi novels. Cameron made a kinda trashy Alita movie(to be clear, I like me so trash) and I could complain how he scooped up the IP and held onto one of my favorite comics since the 1990s. But, like, why? I loved all this stuff when I was a kid and I like seeing people do new stuff with in as an adult. There are plenty of things in this world that I used to enjoy, but don’t any more for any number of reasons. I think it is really counterproductive to dwell it. And that seems to be the focus on a lot of this discussion around things like Marvel and Star Wars. Also, Lucas was ruining Star Wars long before Disney and in more spectacular fashion. And fans were shitty back then too. Let us not forget the prolonged harassment of a child actor for the crime of being a child in a Star Wars movie. My introduction to Dune was through his kid's books and I went back and read the originals. They're like 2 different series. There's pretty much no similarity between them. I don't think they were crappy, though. | ||
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hexhaven
Finland931 Posts
In 10 years it'll be impossible to tell if Venom came out in 2018 or 2004. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 13 2019 10:28 CosmicSpiral wrote: Accepting that would further mean admitting the original acquisition of Lucasfilm was a bust. Disney has staked a lot on Star Wars not only being a continually popular series, but a pop culture juggernaut. What would happen to all the inventory stashed away in backrooms, the parks under construction in Anaheim and Orlando, the multiple films per year project that they will inevitably attempt to reinstate? Even Iger would be recalcitrant to acknowledge the disastrous extent they've bungled what should've been a financial home run. Well it was no bust though, they made their money back already and future projects will most likely make them a ton as well. Yes solo's performance wasn't great, but even that one made them money. While toy sales seem to be down, it's still doing well by any reasonable standard (now ofc these corporations only want to grow each and every year so there is that). It's just not the 80s anymore, or even early 2000s. There is entertainment everywhere right now, so many different franchises and options. Marvel is the big boy now, not star wars. The real test will be the new star wars sagas anyway, how will star wars do when there is no link to either luke skywalker or darth vader. If they wanted to play it safe they would do content around luke until the end of time (and trying to please the oldschool fans who are now in their 30s, 40s and 50s), instead they give D&D (game of thrones) and rian johnson himself a carte blanche with these projects. Will be interesting! | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16711 Posts
On March 13 2019 22:05 The_Red_Viper wrote: Well it was no bust though, they made their money back already and future projects will most likely make them a ton as well. Yes solo's performance wasn't great, but even that one made them money. "made money" If you invest several billion dollars then profiting $50 million in a year is a miserable failure. It'll take a lot more than the couple of sentences in here to prove Solo was a financial success. And , a single movie "commercially succeeding" as a sequel to a bunch of great movies doesn't prove the movie did its job. Superman3 was a commercial success and it generated 60% of what Superman2 generated. That movie was the beginning of the end of teh Superman franchise. Was episode 8 the equivalent of the Empire Strikes Back like the optimists want to say? Was Episode 8 the equivalent of Superman3 as pessimists might try to infer? In time, we'll find out the answer. How are the toy sales for the new Star Wars characters? How is the demand in EA video games to play the new characters? The bargain bins I've seen... are an ocean of Rose Tico action figures. Is there a Rose Tico in the EA Star Wars game? Initially, what characters did EA attempt to put behind a paywall? the new characters or the old ones? Commercial Success Or Failure? Bungie says the Destiny franchise is meeting commercial/financial expectations and they are happy with its financial results. ATVI says Desetiny did not meet its financial/commercial expectations. Due to the split up we have exact figures on the franchise's profits in 2018. Was it a commercial success? it depends who you ask. Both sides have giant spreadsheets filled with dozens of #s to back up their answer to the question. Relating this back to Disney Star Wars: It is difficult to say whether or not Disney Star Wars has been a commercial success so far. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
The toy sales went down, but were still the 2nd highest for them in 2017, i totally get that the expectations are to always grow, but that is where reality has to kick in and people in power have to realize that star wars isn't that special anymore. In the coming years they will make a fuckton of money with that franchise, even if it is less than they would want to. As i said, i think the real test won't even be episode 9, that will do well no matter what. Will make 1B +. What about the new sagas though, the ones where there probably won't be any connection to the skywalkers in any way. It is risky, but it could also just be what they need, build a new mythology around new places and characters for the kids of today, not the kids of 30 years ago. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17261 Posts
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