On May 01 2012 08:24 Bellazuk wrote: Am I the only huge fan of Stark's family ? It seems despite all other family , they have been loyal and true lovers between each other. Stannis truly said that Ned died to tell the truth about his right to reclaim the throne, so I don't think Stannis will be an enemy of the Starks and I can't follow Theon, his family treat him like hes shit, why would he become a traitor to Robb who consider him as a brother and whos the king of the north now, this doesnt make sense to me.
Because as Theon, Ward of Winterfell he is nothing, treated almost as poorly as Jon Snow. Still pretty good treatment for a ward, but he was essentially a glorified hostage for the better part of his life. Even though they don't respect him yet, he is a Prince among the Ironborn, and if he can convince them he's worth of his father's crown (by taking the northern capital) he hopes it will all fall into place. He's a fairly arrogant and egotistical fellow (they have definitely established this), so it makes since that he will make the move that improves him the most.
He also had an idealised view of what it meant to be son of a lord based upon Robb's relationship with Ned/Winterfell. He sees the respect Robb gets, the leadership of men and getting proclaimed King in the North and while he's a friend to Robb he thinks these are things that are denied to him. He thought he'd land in Pyke and be treated like he's seen the son of the lord being treated his entire life, his ego is built around an idea which was Eddard being nice rather than the reality on the Iron Islands. He'd either have to abandon the entire identity he's built around himself growing up and be nothing but Robb's friend or attempt to become the man he feels he deserves to be.
Pretty deep there. One also has to consider that Theon thinks he is entitled to alot of things, and like said in the last episode he has to earn it. Something he hasn't realised until now. He is as power hungry as Cersei and arrogant to boot. Robb has earned peoples respect, he even had to make the Greatjon bend the knee. Theon hasn't earned shit but that doesn't mean his family should treat him like hes dirt either. An interesting character whom i however think is rotten to the core, he'll do anything to recieve recognition from his father but not for the recognition itself, but for power and respect from the masses.
Oh, come now. I think you're being a little too harsh on poor Theon. He's really just confused, and has a sort of identity crises. He was clearly torn between serving Robb and his father. Remember when he wrote out the letter to Robb, but ended up burning it? The decision was not as easy for Theon as you may think.
Also, keep in mind. Where was he when he made the decision? I think if he had stood between Robb and Balon on equal footing, he would have chosen Robb. But the problem is, he was stuck out on an island in the middle of fucking nowhere, surrounded by Greyjoy vassals. He couldn't simply tell his father, "you know what old man? I'm out of here. I don't like your way of doing things, I'm heading back to the Starks." Travel was not as simple back then, and its very likely he wouldn't have been able to get away if he tried. So his geographic position kind of swayed where he had to commit. Imagine if he had been with Robb, and his father had written him a private letter telling him to come back to the islands so they could rebel against the starks. I'm pretty sure Theon would have decided "fuck that", and warned Robb. Fact of the matter is, he had no idea what to expect when he was going to visit his father, and he got caught up in a mess he clearly did not want to be in.
On May 01 2012 15:14 Hoban wrote: I'm sure she will learn. We were all that stupid at her age (I think she is "supposed" to be 14-15 at this point). I'm pretty sure if she continues her course she will either a) die a horrible horrible death or b) become a war hardened warrior queen with countless legions of fanatically faithful warriors at her back, and 3 dragons to boot. She is basically being thrown into a world with a goal and no direction and she is forced to find a way. As she matures and learns, it will make her stronger. Or....you know....the horrible horrible death thing.
That's something that keeps escaping me as I watch, and read (I'm just catching up in the books, to the events that are happening in the show now)... that Theon is 20, Robb and Daenarys are 15, Sansa is only twelve (that makes her character MUCH more acceptable, imo. I hate her parts, until I remember that) Bran is nine and Arya is seven. WOW.
Was there any point to Rikon Stark mashing the walnuts when Bran is listening to the petition from the guy needing the orphan boys to help tend his flock?
No hidden meanings? He's just becoming a little shit?
Was there any point to Rikon Stark mashing the walnuts when Bran is listening to the petition from the guy needing the orphan boys to help tend his flock?
No hidden meanings? He's just becoming a little shit?
I reckon it was just Rickon being a young boy that's bored. Lots of folks have requests for Bran to listen to, but there's not much for Rickon to do. I also suspect that the writers wanted to remind the audience about Rickon, since he's still around but doesn't have much screen time. Smashing walnuts while people are talking certainly makes you notice him.
Was there any point to Rikon Stark mashing the walnuts when Bran is listening to the petition from the guy needing the orphan boys to help tend his flock?
No hidden meanings? He's just becoming a little shit?
You mean other than showing that Winterfell atm is actually ruled by little children?...
Was there any point to Rikon Stark mashing the walnuts when Bran is listening to the petition from the guy needing the orphan boys to help tend his flock?
No hidden meanings? He's just becoming a little shit?
I think it's supposed to remind you that he exists (Rickon who?). Also, if you remember from all his scenes, he's a wild one. Without parents, it makes sense that he's so anti-social/wild.
Was there any point to Rikon Stark mashing the walnuts when Bran is listening to the petition from the guy needing the orphan boys to help tend his flock?
No hidden meanings? He's just becoming a little shit?
On May 01 2012 12:36 Darkchylde wrote: Just for clarification, if a bastard has no right to the throne, what the reasoning behind all the bastard killing by Cersei's orders?
It's not that they have claim to the throne it's the fact that all of Roberts bastards look just like him, yet here sits Joffery, golden hair, green eyes, looking everything like his mother and uh....uncle. The bastards, just by virtue of being alive and walking around, only leads more credence to the 'story' that Stannis has told everyone about the incestuous relations in the Lannister house.
On May 01 2012 15:14 Hoban wrote: I'm sure she will learn. We were all that stupid at her age (I think she is "supposed" to be 14-15 at this point). I'm pretty sure if she continues her course she will either a) die a horrible horrible death or b) become a war hardened warrior queen with countless legions of fanatically faithful warriors at her back, and 3 dragons to boot. She is basically being thrown into a world with a goal and no direction and she is forced to find a way. As she matures and learns, it will make her stronger. Or....you know....the horrible horrible death thing.
That's something that keeps escaping me as I watch, and read (I'm just catching up in the books, to the events that are happening in the show now)... that Theon is 20, Robb and Daenarys are 15, Sansa is only twelve (that makes her character MUCH more acceptable, imo. I hate her parts, until I remember that) Bran is nine and Arya is seven. WOW.
No, they aged everyone up a little for the tv show. In the tv show, Roberts rebellion was 17 years ago at the start, so that is the age of Robb, Daenerys and Jon at the beginning of season 1. Theon was made to be the same age as Robb. Bran says he is ten right before he is pushed out the window. Arya is older than Bran.
On May 01 2012 15:14 Hoban wrote: I'm sure she will learn. We were all that stupid at her age (I think she is "supposed" to be 14-15 at this point). I'm pretty sure if she continues her course she will either a) die a horrible horrible death or b) become a war hardened warrior queen with countless legions of fanatically faithful warriors at her back, and 3 dragons to boot. She is basically being thrown into a world with a goal and no direction and she is forced to find a way. As she matures and learns, it will make her stronger. Or....you know....the horrible horrible death thing.
That's something that keeps escaping me as I watch, and read (I'm just catching up in the books, to the events that are happening in the show now)... that Theon is 20, Robb and Daenarys are 15, Sansa is only twelve (that makes her character MUCH more acceptable, imo. I hate her parts, until I remember that) Bran is nine and Arya is seven. WOW.
No, they aged everyone up a little for the tv show. In the tv show, Roberts rebellion was 17 years ago at the start, so that is the age of Robb, Daenerys and Jon at the beginning of season 1. Theon was made to be the same age as Robb. Bran says he is ten right before he is pushed out the window. Arya is older than Bran.
Good, now I can go back to not liking Sansa at any point during the show.
On May 01 2012 15:14 Hoban wrote: I'm sure she will learn. We were all that stupid at her age (I think she is "supposed" to be 14-15 at this point). I'm pretty sure if she continues her course she will either a) die a horrible horrible death or b) become a war hardened warrior queen with countless legions of fanatically faithful warriors at her back, and 3 dragons to boot. She is basically being thrown into a world with a goal and no direction and she is forced to find a way. As she matures and learns, it will make her stronger. Or....you know....the horrible horrible death thing.
That's something that keeps escaping me as I watch, and read (I'm just catching up in the books, to the events that are happening in the show now)... that Theon is 20, Robb and Daenarys are 15, Sansa is only twelve (that makes her character MUCH more acceptable, imo. I hate her parts, until I remember that) Bran is nine and Arya is seven. WOW.
No, they aged everyone up a little for the tv show. In the tv show, Roberts rebellion was 17 years ago at the start, so that is the age of Robb, Daenerys and Jon at the beginning of season 1. Theon was made to be the same age as Robb. Bran says he is ten right before he is pushed out the window. Arya is older than Bran.
Good, now I can go back to not liking Sansa at any point during the show.
But if Sansa is not 12 that means she's already had her first period.
But honestly, every minute showing daenerys is a wasted minute. Feels like a massive filler arc in an anime series: you just want it to end and the series to continue with the main story.
For some reason I just don't like her at all. It feels like she's becoming more and more like her brother with all the "I have the right to be the queen" - speeches while being nothing but a cocky, arrogant and clueless child. Why would she even care about being a queen when she doesn't know anything about westeros. To save her khalasar and give them a home? Come on, you don't need to conquer a continent to give a home to the 30 ppl you have left...
All she brings to the story are the dragons and I guess from a storytelling pov it makes sense to hold them back for a while but I'd rather have no dragons at all than daenerys.
On May 01 2012 17:33 Kemy wrote: Great episodes so far.
But honestly, every minute showing daenerys is a wasted minute. Feels like a massive filler arc in an anime series: you just want it to end and the series to continue with the main story.
For some reason I just don't like her at all. It feels like she's becoming more and more like her brother with all the "I have the right to be the queen" - speeches while being nothing but a cocky, arrogant and clueless child. Why would she even care about being a queen when she doesn't know anything about westeros. To save her khalasar and give them a home? Come on, you don't need to conquer a continent to give a home to the 30 ppl you have left...
All she brings to the story are the dragons and I guess from a storytelling pov it makes sense to hold them back for a while but I'd rather have no dragons at all than daenerys.
You also learn something about the world outside of Westeros through Daenerys, e.g. the Dothraki or Quarth.
There already was a scene where Bran has to listen to his people whinning about stuff in a previous episode, if I remember well he was playing with some paper and looked bored. Now he seems to care a lot and his little brother is the one playing with some shit, they clearly wanted to show he has grown.
I agree with Kemy, I can't see how Dany is going to have any impact on the main storyline before the next 10 or 20 years (before her dragons are grown and she has a decent army). Her tribulations seem pointless for someone who hasn't read the books. Also we have no idea if the common people would like her as a ruler (which apparently is her strongest point for claiming the iron throne)...
Did everyone forgot Cersei's cousin was the one serving the king his wine when he went hunting ? If you remember the hairless balless counsellor (forgot his name) said something implying he had to feel guilty. Now that we know he's fucking Cersei, it is likely the wine was poisoned by her and that's one more reason why he is so afraid of Tyrion saying to everyone he is bedding the queen.
By the way, does anyone think that there's a hidden meaning in that the direwolf in the very first episode was killed by a stag (the stag also died)? Baratheon and Stark will kill each other perhaps.
On May 01 2012 17:33 Kemy wrote: Great episodes so far.
But honestly, every minute showing daenerys is a wasted minute. Feels like a massive filler arc in an anime series: you just want it to end and the series to continue with the main story.
For some reason I just don't like her at all. It feels like she's becoming more and more like her brother with all the "I have the right to be the queen" - speeches while being nothing but a cocky, arrogant and clueless child. Why would she even care about being a queen when she doesn't know anything about westeros. To save her khalasar and give them a home? Come on, you don't need to conquer a continent to give a home to the 30 ppl you have left...
All she brings to the story are the dragons and I guess from a storytelling pov it makes sense to hold them back for a while but I'd rather have no dragons at all than daenerys.
You also learn something about the world outside of Westeros through Daenerys, e.g. the Dothraki or Quarth.
True. But that would be irrelevant if you wouldn't know anything about it in the first place.
Daenerys develops way too fast to actually understand and like her imo:
weak and submissive sister of a wannabe king -> bride/sex slave of one of the mightiest khals in dothraki -> learns to please him -> loved khaleesi -> even more loved khaleesi with dragons -> CRISIS -> a wild super rich town appears -> rich guy pays her all the money in the world to have babies with her -> CONQUER EVERYTHING!
It feels so rushed and random in comparison to the rest of the story.
On April 30 2012 21:41 alypse wrote: Please no more bullshit like this anymore . Conjuring a shadow demon and send it to kill the enemy's leader... ezpz. While they're at it, why don't they have it kill off Joffrey-Cercei-Tyrion-Tywin... or ANY one who dares rise against them, and then take the throne with little to no effort? I swear I'll stop watching if this kind of magic bullshit happens again.
because there is obviously a tradeoff, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist you nitwit.
no one cares if you watch it or not, get out then.
Normally I don't reply to bad-mannered brats like you, but since this is a topic I'm following with great interest, I'll do this time.
Just because I didn't say it doesn't mean I didn't think of the possibility of trade-offs or "limited use" of that demon. The point is, it looks like the easy way out that the writer took. Having magic intervened and then decided the outcome of the battle(s) is the worst think that the writer should do, since it makes the whole thing looks like children's fantasy books. Having dragons and the so-called White Walkers is already enough, that way the "fantasy" element of the series doesn't become ridiculous and doesn't make army soldiers look like redundant fools. Even if that demon can only be used once, it's still a ridiculously good trade for Baratheon - all he did was having sex with a woman and then come collecting Renly's 100000 troops.
Also, apparently I don't care if anyone cares about I watch the show or not; I just wanted to post since this is a topic in the general section of TL. Think before you speak and mind you words.
On April 30 2012 22:12 ZasZ. wrote: Did it look like little to no effort? Use your brain before you spout off nonsense like this. There is a reason magic is so rare in this story...it is exceedingly powerful. You don't see opposing sides lobbing fireballs at each other, so what exactly is the problem?
Like I said above, yes, it looked exactly like that. What kind of effort did Baratheon make? Do tell me.
And yes, I did use my brain and if you had used yours, you would see that fireballs is nowhere as bad as this kind of magic assassination - killed off the opposing leader and then simply took over almost all his troops.
Edit: By "writer" I mean the TV series writers. I did not read a single page of the books.
There was nothing simple about it, but I guess you'll think what you want about Stannis' approach. Keep in mind that A) Melisandre had to carry that child for an undetermined amount of time, and B) Davos had to smuggle her close enough to unleash it. If they had been discovered they would have been killed.
Now Stannis has to cope not only with the fact that he killed his own brother but that he did it in such a dishonorable fashion. But tell me, if your end goal was getting as many of these troops to fight for you as possible, don't you think assassinating their leader while simultaneously making it look like it wasn't you would be the best way to go about this?
And if you don't want people to respond to your post negatively, don't sound like one of the "bad-mannered brats" you never reply to. Saying things like "I swear I'll stop watching if this kind of magic bullshit happens again" sounds whiny and petulant. I guarantee you that HBO and GRRM are taking your threats very seriously.
You're just making excuses for the method Stannis used. All the 'hardships' that you listed sound pretty much like someone trying to make it up so that it looks like it's a really challenging case. Especially the 'honorable' part. How many honorable acts have you seen in this show so far, in comparison with the dishonorable/cunning ones? Not to mention this is power struggle - any thing that result in the downfall of the enemy should be used. I'm not questioning the "evilness" of the assassination. I'm saying that it, like many said, is a very cheap and ridiculous way to get rid of the opponent.
Also, a mature person would not reply to others with something like "Use your brain before you spout off nonsense like this". You're being childish right there when you're trying to make yourself sound like a mature one. At least make your behaviors coherent to your words, or you'll just end up being ridiculous.
On May 01 2012 18:00 Incognoto wrote: By the way, does anyone think that there's a hidden meaning in that the direwolf in the very first episode was killed by a stag (the stag also died)? Baratheon and Stark will kill each other perhaps.
Well i think that Stanis with his fanatic pov won't be very happy bout Rob ruling in the north.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Hu6yH.png)
. Conjuring a shadow demon and send it to kill the enemy's leader... ezpz. While they're at it, why don't they have it kill off Joffrey-Cercei-Tyrion-Tywin... or ANY one who dares rise against them, and then take the throne with little to no effort? I swear I'll stop watching if this kind of magic bullshit happens again.
