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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On May 01 2012 08:31 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:24 Bellazuk wrote:
Am I the only huge fan of Stark's family ? It seems despite all other family , they have been loyal and true lovers between each other. Stannis truly said that Ned died to tell the truth about his right to reclaim the throne, so I don't think Stannis will be an enemy of the Starks and I can't follow Theon, his family treat him like hes shit, why would he become a traitor to Robb who consider him as a brother and whos the king of the north now, this doesnt make sense to me. Stannis is just a righteous man. He doesn't hold a grudge against Robb, but if he insist on naming himself king I get a feeling Stannis will have a word to say bout that, lol. Also, am I the only one to see that Sam is so similar to lotr's Sam? They're both humble and weak, would prefer a much simpler life from what was given to them, show great courage in adverisities, they are sidekicks for the main heroes( in gots case one of the main heroes anyway), and ofc their names are exactly the same.
Its very possible. RR. Martin did say he admires the lotr books.
I don't think Stannis would be as easy to make peace with as Renly. He's very hardcore and only deals in ultimatums: "join me or die".
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United States13896 Posts
Samwise Gamgee weak?
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edit: "My Sam Gamgee is indeed a reflexion of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognised as so far superior to myself" - J.R.R. Tolkien
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On May 01 2012 08:24 Bellazuk wrote:
Am I the only huge fan of Stark's family ? It seems despite all other family , they have been loyal and true lovers between each other. Stannis truly said that Ned died to tell the truth about his right to reclaim the throne, so I don't think Stannis will be an enemy of the Starks and I can't follow Theon, his family treat him like hes shit, why would he become a traitor to Robb who consider him as a brother and whos the king of the north now, this doesnt make sense to me.
Doesnt make sense to us cause we're the audience who likes the Starks. Might make sense to Theon though who's clearly very confused and also somewhat of an egotistical prat.
And I'm not sure how much Stannis cares that Ned supported his claim. He seems like a bit of a fascist, and probably hates everyone.
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On May 01 2012 08:24 Bellazuk wrote:
Am I the only huge fan of Stark's family ? It seems despite all other family , they have been loyal and true lovers between each other. Stannis truly said that Ned died to tell the truth about his right to reclaim the throne, so I don't think Stannis will be an enemy of the Starks and I can't follow Theon, his family treat him like hes shit, why would he become a traitor to Robb who consider him as a brother and whos the king of the north now, this doesnt make sense to me.
Because as Theon, Ward of Winterfell he is nothing, treated almost as poorly as Jon Snow. Still pretty good treatment for a ward, but he was essentially a glorified hostage for the better part of his life. Even though they don't respect him yet, he is a Prince among the Ironborn, and if he can convince them he's worth of his father's crown (by taking the northern capital) he hopes it will all fall into place. He's a fairly arrogant and egotistical fellow (they have definitely established this), so it makes since that he will make the move that improves him the most.
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On May 01 2012 08:31 Steveling wrote:
Also, am I the only one to see that Sam is so similar to lotr's Sam? They're both humble and weak, would prefer a much simpler life from what was given to them, show great courage in adverisities, they are sidekicks for the main heroes( in gots case one of the main heroes anyway), and ofc their names are exactly the same.
George RR Martin said in the GoT commentaries that he gets asked that question a lot. His answer was "not directly" but admits there may have been a subconscious influence.
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United States43272 Posts
On May 01 2012 08:40 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:24 Bellazuk wrote:
Am I the only huge fan of Stark's family ? It seems despite all other family , they have been loyal and true lovers between each other. Stannis truly said that Ned died to tell the truth about his right to reclaim the throne, so I don't think Stannis will be an enemy of the Starks and I can't follow Theon, his family treat him like hes shit, why would he become a traitor to Robb who consider him as a brother and whos the king of the north now, this doesnt make sense to me. Because as Theon, Ward of Winterfell he is nothing, treated almost as poorly as Jon Snow. Still pretty good treatment for a ward, but he was essentially a glorified hostage for the better part of his life. Even though they don't respect him yet, he is a Prince among the Ironborn, and if he can convince them he's worth of his father's crown (by taking the northern capital) he hopes it will all fall into place. He's a fairly arrogant and egotistical fellow (they have definitely established this), so it makes since that he will make the move that improves him the most.
He also had an idealised view of what it meant to be son of a lord based upon Robb's relationship with Ned/Winterfell. He sees the respect Robb gets, the leadership of men and getting proclaimed King in the North and while he's a friend to Robb he thinks these are things that are denied to him. He thought he'd land in Pyke and be treated like he's seen the son of the lord being treated his entire life, his ego is built around an idea which was Eddard being nice rather than the reality on the Iron Islands. He'd either have to abandon the entire identity he's built around himself growing up and be nothing but Robb's friend or attempt to become the man he feels he deserves to be.
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You have to understand that Theon was a protected (hostage) of the Starks, after the Greyjoys lost te rebellion. He wants to be an iron man now that he is "free", but his family believes that he was softened by the way he was raised by the Starks.
It is shown how little everyone from the Iron Lands respect him. He wants respect from that people, and one way to do so is to prove himself by achieving something, that's why he's doing what he is doing.
Man, I've to say it again. I've read the books, and this series is being REALLY well done. It's mind blowing, seriously.
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Arya and the acotr paying her. I give my life to You.
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On May 01 2012 07:42 Tears.Of.The.Moon wrote:
I'm just wondering on which side are Riverlands , Vale and Dorn , these are the only three regions that i'm not completely sure?
Riverlands are with Robb Stark. They're ruled by his mother's family, and he rescued them from the Lannisters, plus they're adjacent to the North, so it makes sense for them to join together. The Vale is ruled by a crazy bitch who thinks if anyone leaves her castle, it will be the difference between life and death for her goofy kid, so they're staying neutral. Dorne is also staying neutral, which is traditionally their policy, but Tyrion is trying to get them on his side by marrying Myrcella to their Prince.
On May 01 2012 08:24 Bellazuk wrote:
Am I the only huge fan of Stark's family ? It seems despite all other family , they have been loyal and true lovers between each other. Stannis truly said that Ned died to tell the truth about his right to reclaim the throne, so I don't think Stannis will be an enemy of the Starks and I can't follow Theon, his family treat him like hes shit, why would he become a traitor to Robb who consider him as a brother and whos the king of the north now, this doesnt make sense to me.
Theon has been treated very well by the Starks, that is true - but he is still their hostage, and he still cannot hope to ever be any more than their hostage. If he proves himself with his own people, there's his birth right as Lord (or King) to contend with. Sure it's not a choice we like to see him take, but from his position it's still a damn good one.
On May 01 2012 08:38 Spitfire wrote:
And I'm not sure how much Stannis cares that Ned supported his claim. He seems like a bit of a fascist, and probably hates everyone.
Stannis cares that Ned supported him - but more importantly he's a man of justice. He wants to see the law upheld; he bowed to Robert when the crown came to the Baratheons, and I have no doubt that if Renly had been older than Stannis rather than the other way around, he would support Renly's claim to the throne. The laws say (if you believe that Joffrey is not Robert's son) that the Throne should pass to Stannis, and so in his eyes, Robb Stark taking the riverlands and the north is as much a traitor as anyone else.
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On May 01 2012 08:46 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:40 ZasZ. wrote:On May 01 2012 08:24 Bellazuk wrote:
Am I the only huge fan of Stark's family ? It seems despite all other family , they have been loyal and true lovers between each other. Stannis truly said that Ned died to tell the truth about his right to reclaim the throne, so I don't think Stannis will be an enemy of the Starks and I can't follow Theon, his family treat him like hes shit, why would he become a traitor to Robb who consider him as a brother and whos the king of the north now, this doesnt make sense to me. Because as Theon, Ward of Winterfell he is nothing, treated almost as poorly as Jon Snow. Still pretty good treatment for a ward, but he was essentially a glorified hostage for the better part of his life. Even though they don't respect him yet, he is a Prince among the Ironborn, and if he can convince them he's worth of his father's crown (by taking the northern capital) he hopes it will all fall into place. He's a fairly arrogant and egotistical fellow (they have definitely established this), so it makes since that he will make the move that improves him the most. He also had an idealised view of what it meant to be son of a lord based upon Robb's relationship with Ned/Winterfell. He sees the respect Robb gets, the leadership of men and getting proclaimed King in the North and while he's a friend to Robb he thinks these are things that are denied to him. He thought he'd land in Pyke and be treated like he's seen the son of the lord being treated his entire life, his ego is built around an idea which was Eddard being nice rather than the reality on the Iron Islands. He'd either have to abandon the entire identity he's built around himself growing up and be nothing but Robb's friend or attempt to become the man he feels he deserves to be.
Pretty deep there. One also has to consider that Theon thinks he is entitled to alot of things, and like said in the last episode he has to earn it. Something he hasn't realised until now. He is as power hungry as Cersei and arrogant to boot. Robb has earned peoples respect, he even had to make the Greatjon bend the knee. Theon hasn't earned shit but that doesn't mean his family should treat him like hes dirt either. An interesting character whom i however think is rotten to the core, he'll do anything to recieve recognition from his father but not for the recognition itself, but for power and respect from the masses.
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Am i the only one who thinks Stannis is cast perfectly? He's very close to how i imagined him while reading in regards to looks, and the personality/acting/presence is perfect.
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On May 01 2012 08:51 phyre112 wrote:
Stannis cares that Ned supported him - but more importantly he's a man of justice. He wants to see the law upheld; he bowed to Robert when the crown came to the Baratheons, and I have no doubt that if Renly had been older than Stannis rather than the other way around, he would support Renly's claim to the throne. The laws say (if you believe that Joffrey is not Robert's son) that the Throne should pass to Stannis, and so in his eyes, Robb Stark taking the riverlands and the north is as much a traitor as anyone else.
I get that he is a 'just' man who believes in the law, much like Ned Stark, but I feel Stannis's brand of justice is a more ruthless, black and white kind, with less room for the compassion that the Starks show.
His view of law is also quite narrow. Calling Robb a traitor for taking a part of the kingdom Stannis seen as rightfully being his, but the only reason he is heir to this kingdom is the Starks helped his brother take it from someone else. Hence I see him as a rather self-righteous character, more of a fanatic then a true champion of justice like Ned Stark seemed to be.
I havent read the books, this is just how the character comes across to me from the series. I get the impression he was more noble at one point, for Sir Davos to have such respect for him, but that Melissandre's influence is sending him increasingly downhill.
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On May 01 2012 09:20 Spitfire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 08:51 phyre112 wrote:
Stannis cares that Ned supported him - but more importantly he's a man of justice. He wants to see the law upheld; he bowed to Robert when the crown came to the Baratheons, and I have no doubt that if Renly had been older than Stannis rather than the other way around, he would support Renly's claim to the throne. The laws say (if you believe that Joffrey is not Robert's son) that the Throne should pass to Stannis, and so in his eyes, Robb Stark taking the riverlands and the north is as much a traitor as anyone else. I get that he is a 'just' man who believes in the law, much like Ned Stark, but I feel Stannis's brand of justice is a more ruthless, black and white kind, with less room for the compassion that the Starks show. His view of law is also quite narrow. Calling Robb a traitor for taking a part of the kingdom Stannis seen as rightfully being his, but the only reason he is heir to this kingdom is the Starks helped his brother take it from someone else. Hence I see him as a rather self-righteous character, more of a fanatic then a true champion of justice like Ned Stark seemed to be. I havent read the books, this is just how the character comes across to me from the series. I get the impression he was more noble at one point, for Sir Davos to have such respect for him, but that Melissandre's influence is sending him increasingly downhill.
Stannis has always been like this. when Davos was still a smuggeler he aided Stannis by smuggeling in supplies for him. In return he cut off his fingers for smuggeling. Kinda shows how much he is willing to compromise.
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On May 01 2012 03:40 Incognoto wrote:
Disclaimer: These aren't spoilers. I haven't read the books. I don't know what's going to happen. This is pure speculation on my part. I'm posting as of when I've seen the 5th episode of the second season. !!!!!!
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So I was watching the last episode a second time (I find I always need to watch twice to get a good grasp at what's going on) and I did a small recap of the situation. So we have Renly dead and all the Baratheons who are under Stannis's flag. I'm pretty sure the Stark/Baratheon alliance is going to go to hell, especially since there are rumors of Cat being the assassin (or at least having taken part in it).
I don't think the rumors of Cat being the assassin should play a role in a Stark/Baratheon alliance since Stannis knows it wasn't her, but I still think it's unlikely that they would ally, I just don't seem them coming up with terms that are acceptable for both sides.
So every house is basically for itself now. Greyjoys vs Stark, Stark vs Lannister, Baratheon vs Lannister, etc. There are pretty much no alliances. And every house wants the throne, EXCEPT for Robb Stark. He just wants Joffrey's head. So basically the 7 kingdoms is one hell of a war.
On top of that, we have Daenerys Targaryen, who also wants the throne. I think the really interesting part of this episode was when Jorah told her that her allies weren't at Qarth (I hope she leaves Qarth soon btw because that city gives me the creeps) but in Westorros. Except that Daeny is the only Targaryen alive... who the hell is going to support her? Who are her allies? Yeah she's got the dragons but they're still little and shit. The other interesting point is that Daenerys would make a good queen. When she was a Khaleesi, she was loved by the people and she was a good khaleesi. A kind one. She's probably the best monarch the Iron Throne could get, better than Stannis, Joffrey or whoever else wants it. She'd be good to her people, she isn't the Mad King. She's also honorable, which seems to be a rare quality.
In that regard, it almost seems that Daenerys and Robb Stark are natural allies. Robb doesn't want the Throne, Daeny does. Robb needs support because he's alone against 3 different houses, Daeny needs an ally in Westorros. The Starks are the ones who are going to "suffer" the most when Winter comes, what with White Walkers and their wights. What kills the latter? Fire. What breathes fire? Dragons, that's what. Both are honorable, both are loved by their people. Both are leaders. An alliance almost seems perfect between them, even if Stark and Targaryen have been at each other in the past. Not only that, the Starks are the only faction who doesn't want to rule on the Iron Throne (besides perhaps Greyjoy), hence the only reasonable ally to be had for Daeny.
Daenerys and Robb would make great allies yes, but I don't think it would work out because Danny won't be able to sail to Westeros for quite some time. If she went now she would only have like 50 people, a couple of baby dragons and no money, she wouldn't make it a week. She has to wait for her dragons to grow up before making a move (which could take years? I havn't seen a lot of baby dragons so I'm not too sure :p) and by then, the war in Westeros will have changed a lot, so Robb might not be the best ally anymore. Besides, it would be hard for Danny to convince Robb to make an alliance with her, why would he want to put her on the Throne? He doesn't know her so he can't know that she'd be a good ruler.
I don't have much to say about Snow. His story line is really interesting but I can't think of horse shit of stuff that'll happen. I'm pretty sure that the wildlings and the WW aren't allies. I'm pretty sure that the WW are the ones making the wildlings march south. But that's all.
Yeah the wildlings are most likely trying to head south to avoid the whitewalkers.
I really love Arya's situation, it's really interesting. Especially with Gendry mixed up there (by the way people, don't forget that Gendry has a claim to the throne). What I find harder to believe is that someone as smart as Tywin (the opposition of epicness between Tywin and Arya is really excellent btw) didn't put two and two together about Arya.
So Stark's last girl completely disappears, no one can find her, no one knows where she is. The Lannisters are looking for her though. Tywin is aware that Arya hasn't been captured. All of a sudden, a northern girl is found in a convoy which left FROM King's Landing (ie where Arya was last known to be). Fancy THAT. Doesn't he realize he's got Arya? That said, he probably isn't even thinking about her at all, considering he's waging a war and not doing politics. The other thing I'm surprised that Tywin didn't figure out was who Gendry was. Oh, right, blacksmith's apprentices are SO common, are they? They go looking for one, they find the convey where he was, they think he's dead. But apparently another blacksmith was also traveling with them.
My analysis is that the Lannisters at King's Landing aren't telling Tywin all the details of their failings. ;/
But yeah enough for now, I've got myself my own Wall [of text] here.
Well, for one thing Tywin might not know that Arya was travelling from King's Landing (He just got to Harrenhal and saw her there with a bunch of other prisoners), second there's a lot of houses in the north with a lot of people, he's probably seen tons of other northern girls get captured, and while he knows that Arya is missing he has no idea what she looks like, he probably hardly knows anything about her.
As for Gendry, you have to remember that even though the Lannisters are a house, they don't all share the same knowledge. For instance I doubt Tywin knows about Gendry at all, if I was Cersei I wouldn't tell Tywin that I was hunting down my late husbands bastards, and even if I did, there's no reasons for her to tell him the details of one specific bastard. Remember they weren't just hunting Gendry, there were bastards all over the city and Gendry was just one of them, so the soilders tasked to finding the bastards probably just try and get resonable proof that one is dead, and then they move on to kill the next one. Plus, since the Lannisters are spread out across Westeros at the moment and a war is waging they probably don't send too much information by raven since it can easily be intercepted.
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I don't believe I am going to say this as I thought the moderation here was already heavy-handed, but:
Can people please not say that character X is in book Y, since by saying that you are letting people know that a particular character will not be killed this season.
+ Show Spoiler +This is regarding the talk of Quaithe
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United States43272 Posts
On May 01 2012 09:31 hzflank wrote:I don't believe I am going to say this as I thought the moderation here was already heavy-handed, but: Can people please not say that character X is in book Y, since by saying that you are letting people know that a particular character will not be killed this season. + Show Spoiler +This is regarding the talk of Quaithe
Dealt with the offending post. Feel free to report any posts you feel breach the rules of the topic.
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On May 01 2012 09:12 SiguR wrote:
Am i the only one who thinks Stannis is cast perfectly? He's very close to how i imagined him while reading in regards to looks, and the personality/acting/presence is perfect.
Not at first, but I really think he is doing an excelent acting job. Think he is the best cast of season 2, with asha(osha(?)) beeing the worst.
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On May 01 2012 10:07 sidesprang wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 09:12 SiguR wrote:
Am i the only one who thinks Stannis is cast perfectly? He's very close to how i imagined him while reading in regards to looks, and the personality/acting/presence is perfect. Not at first, but I really think he is doing an excelent acting job. Think he is the best cast of season 2, with asha( yara) being the worst.
User was warned for fooling a mod into thinking he didn't make any contribution. He did. I fucked up.
- p4ND
p.s. lol
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On May 01 2012 07:35 Spitfire wrote:
Think people are being a bit harsh calling the so-called "shadow demon" a deus ex machina, considering we hardly know anything about Melissandre or what she did yet. George RR Martin seems too intelligent a writer to introduce something like that without there being a limitation or, more importantly, a price.
Now, what I do find a bit iffy though is all of Renly's men suddenly flocking to Stannis's banner. On the one hand they're both Baratheons and Stannis is a respected soldier apparently so I could see why other soldiers would flock to him. On the other hand, I got the impression people were supporting Renly because they very much didnt want someone like Stannis as king. I guess that doesnt really apply to the soldiers though.
Yeah melissandre's vag is no sharingan.
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EPT
