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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 08 2011 10:40 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 09:43 OrchidThief wrote:On June 08 2011 09:40 LGDArm wrote:On June 08 2011 08:39 never_toss wrote:ahhh so thats why he said the seed is strong lol  But so.. if it was Stannis, why would he put that should the rightful heir come of age? Isnt he already an adult? Exactly, Stannis is already of age. Ned couldn't just write "to the rightful heir, Stannis", because Robert was going to sign it. The way Ned wrote it would prevent Joffrey from taking the throne (assuming Cersei/rest of Council didn't ignore the letter completely) and not make it look suspicious to Robert. I was sad they didn't make a bigger deal out of that point. I mean, there was about two scenes between Ned including the "rightful heir" -part and Cersei tearing the letter up. I wish she'd kept it or that it somehow would be preserved so it might return later in the show and play a bigger part. Nono, you guys misunderstood. The basic concept of succession means that Robert's offspring is next in the line for throne after his death, not his brothers. Stannis, as an older one would become a regent (basically a king) until a rightful heir would come of age. The thing here is that Joffrey wasn't of age at the time and the whole ruse by Ned was to stall his crowning until he can proove that none of Cersei's children are Robert's, thus stripping them of any rights to the throne. Still, it would most likely mean that Stannis would remain king because as far as I know bastards don't inherit any succession rights (which was also clearly explained by Jon Snow when he was talking to Samwise Tarly before they took an oath), thus denying it to Gendry and other numerous bastards Robert produced. Is this more clear to you now?
Actually, the letter that Robert intended was that Ned would be regent until Joffrey came to age, not Stannis.
What Robert intended: Regent: Ned, Heir: Joffrey
What Ned intended: Regent: Ned (alternatively no regent, as Stannis would be of age and could be crowned immediately), Heir: Stannis
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Ned stark was a bloody idiot. He should of taken up renlys offer D:
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Guys. What?
I thought it was Ed, not Ned.
The character guide says "Eddard Stark."
Since when does Ed = Ned? or.. what the hell's going on here. O_o
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On June 08 2011 11:31 Crazyeyes wrote:
Guys. What?
I thought it was Ed, not Ned.
The character guide says "Eddard Stark."
Since when does Ed = Ned? or.. what the hell's going on here. O_o
His name is Eddard and he is known as Ned, not Ed.
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In the books he's called Ned by people close to him. Robert and Cat mostly call him this.
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On June 08 2011 09:29 skeldark wrote:
I have a problem perhaps you guys can help me.
I watched the Game of Thrones and really enjoy it. So i decided to buy the books.
BUT:
Now i know the story of the first book and its really long.
I don't know what to do. Read nr.1 frist or buy nr.2?
Sure the book will give you much more background and it is total different to a movie but i feel like reading so many pages when you already know the story can be quit boring.
Are there big story part in book nr.1 that are not in the movies?
I started reading the book as of ep 7 and by the time ep8 came out i'm 75% through the book.
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On June 08 2011 10:49 1Eris1 wrote:
Guys it's really simple. Sucession is
1. Eldest male child (Joffrey)
2. Next oldest male child, etc (Tommen)
3. After all male children, Eldest female child (Myrcella)
4. Next oldest female child, etc (None in this case)
5. Oldest brother of the King, (Stannis)
6. Next oldest brother, etc (Renly)
7. Oldest sister (None)
8. Next oldest sistes, etc (None)
9. Cousins/nephews, not really sure.
The point is, because Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are born of incest, Stannis is the true heir now. And when Stannis dies, the next king would be Stannis's eldest son if he has one, or if not, you follow the list.
(Meaning the son of Stannis would get the crown over Renly)
Depends. On the Iron Throne, only men may rule. Queens can only rule as a reagent until the son is of age.
So #3, #4, #7, and #8 are invalid.
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On June 08 2011 11:44 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 10:49 1Eris1 wrote:
Guys it's really simple. Sucession is
1. Eldest male child (Joffrey)
2. Next oldest male child, etc (Tommen)
3. After all male children, Eldest female child (Myrcella)
4. Next oldest female child, etc (None in this case)
5. Oldest brother of the King, (Stannis)
6. Next oldest brother, etc (Renly)
7. Oldest sister (None)
8. Next oldest sistes, etc (None)
9. Cousins/nephews, not really sure.
The point is, because Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are born of incest, Stannis is the true heir now. And when Stannis dies, the next king would be Stannis's eldest son if he has one, or if not, you follow the list.
(Meaning the son of Stannis would get the crown over Renly) Depends. On the Iron Throne, only men may rule. Queens can only rule as a reagent until the son is of age. So #3, #4, #7, and #8 are invalid.
Is that ever specifically stated? I thought that was only a Targayen rule after the whole Dance of Dragons war.
I guess it doesn't matter though. Because Myrcella would fit under the same blanket as Joffrey (being Jaime's child, not Robert)
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On June 08 2011 11:44 dcemuser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 10:49 1Eris1 wrote:
Guys it's really simple. Sucession is
1. Eldest male child (Joffrey)
2. Next oldest male child, etc (Tommen)
3. After all male children, Eldest female child (Myrcella)
4. Next oldest female child, etc (None in this case)
5. Oldest brother of the King, (Stannis)
6. Next oldest brother, etc (Renly)
7. Oldest sister (None)
8. Next oldest sistes, etc (None)
9. Cousins/nephews, not really sure.
The point is, because Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are born of incest, Stannis is the true heir now. And when Stannis dies, the next king would be Stannis's eldest son if he has one, or if not, you follow the list.
(Meaning the son of Stannis would get the crown over Renly) Depends. On the Iron Throne, only men may rule. Queens can only rule as a reagent until the son is of age. So #3, #4, #7, and #8 are invalid.
Women can rule. They'e just last in line of succession. Nowhere in the series or the books does it state that Women cant rule. In Dorne males don't even get preference.
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On June 08 2011 11:54 SpectralFremen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 11:44 dcemuser wrote:On June 08 2011 10:49 1Eris1 wrote:
Guys it's really simple. Sucession is
1. Eldest male child (Joffrey)
2. Next oldest male child, etc (Tommen)
3. After all male children, Eldest female child (Myrcella)
4. Next oldest female child, etc (None in this case)
5. Oldest brother of the King, (Stannis)
6. Next oldest brother, etc (Renly)
7. Oldest sister (None)
8. Next oldest sistes, etc (None)
9. Cousins/nephews, not really sure.
The point is, because Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are born of incest, Stannis is the true heir now. And when Stannis dies, the next king would be Stannis's eldest son if he has one, or if not, you follow the list.
(Meaning the son of Stannis would get the crown over Renly) Depends. On the Iron Throne, only men may rule. Queens can only rule as a reagent until the son is of age. So #3, #4, #7, and #8 are invalid. Women can rule. They'e just last in line of succession. Nowhere in the series or the books does it state that Women cant rule. In Dorne males don't even get preference.
Dorne is quite different from the other kingdoms though. I got the impression that basically women can only rule as regent as dcemuser says.
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MURICA15980 Posts
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On June 08 2011 11:58 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2011 11:54 SpectralFremen wrote:On June 08 2011 11:44 dcemuser wrote:On June 08 2011 10:49 1Eris1 wrote:
Guys it's really simple. Sucession is
1. Eldest male child (Joffrey)
2. Next oldest male child, etc (Tommen)
3. After all male children, Eldest female child (Myrcella)
4. Next oldest female child, etc (None in this case)
5. Oldest brother of the King, (Stannis)
6. Next oldest brother, etc (Renly)
7. Oldest sister (None)
8. Next oldest sistes, etc (None)
9. Cousins/nephews, not really sure.
The point is, because Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are born of incest, Stannis is the true heir now. And when Stannis dies, the next king would be Stannis's eldest son if he has one, or if not, you follow the list.
(Meaning the son of Stannis would get the crown over Renly) Depends. On the Iron Throne, only men may rule. Queens can only rule as a reagent until the son is of age. So #3, #4, #7, and #8 are invalid. Women can rule. They'e just last in line of succession. Nowhere in the series or the books does it state that Women cant rule. In Dorne males don't even get preference. Dorne is quite different from the other kingdoms though. I got the impression that basically women can only rule as regent as dcemuser says.
There has only been one queen who 'ruled' during the civil war known as the Dance of the Dragons. She was killed at the end of it and the law changed so that Females only inherited when there was no males in the line of succession. They can still inherit though there just hasnt been a situation where there was no males left.
For the most part the Targaryen's were quite a fertile lot, the biggest killers of them through there history was themselves.
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i posted spoilers from the books
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^^^^^^^^
In smaller houses this can be true, but in the larger southern houses(Lannister, Baratheon, Tyrell, Martel, Arryn) each house extends so far back they have numerous off-branches such that its basically impossible for this to occur unless the entire line is destroyed. This almost happened to the Targaryens, as they were a great house, but they were relatively small due to inbreeding to keep the line pure, unlike most other houses. The Starks are also a small house, but this is due to the North being sparse and each man having to pull their weight, unlike the South.
The only way for Myrcella to rule(assuming she was Roberts daughter) is if the entire Baratheon Line was killed, which would amount to killing like 1/10 the population of Westeros(Baratheon Lords and all their men).
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Thats assuming everyone follows the letter of the law. I think you should all be well aware just how closely westoros lords follow the letter of the law when it comes to the rights to the iron throne. As long as ANY of Roberts "children" are alive, Myrcella or otherwise the Lannisters have a claim to the throne they will fight to hold onto.
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I think you are missing the point, martin is clearly demonstrating how rules and laws of man are just 'virtual' concept. In the end it all comes down to steel and blood who makes the rules or not. This case can woman or bastards herit or not.
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On June 08 2011 10:10 d.o.c wrote:
I'm doing this backwards. I had never heard of the books and I catch up after watching each episode. I'm going to commit a sacrilege here and say that I think the show is better. (just like True Blood is better than stackhouse chronicles)
Alltho ofc the show is very good, the book is way better, i advice you to read on in the book and then watch the show i am pretty sure you will change your opinion.
As a sidenote: was it just me or did Osha look really really hot?
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MURICA15980 Posts
Did not find her particularly attractive, no. haha.
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On June 08 2011 15:50 Klogon wrote:
Did not find her particularly attractive, no. haha.
Gonna go with this regarding her physical appearance lol.
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EPT
