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[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 760

Forum Index > Media & Entertainment
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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
May 03 2013 14:55 GMT
#15181
I thought the issue with the guy who fought vs bronn is that much heavy armour isn't a good thing in a fight in open ground, where you can never catch the opponent. In army vs army you have no space to manoevre or run. I thought with light armour and a shield he'd have a huge advantage.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 15:01:23
May 03 2013 14:57 GMT
#15182
On May 03 2013 23:16 Dfgj wrote:
That's one hell of a claim.

I don't think so, years of training under the best swordsman in westeros who was dedicated to her training, in a style specialized for agile fighters in single combat? Combine with arya's natural martial talent (she's far more proficient than bran at a younger age). I have no doubt she could take on the best after years of that training.
On May 03 2013 23:55 Slayer91 wrote:
I thought the issue with the guy who fought vs bronn is that much heavy armour isn't a good thing in a fight in open ground, where you can never catch the opponent. In army vs army you have no space to manoevre or run. I thought with light armour and a shield he'd have a huge advantage.

also don't forget that bronn kept running around the guy and used the pillars to block strikes, and that the guy was young and eager to try to prove himself.

On May 03 2013 23:52 -Archangel- wrote:
Fencing swords are pretty useless against armor. Yes, a real expert might find weak spots against untrained troops and defeat them (but they would defeat them with a wooden sword as well ) but against a trained knight with any decent skill and good armor and a shield (not the kind that idiot used against Bronn in S1) he would die before the would kill the knight.

In our world people only started using fencing swords when armors were no longer used. And armors were not used because of guns that ignored armor and took little skill to use compared to crossbows or bows so any peasant with little to no training could kill heavily armored knights. No guns so far means armor still rules the day and fencing swords are useless

Someone said that Needle could kill a man in armor if she wasn't careful. Needle isn't a fencing sword persay its a real weapon.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 15:09:57
May 03 2013 15:04 GMT
#15183
On May 03 2013 23:50 Slayer91 wrote:
I just felt looking at how huge the hound was that the weight advantage would translate in an easy win. It didn't look in the show and I know its only a TV show where weight doesn't matter at all but in real swordfighting would you really be able to parry a blow from someone twice your size?

I guess there might be trouble getting your weight behind a strike I dunno.

If you parry near the hilt vs the upper part of the blade, then yes, because of leverage.

On May 03 2013 23:57 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2013 23:16 Dfgj wrote:
That's one hell of a claim.

I don't think so, years of training under the best swordsman in westeros who was dedicated to her training, in a style specialized for agile fighters in single combat? Combine with arya's natural martial talent (she's far more proficient than bran at a younger age). I have no doubt she could take on the best after years of that training.

All the other best fighters are also training, and have been for years. There's no evidence he is the best swordsman in westeros.

After years, she'd still be a little girl, and that's not good against someone like the Clegaines or Brienne who use force and have the stamina to match it.

Someone said that Needle could kill a man in armor if she wasn't careful. Needle isn't a fencing sword persay its a real weapon.

Fencing swords (at least the epee and sabre) ARE real weapons - the Olympic versions just don't have tips or edges. It doesn't make them great against armored people, though as we've seen Needle will easily puncture a person.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 15:07:24
May 03 2013 15:07 GMT
#15184
double, my bad
Recognizable
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Netherlands1552 Posts
May 03 2013 15:08 GMT
#15185
I wonder what will happen about Jaimie's swordfighting skills.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 15:15:27
May 03 2013 15:14 GMT
#15186
On May 03 2013 23:57 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2013 23:16 Dfgj wrote:
That's one hell of a claim.

I don't think so, years of training under the best swordsman in westeros who was dedicated to her training, in a style specialized for agile fighters in single combat? Combine with arya's natural martial talent (she's far more proficient than bran at a younger age). I have no doubt she could take on the best after years of that training.
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2013 23:55 Slayer91 wrote:
I thought the issue with the guy who fought vs bronn is that much heavy armour isn't a good thing in a fight in open ground, where you can never catch the opponent. In army vs army you have no space to manoevre or run. I thought with light armour and a shield he'd have a huge advantage.

also don't forget that bronn kept running around the guy and used the pillars to block strikes, and that the guy was young and eager to try to prove himself.

Show nested quote +
On May 03 2013 23:52 -Archangel- wrote:
Fencing swords are pretty useless against armor. Yes, a real expert might find weak spots against untrained troops and defeat them (but they would defeat them with a wooden sword as well ) but against a trained knight with any decent skill and good armor and a shield (not the kind that idiot used against Bronn in S1) he would die before the would kill the knight.

In our world people only started using fencing swords when armors were no longer used. And armors were not used because of guns that ignored armor and took little skill to use compared to crossbows or bows so any peasant with little to no training could kill heavily armored knights. No guns so far means armor still rules the day and fencing swords are useless

Someone said that Needle could kill a man in armor if she wasn't careful. Needle isn't a fencing sword persay its a real weapon.


A kitchen knife can kill a man, so you shouldn't wave that thing around. Doesn't mean it's a good weapon versus armored foes. A fencing sword can also easily kill a man in armor if you manage to hit the right spots. Specially in a fantasy world, it's common to see heroes abusing their agility to beat foes with these kind of weapons, but in that case they ussually outclass them by a pretty good margin. There really is no reason to believe she would be such an absurdly good fighter with a few years of training.
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
May 03 2013 15:15 GMT
#15187
On May 04 2013 00:08 Recognizable wrote:
I wonder what will happen about Jaimie's swordfighting skills.

Someone will need to give him hand with that.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 15:18:18
May 03 2013 15:16 GMT
#15188
On May 04 2013 00:04 Dfgj wrote:

Fencing swords (at least the epee and sabre) ARE real weapons - the Olympic versions just don't have tips or edges. It doesn't make them great against armored people, though as we've seen Needle will easily puncture a person.

I think my judgement of water dancing and its power is skewed by the game of thrones rpg. but i think a water dancer could beat pretty much any fighter in westeros if given the opportunity. and Arya is naturally very gifted as a fighter we see this right from episode 1 on. when she had been training at swordfighting with a butcher's kid for less than a week she was able to disarm the prince who has had military training for a while. and was much older.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 15:23:58
May 03 2013 15:23 GMT
#15189
On May 04 2013 00:16 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2013 00:04 Dfgj wrote:

Fencing swords (at least the epee and sabre) ARE real weapons - the Olympic versions just don't have tips or edges. It doesn't make them great against armored people, though as we've seen Needle will easily puncture a person.

I think my judgement of water dancing and its power is skewed by the game of thrones rpg. but i think a water dancer could beat pretty much any fighter in westeros if given the opportunity. and Arya is naturally very gifted as a fighter we see this right from episode 1 on. when she had been training at swordfighting with a butcher's kid for less than a week she was able to disarm the prince who has had military training for a while. and was much older.

Well, but then you are using knowledge that is not in the show and may not even be in the books, it may not be canon. I don't know if the RPG setting is fully approved by Martin, since it's a game you often have to change the balance of power to make things more interesting. The show tells us nothing about water dancing. About Joffrey, it didn't look like he was that good and he probally got caught by surprise. Arya is definatelly better than you would expect from someone that age, but from that to saying she would become the best fighter in westeros is a pretty big stretch.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
May 03 2013 15:25 GMT
#15190
On May 04 2013 00:23 SKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2013 00:16 PrinceXizor wrote:
On May 04 2013 00:04 Dfgj wrote:

Fencing swords (at least the epee and sabre) ARE real weapons - the Olympic versions just don't have tips or edges. It doesn't make them great against armored people, though as we've seen Needle will easily puncture a person.

I think my judgement of water dancing and its power is skewed by the game of thrones rpg. but i think a water dancer could beat pretty much any fighter in westeros if given the opportunity. and Arya is naturally very gifted as a fighter we see this right from episode 1 on. when she had been training at swordfighting with a butcher's kid for less than a week she was able to disarm the prince who has had military training for a while. and was much older.

Well, but then you are using knowledge that is not in the show and may not even be in the books, it may not be canon. I don't know if the RPG setting is fully approved by Martin, since it's a game you often have to change the balance of power to make things more interesting. The show tells us nothing about water dancing. About Joffrey, it didn't look like he was that good and he probally got caught by surprise. Arya is definatelly better than you would expect from someone that age, but from that to saying she would become the best fighter in westeros is a pretty big stretch.

^ one of.

i said one of the best. Like Brienne Ned Jaime Bronn Loras Clegaines. One of the best. any them could beat the other with favorable circumstances in their favor.
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
May 03 2013 15:27 GMT
#15191
Sir Meryn Trant was not at all scared of Syrio and he was apparently the best water dancer. No one claims that Meryn is even a great fighter.
Doctorbeat
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands13241 Posts
May 03 2013 15:32 GMT
#15192
On May 04 2013 00:27 hzflank wrote:
Sir Meryn Trant was not at all scared of Syrio and he was apparently the best water dancer. No one claims that Meryn is even a great fighter.


Well to be honest Syrio was only armed with a wooden sword... If I was fully armed fighting someone with a wooden blade I wouldn't be afraid either.

I do think people tend to overrate Syrio a bit. Not very much, it's just that we haven't actually seen him fight for real with real weapons against strong foes. It makes it very hard to rank his skill.

I'd rank him above Ned or Bronn, but way under Jaime/Robert/Barristan/Sandor/Gregor. This is assuming all people are in their prime of course.
- TEAM LIQUID - doctorbeat on LoL
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 15:35:56
May 03 2013 15:34 GMT
#15193
On May 04 2013 00:27 hzflank wrote:
Sir Meryn Trant was not at all scared of Syrio and he was apparently the best water dancer. No one claims that Meryn is even a great fighter.

He thought he was a dancng master though.
And Meryn was armored and had a real sword against one made from wood. If he was scared in that case that would be really strange.

(tbh I think these "best sword fighter" discussions are stupid as hell)
Off-season = best season
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
May 03 2013 15:37 GMT
#15194
On May 04 2013 00:27 hzflank wrote:
Sir Meryn Trant was not at all scared of Syrio and he was apparently the best water dancer. No one claims that Meryn is even a great fighter.

Don't forget that he was told to go capture arya from her "dancing instructor". Westeros doesn't seem to know too much about water dancing as a fighting type. but yeah, an unarmored opponent with a battered wooden sword against plate mail and greatsword.
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 15:39:13
May 03 2013 15:37 GMT
#15195
We really don't have enough information for any kind of power rank. If the show decided to say X fight was the best or would grow to be the best, it's not like we could deny it, but that also means we really have no way to tell how good they actually are or would be.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
May 03 2013 15:38 GMT
#15196
On May 04 2013 00:16 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2013 00:04 Dfgj wrote:

Fencing swords (at least the epee and sabre) ARE real weapons - the Olympic versions just don't have tips or edges. It doesn't make them great against armored people, though as we've seen Needle will easily puncture a person.

I think my judgement of water dancing and its power is skewed by the game of thrones rpg. but i think a water dancer could beat pretty much any fighter in westeros if given the opportunity. and Arya is naturally very gifted as a fighter we see this right from episode 1 on. when she had been training at swordfighting with a butcher's kid for less than a week she was able to disarm the prince who has had military training for a while. and was much older.

She hits him from behind with a stick, gets knocked down and his blade at her throat, then Nymeria bites Joffrey's hand.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
May 03 2013 15:41 GMT
#15197
On May 04 2013 00:38 Dfgj wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2013 00:16 PrinceXizor wrote:
On May 04 2013 00:04 Dfgj wrote:

Fencing swords (at least the epee and sabre) ARE real weapons - the Olympic versions just don't have tips or edges. It doesn't make them great against armored people, though as we've seen Needle will easily puncture a person.

I think my judgement of water dancing and its power is skewed by the game of thrones rpg. but i think a water dancer could beat pretty much any fighter in westeros if given the opportunity. and Arya is naturally very gifted as a fighter we see this right from episode 1 on. when she had been training at swordfighting with a butcher's kid for less than a week she was able to disarm the prince who has had military training for a while. and was much older.

She hits him from behind with a stick, gets knocked down and his blade at her throat, then Nymeria bites Joffrey's hand.

effective is effective. shes also a much better archer than bran.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 15:49:40
May 03 2013 15:47 GMT
#15198
On May 04 2013 00:41 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2013 00:38 Dfgj wrote:
On May 04 2013 00:16 PrinceXizor wrote:
On May 04 2013 00:04 Dfgj wrote:

Fencing swords (at least the epee and sabre) ARE real weapons - the Olympic versions just don't have tips or edges. It doesn't make them great against armored people, though as we've seen Needle will easily puncture a person.

I think my judgement of water dancing and its power is skewed by the game of thrones rpg. but i think a water dancer could beat pretty much any fighter in westeros if given the opportunity. and Arya is naturally very gifted as a fighter we see this right from episode 1 on. when she had been training at swordfighting with a butcher's kid for less than a week she was able to disarm the prince who has had military training for a while. and was much older.

She hits him from behind with a stick, gets knocked down and his blade at her throat, then Nymeria bites Joffrey's hand.

effective is effective. shes also a much better archer than bran.

Hitting someone who isn't looking at you, and then having a Direwolf to sick on them, does not make you a better fighter than someone. It doesn't speak to your fighting ability at all, actually. It certainly doesn't mean you're able to disarm someone. It does show that gargantuan wolves that take children by surprise are quite effective, I guess.

Being better than Bran isn't any sort of real metric either, because for all we know, Bran could be exceptionally bad.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
May 03 2013 16:34 GMT
#15199
On May 04 2013 00:47 Dfgj wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2013 00:41 PrinceXizor wrote:
On May 04 2013 00:38 Dfgj wrote:
On May 04 2013 00:16 PrinceXizor wrote:
On May 04 2013 00:04 Dfgj wrote:

Fencing swords (at least the epee and sabre) ARE real weapons - the Olympic versions just don't have tips or edges. It doesn't make them great against armored people, though as we've seen Needle will easily puncture a person.

I think my judgement of water dancing and its power is skewed by the game of thrones rpg. but i think a water dancer could beat pretty much any fighter in westeros if given the opportunity. and Arya is naturally very gifted as a fighter we see this right from episode 1 on. when she had been training at swordfighting with a butcher's kid for less than a week she was able to disarm the prince who has had military training for a while. and was much older.

She hits him from behind with a stick, gets knocked down and his blade at her throat, then Nymeria bites Joffrey's hand.

effective is effective. shes also a much better archer than bran.

Hitting someone who isn't looking at you, and then having a Direwolf to sick on them, does not make you a better fighter than someone. It doesn't speak to your fighting ability at all, actually. It certainly doesn't mean you're able to disarm someone. It does show that gargantuan wolves that take children by surprise are quite effective, I guess.

Being better than Bran isn't any sort of real metric either, because for all we know, Bran could be exceptionally bad.

now you are just arguing to argue. there is no point speaking to you.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-03 16:42:01
May 03 2013 16:41 GMT
#15200
He really isn't. Arya hasn't proved herself to be particularly skilled in any way and syrio hasn't proven himself either. Why woul you assume they're so amazing?

The fact that he cited valid points and you just ignore them and go ad hominem I think is pathetic.
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