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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On April 26 2012 00:38 psychopat wrote:
The rules were more lax at the start and it wound up with a ton of people getting spoiled. It's a lot easier to moderate when the rules are black and white as opposed to having multiple shades of grey with several people trying to toe the line. I have only read book 1 and I essentially didn't post in the thread at all before the end of season 1. Not that hard, considering there's tons of other places to post with regards to the books...
Anyway, based on what we've seen so far, I'm a bit ambivalent with regards to season 2. It's shaping up to be a fantastic battle but I don't like the way it's lining up... In terms of people vying for positions of power, we see several groups. In order or likelihood of "victory", my current impressions are:
House Greyjoy - Seems like the only advantage they have is the element of surprise, but they look like they're vying for the north and not the crown... Best case scenario is they gain a bit of land..?
Stannis - Rightful king, but not a good king. Likely to get burned by Melisandre so likely will not win. His (smaller?) army will be mostly wasted fighting his brother.
Renly - Apparently the best army but half of it will be wasted fighting his brother. His wife seems to be the most pragmatic of the bunch, although usually in TV shows & movies where death is always looming, being gay is almost as much of a death sentence as is losing your virginity.
Daenarys - Wasn't sure where to slot the Targaryans... If she can manage to survive long enough for the dragons to mature, which I'm guessing she will otherwise they wouldn't waste so much time on her story arc, she could make an impact... although she still has next to no army anyway... Then again, owning dragons would probably be a good recruitment pitch.
House Stark - Decent chances at getting to the throne (that he doesn't want) but he'll probably lose the North in the process. Not enough manpower to fend off the probable Greyjoy backstab + if the wall falls, they're the first to go down...
House Lannister - Isn't it annoying that the party with the least redeeming qualities seems to have the upper hand? They've got some of the best strategists (Cersei, Tywin, Tyrion), some of the best fighters (Jaime, Clegane sorta) and currently have the throne. They'd have to really screw up to lose at this point, which is still a very real possibility with that petulant, sadistic sociopath on the throne. I'm hoping Sansa stabs him in the throat and runs off at some point. Would finally give her character some meaning.
I'm interested to see which way the story goes. I find I'm enjoying the 2nd season a lot more since I don't know what's coming up. I think I will probably keep going TV season --> read book going forwards instead of the Read book --> Watch TV season. I don't know how he can keep it going for 5+ seasons without introducing several new characters though. Everyone but Dany is currently on a path to destruction that could easily be resolved in 2 at most.
Please do not drag down the brilliant minds of Tywin and Tyrion by putting them in the same sentence as Cersei. Cersei is simply an incompetent ruler. The Lannisters would've been a thousand times better off if they didn't have Cersei and Joffrey to deal with... just imagine if Joffrey hadn't cut off Ned's head on a whim.
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The Lannisters would also not have the iron throne if not for Cersei.
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Make no mistake... wall of text is coming.
On April 26 2012 00:38 psychopat wrote:
They'd have to really screw up to lose at this point, which is still a very real possibility with that petulant, sadistic sociopath on the throne. I'm hoping Sansa stabs him in the throat and runs off at some point. Would finally give her character some meaning.
It's interesting to me how many dislike Sansa or the role that she plays. When I talked to a friend about one of the recent episodes and said "Wow, poor Sansa..." when the scene with her and Cersei and the children at dinner came up, he said he doesn't really care about her, mostly because she was that little bitch last season (and still is from time to time, see her conversation with Shae).
As I see her, she is the product of how noble girls are raised in Westeros and what they are supposed to be. Yeah, everybody likes Arya because she doesn't fit in and is a fighter and all, but I find Sansa much more interesting because she is pretty much the daughter every Lord wants to have that is now confronted with this terribly cruel situation, all her illusions are crushed, her father taken from her.
On April 26 2012 01:05 Maxie wrote:
Please do not drag down the brilliant minds of Tywin and Tyrion by putting them in the same sentence as Cersei. Cersei is simply an incompetent ruler. The Lannisters would've been a thousand times better off if they didn't have Cersei and Joffrey to deal with... just imagine if Joffrey hadn't cut off Ned's head on a whim.
This is entirely true. It's genius how GRRM put everyones favorite character (Tyrion) and a very charismatic, cunning leader (Tywin) on the same side as those people whose dead we all hope for with all our guts.
I can hardly vote in my own poll about who I'm rooting for, because I actually root for everyone. Every single party in this Clash of Kings is interesting and cool in its own way. For me personally the Starks actually take the last place. The Greyjoys are badass Vikings that everyone only hates because they backstab their beloved Starks (and maybe because we haven't seen much of them).
It would be very interesting to see how Renly would act on the throne, with all the rumours about his sexuality. I'm pumped to see more about the Tyrells, Margaery totally rocks and Brienne could be cool as well.
But Stannis somehow got me. He's pretty much Ned Stark in smart, but powerhungry. He has cool allies in Davos Seaworth and that pirate. Also, who doesn't want to know more about Melisandre?
And finally, in the long run, of course I want to see Danaerys fuck shit up with her dragons. But that can wait for now. =)
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On April 26 2012 00:59 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 22:38 OrchidThief wrote:On April 25 2012 22:30 zodde wrote:On April 25 2012 22:13 Gorsameth wrote:On April 25 2012 22:03 zodde wrote:On April 25 2012 21:53 Gorsameth wrote:
People really cant leave the books alone can they. The last few pages are full of hints being thrown around by people who obvious have read the books (I Have myself aswell which is why I can spot them) hoping that mods dont pick up on them.
Oh come on, how could a few light hints be that bad? Especially if no one that cares even sees them. Notice the big text at the top of this thread saying no spoilers allowed. That means , suprise, no spoilers. Hits might seem fun to you but for the people coming here to discuss the series they very much can ruin things. Your saying no one that cares seems them but how can you be sure of that? if even 1 person gets it thats 1 to many. I haven't spoilered shit dude, I haven't even read the books. The idea that the shadow baby thingy is going after Renly is not far fetched, it's in fact pretty obvious. I'm barely making some wordplay on a shadow controled by the light god (or whatever) is going after Renly (bright future, shadow of his brother, light hints, etc). And I repeat, I have only watched the TV series and I have no clue what will actually happen in the next episode, but the likely outcome isn't hard to guess. No, but read Excludos' posts, they're pretty filled with hints. They're bad because people don't know when to stop, so just cutting it out in cardboard is much preferred. People have turned out to not be self critical enough to keep their posts neutral if they have read the books. I was honestly really considering if I should post my last post or not. But decided that since it had already been mentioned in the series, the hint "you'll probably know more in the future" isn't exactly a spoiler, and could have been said by someone who hasn't read the books as well. edit: Yes, I would be all for a thread that had "Game of thrones up to this point, book or series, no spoilers" as well, as I haven't read all the books, so I can't use the spoilered thread, and apparantly I'm unqualified to post in this thread, spoilers or no, as long as I have glanced at the books.
It was mentioned in the series, but we don't know if it was actually anything real, or just a way to justify the torture. You confirmed it was a thing. It's providing information that isn't avaiable in the show, thus spoiling it. It's not neutral even if you think it is.
Edit: I think Cersei is more clever than people are giving her credit for. She may lack some tactical knowledge, but she's not incompetent.
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Cersei is kinda removed from reality tho. Dont forget she has lost control of her own son.
The scene where she slaps him in the throne room he then tells her next time he will have her (his very own mother) executed and again when Tyrion talks to her about the murder of the baby in the brothel where she didnt even know Joffrey ordered the killing.
Cersei is to used to people dancing to her tune that when others act against her she is kinda left dumb founded.
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On April 26 2012 02:11 Gorsameth wrote:
Cersei is kinda removed from reality tho. Dont forget she has lost control of her own son.
The scene where she slaps him in the throne room he then tells her next time he will have her (his very own mother) executed and again when Tyrion talks to her about the murder of the baby in the brother where she didnt even know Joffrey ordered the killing.
Cersei is to used to people dancing to her tune that when others act against her she is kinda left dumb founded.
Good points. I can only see bad things happening to Cersei now. Jamie is being held hostage, her son is no longer her little puppet, Tyrion and her don't get along well, her lover is now Tyrion's spy, etc... Things are just not looking good for her and I hope she gets the worst as that woman is just such a bitch.
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On April 25 2012 14:57 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 14:48 JWD wrote:- Renly's wife is getting a lot of screen time this season, but I have no idea who she is. Did we meet her during s1? Anyway, I'm a fan. What a practical woman.
- Why didn't Robb ask for some identifying information from that cute medic? Can he claim no spoils of war?
1) No, she wasn't featured in season 1 at all. Margaery is Loras' (The Knight of Flowers) sister both of whom's family is rather wealthy (House Tyrell is Warden of Dorne in the South) and have played a major role in giving Renly the political and military means to make a strong bid for the throne. 2) He's building up the courage? I dk. But after that encounter it seems like they're surely to meet again soon.
House Tyrell is not from Dorne. Tyrell is from The Reach, and the capital city there is Highgarden. House Martell rules Dorne. The Reach and Dorne have been engaged in a long cold war style feud.
Also, Dorne is not part of the seven kingdoms of Westeros. Dorne is on the south most point of the continent of Westeros, but Dorne never gave their kingom up to Aegon the Conqueror. Dorne is like a vassal state of the seven kingdoms. As such, it is Prince Martell, rather than Lord.
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Gotta say the new mountain looks like half a mountain to me, he has big shoes to fill.
The Arya storyline is by far my favourite, closely followed by the Night's watch which we didn't get to see this week.
Just hoping we get more Tywin scenes and less random whore scenes.
As for the discussion a few pages back about people leaving hints, seriously think about other people's enjoyment before you even think of alluding to future events. You know who you are.
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On April 26 2012 01:31 chocopaw wrote:It's interesting to me how many dislike Sansa or the role that she plays. When I talked to a friend about one of the recent episodes and said "Wow, poor Sansa..." when the scene with her and Cersei and the children at dinner came up, he said he doesn't really care about her, mostly because she was that little bitch last season (and still is from time to time, see her conversation with Shae).
As I see her, she is the product of how noble girls are raised in Westeros and what they are supposed to be. Yeah, everybody likes Arya because she doesn't fit in and is a fighter and all, but I find Sansa much more interesting because she is pretty much the daughter every Lord wants to have that is now confronted with this terribly cruel situation, all her illusions are crushed, her father taken from her.
I don't dislike Sansa. I feel... nothing for her. She hasn't given any reason to cheer for her at all yet and she's given us a couple reasons to dislike her in the first season... The best reason to root for her is by proxy, just because she's a Stark. That's weak.
Yes, she's been put in a terrible situation but, so far, the only reason for the character's existence is to be a tool in other people's machinations. She's only there to hinder Ned, to ensure that the Starks don't murder Jaime, to throw a spoke in the wheels of Robb's progress by throwing out the possibility of a Jaime-Sansa trade by Cat or to show Joffrey's depravity. None of that is of her own doing though.
I don't hate her, but I don't like her. I want to like her but she needs to actually be a character instead of a pawn or a tool. She needs to actually do *something*, even if it turns out that it's stupid. At least then she'll be something other than a prop...
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United States12607 Posts
I agree that Sansa was pretty insufferable in s1, but I think you guys need to cut her some slack in s2 because she really has very few options. She's a prisoner — anything she does wrong could cause Joffrey to go off and kill her. I mean, it's hard to be anything but a pawn in others' machinations when doing something proactive would probably just get you killed.
s2 Sansa shows some signs of cunning and intelligence, though (e.g. the scene where she saved that drunk fighter's life by manipulating Joffrey, in the first episode). I think she is just waiting for an opportunity to get some leverage / strike. My prediction is that she will make a big move at some point later in this season to undermine the Lannisters. But, unless she's going to do something absurdly bold and risky like try to assassinate Joffrey, she first needs something valuable to work with, like Tyrion's absolute loyalty or some dirt on Cersei or Joffrey.
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Just wanted to say I just watched the First esp of season one...... And i'm fucking hooked! haha, so much more to watch!
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The Greyjoys are idiots imo. And traitors. The whole idea of the iron price is ridiculous and belligerent. Did you buy it or did you steal it from a dead man's corpse? Oh you bought it? Oh you aren't a raving murderer, you tried to obtain something peacefully? You suck.
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On April 26 2012 00:59 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 22:38 OrchidThief wrote:On April 25 2012 22:30 zodde wrote:On April 25 2012 22:13 Gorsameth wrote:On April 25 2012 22:03 zodde wrote:On April 25 2012 21:53 Gorsameth wrote:
People really cant leave the books alone can they. The last few pages are full of hints being thrown around by people who obvious have read the books (I Have myself aswell which is why I can spot them) hoping that mods dont pick up on them.
Oh come on, how could a few light hints be that bad? Especially if no one that cares even sees them. Notice the big text at the top of this thread saying no spoilers allowed. That means , suprise, no spoilers. Hits might seem fun to you but for the people coming here to discuss the series they very much can ruin things. Your saying no one that cares seems them but how can you be sure of that? if even 1 person gets it thats 1 to many. I haven't spoilered shit dude, I haven't even read the books. The idea that the shadow baby thingy is going after Renly is not far fetched, it's in fact pretty obvious. I'm barely making some wordplay on a shadow controled by the light god (or whatever) is going after Renly (bright future, shadow of his brother, light hints, etc). And I repeat, I have only watched the TV series and I have no clue what will actually happen in the next episode, but the likely outcome isn't hard to guess. No, but read Excludos' posts, they're pretty filled with hints. They're bad because people don't know when to stop, so just cutting it out in cardboard is much preferred. People have turned out to not be self critical enough to keep their posts neutral if they have read the books. I was honestly really considering if I should post my last post or not. But decided that since it had already been mentioned in the series, the hint "you'll probably know more in the future" isn't exactly a spoiler, and could have been said by someone who hasn't read the books as well. edit: Yes, I would be all for a thread that had "Game of thrones up to this point, book or series, no spoilers" as well, as I haven't read all the books, so I can't use the spoilered thread, and apparantly I'm unqualified to post in this thread, spoilers or no, as long as I have glanced at the books.
Thats not what makes you unqualified, what makes you unqualified, is your in in-ability to not share your knowlege of the books with others. Even "you'll learn more in the future" is a pointless post, that tells us things we dont want to know, just so you can feel clever. If you want to talk in this thread about the SHOW and only about the SHOW. Then you can. Is it really that hard?
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United States12607 Posts
Hey, guys, please stop crapping up the thread by arguing about whether a post contains spoilers or not. Use the report function / PM a mod instead, and leave policing posts here up to us.
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On April 26 2012 02:20 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 14:57 p4NDemik wrote:On April 25 2012 14:48 JWD wrote:- Renly's wife is getting a lot of screen time this season, but I have no idea who she is. Did we meet her during s1? Anyway, I'm a fan. What a practical woman.
- Why didn't Robb ask for some identifying information from that cute medic? Can he claim no spoils of war?
1) No, she wasn't featured in season 1 at all. Margaery is Loras' (The Knight of Flowers) sister both of whom's family is rather wealthy (House Tyrell is Warden of Dorne in the South) and have played a major role in giving Renly the political and military means to make a strong bid for the throne. 2) He's building up the courage? I dk. But after that encounter it seems like they're surely to meet again soon. House Tyrell is not from Dorne. Tyrell is from The Reach, and the capital city there is Highgarden. House Martell rules Dorne. The Reach and Dorne have been engaged in a long cold war style feud. Also, Dorne is not part of the seven kingdoms of Westeros. Dorne is on the south most point of the continent of Westeros, but Dorne never gave their kingom up to Aegon the Conqueror. Dorne is like a vassal state of the seven kingdoms. As such, it is Prince Martell, rather than Lord.
They certainly are one of the 7 kingdoms the targaryens just never conquered their lands but instead acquired it via marriage. They're the 7th and last to be assimilated by the iron throne.
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On April 26 2012 04:39 Mogget wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 00:59 Excludos wrote:On April 25 2012 22:38 OrchidThief wrote:On April 25 2012 22:30 zodde wrote:On April 25 2012 22:13 Gorsameth wrote:On April 25 2012 22:03 zodde wrote:On April 25 2012 21:53 Gorsameth wrote:
People really cant leave the books alone can they. The last few pages are full of hints being thrown around by people who obvious have read the books (I Have myself aswell which is why I can spot them) hoping that mods dont pick up on them.
Oh come on, how could a few light hints be that bad? Especially if no one that cares even sees them. Notice the big text at the top of this thread saying no spoilers allowed. That means , suprise, no spoilers. Hits might seem fun to you but for the people coming here to discuss the series they very much can ruin things. Your saying no one that cares seems them but how can you be sure of that? if even 1 person gets it thats 1 to many. I haven't spoilered shit dude, I haven't even read the books. The idea that the shadow baby thingy is going after Renly is not far fetched, it's in fact pretty obvious. I'm barely making some wordplay on a shadow controled by the light god (or whatever) is going after Renly (bright future, shadow of his brother, light hints, etc). And I repeat, I have only watched the TV series and I have no clue what will actually happen in the next episode, but the likely outcome isn't hard to guess. No, but read Excludos' posts, they're pretty filled with hints. They're bad because people don't know when to stop, so just cutting it out in cardboard is much preferred. People have turned out to not be self critical enough to keep their posts neutral if they have read the books. I was honestly really considering if I should post my last post or not. But decided that since it had already been mentioned in the series, the hint "you'll probably know more in the future" isn't exactly a spoiler, and could have been said by someone who hasn't read the books as well. edit: Yes, I would be all for a thread that had "Game of thrones up to this point, book or series, no spoilers" as well, as I haven't read all the books, so I can't use the spoilered thread, and apparantly I'm unqualified to post in this thread, spoilers or no, as long as I have glanced at the books. Thats not what makes you unqualified, what makes you unqualified, is your in in-ability to not share your knowlege of the books with others. Even "you'll learn more in the future" is a pointless post, that tells us things we dont want to know, just so you can feel clever. If you want to talk in this thread about the SHOW and only about the SHOW. Then you can. Is it really that hard?
Well, sorry for trying to be helpful to a confused soul asking about it. I honestly never thought I would be flamed for a "you'll probably know more in the future" post. It doesn't even fucking entice I've read the books until I got flamed for it.
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On April 26 2012 01:28 ShadeR wrote:
The Lannisters would also not have the iron throne if not for Cersei.
Which is why they would have been better off.
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On April 26 2012 03:49 psychopat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:31 chocopaw wrote:It's interesting to me how many dislike Sansa or the role that she plays. When I talked to a friend about one of the recent episodes and said "Wow, poor Sansa..." when the scene with her and Cersei and the children at dinner came up, he said he doesn't really care about her, mostly because she was that little bitch last season (and still is from time to time, see her conversation with Shae).
As I see her, she is the product of how noble girls are raised in Westeros and what they are supposed to be. Yeah, everybody likes Arya because she doesn't fit in and is a fighter and all, but I find Sansa much more interesting because she is pretty much the daughter every Lord wants to have that is now confronted with this terribly cruel situation, all her illusions are crushed, her father taken from her. I don't dislike Sansa. I feel... nothing for her. She hasn't given any reason to cheer for her at all yet and she's given us a couple reasons to dislike her in the first season... The best reason to root for her is by proxy, just because she's a Stark. That's weak. Yes, she's been put in a terrible situation but, so far, the only reason for the character's existence is to be a tool in other people's machinations. She's only there to hinder Ned, to ensure that the Starks don't murder Jaime, to throw a spoke in the wheels of Robb's progress by throwing out the possibility of a Jaime-Sansa trade by Cat or to show Joffrey's depravity. None of that is of her own doing though. I don't hate her, but I don't like her. I want to like her but she needs to actually be a character instead of a pawn or a tool. She needs to actually do *something*, even if it turns out that it's stupid. At least then she'll be something other than a prop...
Well, what do you really expect? She's a sheltered princess, who's life up until now has been filled with fairy tales. I applaud Martin for making characters somewhat believable, instead of every protagonist being the typical fearless, headstrong, self sufficient fantasy hero. Also, just give it time, GOT is known for having many strong female characters, and I have a feeling Sansa will develop into one of these, it may just take a long time, she is in a VERY dire situation after all.
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On April 26 2012 04:33 Incognoto wrote:
The Greyjoys are idiots imo. And traitors. The whole idea of the iron price is ridiculous and belligerent. Did you buy it or did you steal it from a dead man's corpse? Oh you bought it? Oh you aren't a raving murderer, you tried to obtain something peacefully? You suck.
They remind me of pirates/vikings. What do you expect, it's their culture. They loot and pillage, they are an excellent mix of part 'thief' and warrior. I love their mentality, its perfectly fitting for the world they live in! Why obtain something peacefully when you have the means to get it your own way?
Of course, I'm basing this on what little i've seen of them so far as I haven't read the books!
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On April 26 2012 06:17 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 04:33 Incognoto wrote:
The Greyjoys are idiots imo. And traitors. The whole idea of the iron price is ridiculous and belligerent. Did you buy it or did you steal it from a dead man's corpse? Oh you bought it? Oh you aren't a raving murderer, you tried to obtain something peacefully? You suck. They remind me of pirates/vikings. What do you expect, it's their culture. They loot and pillage, they are an excellent mix of part 'thief' and warrior. I love their mentality, its perfectly fitting for the world they live in! Why obtain something peacefully when you have the means to get it your own way? Of course, I'm basing this on what little i've seen of them so far as I haven't read the books!
Oh, It's cultural? Well, then it is perfectly ok 
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EPT
