EPTTheorycrafting, the blacksmith boy known to be Robert's "bastard" might indeed not be a bastard. He might actually be Robert and Cersei's first son, which according to Cersei she lost when he was a kid. We notice how the kid also gives a brief description of her mother, which could actually be Cersei. Given this fact, the rightful heir would be this kid, since he would be the first son and not a bastard... a good reason also to kill John Arren, for investigating this troubles to the Lannister house (kid not being fully lanister).
[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 213
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
Theorycrafting, the blacksmith boy known to be Robert's "bastard" might indeed not be a bastard. He might actually be Robert and Cersei's first son, which according to Cersei she lost when he was a kid. We notice how the kid also gives a brief description of her mother, which could actually be Cersei. Given this fact, the rightful heir would be this kid, since he would be the first son and not a bastard... a good reason also to kill John Arren, for investigating this troubles to the Lannister house (kid not being fully lanister). | ||
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duckii
Germany1017 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:02 never_toss wrote: I want to speculate on something i saw at king Robert's death. Stark changed the kings wordings so it would say "my rightful heir" on the paper. Though this paper was torn, I am baffled as to whom it may be. Theorycrafting, the blacksmith boy known to be Robert's "bastard" might indeed not be a bastard. He might actually be Robert and Cersei's first son, which according to Cersei she lost when he was a kid. We notice how the kid also gives a brief description of her mother, which could actually be Cersei. Given this fact, the rightful heir would be this kid, since he would be the first son and not a bastard... a good reason also to kill John Arren, for investigating this troubles to the Lannister house (kid not being fully lanister). I doubt Robert would give his firstborn to a smith | ||
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-Frog-
United States514 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:02 never_toss wrote: I want to speculate on something i saw at king Robert's death. Stark changed the kings wordings so it would say "my rightful heir" on the paper. Though this paper was torn, I am baffled as to whom it may be. Theorycrafting, the blacksmith boy known to be Robert's "bastard" might indeed not be a bastard. He might actually be Robert and Cersei's first son, which according to Cersei she lost when he was a kid. We notice how the kid also gives a brief description of her mother, which could actually be Cersei. Given this fact, the rightful heir would be this kid, since he would be the first son and not a bastard... a good reason also to kill John Arren, for investigating this troubles to the Lannister house (kid not being fully lanister). Given that Ned tells Littlefinger that Stannis is the rightful king I thought that is who he was referring to by "rightful heir." The blacksmith boy (Gendry) can't be anything other than a bastard because he was born out of marriage. If he is Robert's child then he is a bastard because I'm not sure we have any reason to doubt that Cersei and Robert's first son didn't die at childbirth. That's the story Cersei told Cat and though it could have been a lie I don't see too much evidence to the contrary. Also didn't Gendry tell Ned that his mother died? I'll have to rewatch that part of the episode but I think that's what happened. Unsure. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On June 08 2011 04:02 never_toss wrote: I want to speculate on something i saw at king Robert's death. Stark changed the kings wordings so it would say "my rightful heir" on the paper. Though this paper was torn, I am baffled as to whom it may be. Theorycrafting, the blacksmith boy known to be Robert's "bastard" might indeed not be a bastard. He might actually be Robert and Cersei's first son, which according to Cersei she lost when he was a kid. We notice how the kid also gives a brief description of her mother, which could actually be Cersei. Given this fact, the rightful heir would be this kid, since he would be the first son and not a bastard... a good reason also to kill John Arren, for investigating this troubles to the Lannister house (kid not being fully lanister). Ned tells both Littlefinger and Renly that Stannis is the rightful heir. It's pretty pointed in the Renly scene as they are actually arguing about whether Stannis or Renly should be king. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17694 Posts
On June 08 2011 06:32 Curu wrote: Ned tells both Littlefinger and Renly that Stannis is the rightful heir. It's pretty pointed in the Renly scene as they are actually arguing about whether Stannis or Renly should be king. Also, if you paid attention, you'd notice that Ned sent Stannis a testimony of Cersei's and Jamie's incest (where he sends a missive to him, informing said missive to deliver it to Stannis' hands only, shortly before the coup). Gendry is a bastard, but he, and other bastards were there mostly for the purpose of showing the black hair (the seed is strong, Ned later checks with the book that all lords of house Baratheon had black hair, before Joffrey of course). | ||
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
 But so.. if it was Stannis, why would he put that should the rightful heir come of age? Isnt he already an adult? | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
I watched the Game of Thrones and really enjoy it. So i decided to buy the books. BUT: Now i know the story of the first book and its really long. I don't know what to do. Read nr.1 frist or buy nr.2? Sure the book will give you much more background and it is total different to a movie but i feel like reading so many pages when you already know the story can be quit boring. Are there big story part in book nr.1 that are not in the movies? | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14908 Posts
On June 08 2011 08:39 never_toss wrote: ahhh so thats why he said the seed is strong lol But so.. if it was Stannis, why would he put that should the rightful heir come of age? Isnt he already an adult? He couldn't just put stannis' name on there because that would make it look like he was superceding Robert's desire. Robert wanted the kingdom to go to his heir, and since those kids aren't his, they aren't his true heir. The fact that Stannis is already an adult is irrelevant, he's still the heir and by right should be king | ||
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LGDArm
Canada27 Posts
On June 08 2011 08:39 never_toss wrote: ahhh so thats why he said the seed is strong lol But so.. if it was Stannis, why would he put that should the rightful heir come of age? Isnt he already an adult? Exactly, Stannis is already of age. Ned couldn't just write "to the rightful heir, Stannis", because Robert was going to sign it. The way Ned wrote it would prevent Joffrey from taking the throne (assuming Cersei/rest of Council didn't ignore the letter completely) and not make it look suspicious to Robert. | ||
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OrchidThief
Denmark2298 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:29 skeldark wrote: I have a problem perhaps you guys can help me. I watched the Game of Thrones and really enjoy it. So i decided to buy the books. BUT: Now i know the story of the first book and its really long. I don't know what to do. Read nr.1 frist or buy nr.2? Sure the book will give you much more background and it is total different to a movie but i feel like reading so many pages when you already know the story can be quit boring. Are there big story part in book nr.1 that are not in the movies? Judging by the fact that the first half of the posts in this thread was "Ewww that's not what they did in the books, HBO sucks" -- I'm gonna venture a guess and say yes. In general you can't ever substitute a book with a movie/series. | ||
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OrchidThief
Denmark2298 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:40 LGDArm wrote: Exactly, Stannis is already of age. Ned couldn't just write "to the rightful heir, Stannis", because Robert was going to sign it. The way Ned wrote it would prevent Joffrey from taking the throne (assuming Cersei/rest of Council didn't ignore the letter completely) and not make it look suspicious to Robert. I was sad they didn't make a bigger deal out of that point. I mean, there was about two scenes between Ned including the "rightful heir" -part and Cersei tearing the letter up. I wish she'd kept it or that it somehow would be preserved so it might return later in the show and play a bigger part. | ||
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WiljushkA
Serbia1416 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:29 skeldark wrote: I have a problem perhaps you guys can help me. I watched the Game of Thrones and really enjoy it. So i decided to buy the books. BUT: Now i know the story of the first book and its really long. I don't know what to do. Read nr.1 frist or buy nr.2? Sure the book will give you much more background and it is total different to a movie but i feel like reading so many pages when you already know the story can be quit boring. Are there big story part in book nr.1 that are not in the movies? how bout you try reading the book, and if you like it you continue reading it, or if you find it boring, i dunno, maybe dont read it? beats asking what to do on the internets | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:48 WiljushkA wrote: how bout you try reading the book, and if you like it you continue reading it, or if you find it boring, i dunno, maybe dont read it? beats asking what to do on the internets i have to buy it first ^^ | ||
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:41 OrchidThief wrote: Judging by the fact that the first half of the posts in this thread was "Ewww that's not what they did in the books, HBO sucks" -- I'm gonna venture a guess and say yes. In general you can't ever substitute a book with a movie/series. Actually HBO has been pretty accurate, as far as book to film adaptations go. But I would still say read them. Sure, they won't be quite as gripping since you know what's going to happen, but their are all sorts of things in the book like old stories/legends, more character backround (Tyrion's relationship with his father comes to mind), stuff that character's are thinking, and dreams(Bran's dream with the crow is one of my favorite chapters in the series). Oh, and more direwolf action. | ||
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:29 skeldark wrote: I have a problem perhaps you guys can help me. I watched the Game of Thrones and really enjoy it. So i decided to buy the books. BUT: Now i know the story of the first book and its really long. I don't know what to do. Read nr.1 frist or buy nr.2? Sure the book will give you much more background and it is total different to a movie but i feel like reading so many pages when you already know the story can be quit boring. Are there big story part in book nr.1 that are not in the movies? As other people as suggested, I highly recommend you start from the first book, prologue and everything. | ||
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d.o.c
United States49 Posts
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WiljushkA
Serbia1416 Posts
try and rent it in a library if you can. imo theres enough in the book that didnt make it into the show to justify reading it, and the writing style and the "feel" of the books are imo superiour, but of course , tastes differ and you cant know how much youll like it till you try it. | ||
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Takezou
United States320 Posts
I have a biased opinion but you should buy book 1. There are tons of minor details in the books that flesh out various characters. Also, even if you have seen the series it may actually help you pick up on stuff in the books that someone might miss on their first read through. Either way enjoy the series. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17694 Posts
On June 08 2011 09:43 OrchidThief wrote: I was sad they didn't make a bigger deal out of that point. I mean, there was about two scenes between Ned including the "rightful heir" -part and Cersei tearing the letter up. I wish she'd kept it or that it somehow would be preserved so it might return later in the show and play a bigger part. Nono, you guys misunderstood. The basic concept of succession means that Robert's offspring is next in the line for throne after his death, not his brothers. Stannis, as an older one would become a regent (basically a king) until a rightful heir would come of age. The thing here is that Joffrey wasn't of age at the time and the whole ruse by Ned was to stall his crowning until he can proove that none of Cersei's children are Robert's, thus stripping them of any rights to the throne. Still, it would most likely mean that Stannis would remain king because as far as I know bastards don't inherit any succession rights (which was also clearly explained by Jon Snow when he was talking to Samwise Tarly before they took an oath), thus denying it to Gendry and other numerous bastards Robert produced. Is this more clear to you now? | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
1. Eldest male child (Joffrey) 2. Next oldest male child, etc (Tommen) 3. After all male children, Eldest female child (Myrcella) 4. Next oldest female child, etc (None in this case) 5. Oldest brother of the King, (Stannis) 6. Next oldest brother, etc (Renly) 7. Oldest sister (None) 8. Next oldest sistes, etc (None) 9. Cousins/nephews, not really sure. The point is, because Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are born of incest, Stannis is the true heir now. And when Stannis dies, the next king would be Stannis's eldest son if he has one, or if not, you follow the list. (Meaning the son of Stannis would get the crown over Renly) | ||
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