EPT[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1766
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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
On May 07 2019 07:13 TaKeTV wrote: "average author" jesus lol He certainly is a god worthy of a nobel prize compared to the shmucks who are in charge of the writing now... | ||
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farvacola
United States18838 Posts
On May 07 2019 07:28 diehilde wrote: He certainly is a god worthy of a nobel prize compared to the shmucks who are in charge of the writing now... That may be, but the later novels in the series trended towards being less and less satisfying for different reasons that still suggest that GRRM hadn't thought a lot about how he was going to tie things up. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
On May 07 2019 07:32 farvacola wrote: That may be, but the later novels in the series trended towards being less and less satisfying for different reasons that still suggest that GRRM hadn't thought a lot about how he was going to tie things up. Difficult to disagree but even great authors struggle sometimes. I don't think that makes him average. | ||
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
On May 07 2019 07:32 farvacola wrote: That may be, but the later novels in the series trended towards being less and less satisfying for different reasons that still suggest that GRRM hadn't thought a lot about how he was going to tie things up. Its pretty clear he has no real idea how to end it himself and is kinda lost with what he started... But that doesnt mean the show should have been opting for bland and cliched writing. They chose to go full generic hollywood series with it, they didnt have to. If GRRM himself couldnt do it, they could have hired other writers who could have come up with a little more creative and original plot ending. But they didnt want originality or tieing up what GRRM started. They took what they had and turned it into a 100% generic fantasy trope | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18115 Posts
Two things: 1) Cersei controls the Iron Throne, an army of mercenaries and a Kraken fleet who don't even control their own land anymore. Why does anybody give a fart about King's Landing? The Crown Lands are tiny and insignificant. Why fight there? People don't swear allegiance to a throne, they swear allegiance to a person. Daenerys has an alliance with the north, Dorne swore allegiance (apparently), the Vale and Riverrun have lost all agency, apparently, and just do what Sansa tells them. That's pretty much half the kingdom right there. Highgarden already fell, Take Storm's End and install Gendry as its actual lord, rather than in name only. Take Lannisport, which is probably completely undefended and then just let Cersei rot in King's Landing. Either she lets people out to go back about their business, or they start starving and revolt. Similarly, the Iron Bank will realize quite quickly they bet on the wrong horse, and that's the end of the Golden Company... and Euron without the Iron Isles is irrelevant except as a fearsome pirate fleet. Which brings me to my other point. 2) At least we know why the artillery was standing in front of the infantry... clearly her military strategists are complete idiots. They know that Euron Greyjoy is a fearsome admiral and that his fleet is scary. Yet somehow they don't use the dragons to scout. At all. And then they don't even notice the fleet is there until it's in firing range of the dragons. Also, if ballistas are such amazing weapons (not only vs dragons) how the hell isn't everybody using them? This isn't even new tech in Westeros, is it? It's just something Qyburn found in a book? Finally, all the reasons that Jon and Daenerys can't marry and rule together feel kludged. This is also causing Daenerys to become a dumbass, because the plot requires it. It's pretty bad writing. | ||
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farvacola
United States18838 Posts
On May 07 2019 07:38 TaKeTV wrote: Difficult to disagree but even great authors struggle sometimes. I don't think that makes him average. Indeed, I think the first half of the series or so does a lot of really great things, definitely at least above average fantasy. On May 07 2019 07:46 diehilde wrote: Its pretty clear he has no real idea how to end it himself and is kinda lost with what he started... But that doesnt mean the show should have been opting for bland and cliched writing. They chose to go full generic hollywood series with it, they didnt have to. If GRRM himself couldnt do it, they could have hired other writers who could have come up with a little more creative and original plot ending. But they didnt want originality or tieing up what GRRM started. They took what they had and turned it into a 100% generic fantasy trope Oh I agree on that point, some pretty fundamental aspects of the show (many of the ones that made it a good story to watch) have fallen by the wayside pretty steadily up until this season, and then the whole thing dropped off a cliff in a pretty fantastically bad way. It would be fascinating if it weren't so upsetting lol. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 07 2019 07:08 sharkie wrote: Well thats because endings of stories are always the most difficult to write. Not easy to do as an average authro This has nothing to do with being an "average" author, endings are hard period. A lot of great works have mediocre endings (compared to the rest). Now i have never read anything else of martin so i am not even sure how accurate the statement is in the first place, but the ending of a story in general is super hard to get just right. Now is martin an average author? I'd hardly agree with that sentiment, even less so if we look at genre fiction or even just fantasy. He obviously has weaknesses (his prose is nothing special, but it does its job for the most part), he arguably should have cut some things in the later books (though i still think that book 4 and 5 are thematically probably the best) and now the biggest one in the uncertainty if the series will ever be finished due to his lack of progress. Would he ever win a pulitzer or any other big prize in literature? No, but that doesn't make you an average author. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1199 Posts
 lets pray. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28707 Posts
On May 01 2019 22:45 Biff The Understudy wrote: There is a nice paper from David Hume about that. He basically agrees with you: there is objective quality to the arts, we know instinctively that Shakespeare is better than Dan Brown and that it has nothing to do with taste or popularity, but he also says that finding a fixed criteria is essentially impossible and that we cannot seem to make it into a science. He introduces the concept of the “true critique”, someone with enough knowledge and experience who can be trusted with saying what is what. It’s not very satisfactory, but you guys are trying to crack one of the hardest problems of aesthetics. Even though it sounds kind of elitist, I think Hume’s position is, if not totally convincing, a good compromise. It just happens that no one serious about his stuff and armed with the necessary knowledge will put Bieber songs above Beethoven late string quartets, argue against the fact that Van Gogh is a great painter, or compare favourably Twilight against Barry Lindon because they are simply absurd propositions. So, his advice is, just listen to people who really know the field  The issue is the term 'objective'. Simply saying 'intersubjective' instead is much better, because that's what people actually mean. Pink Floyd being of 'greater musical quality' than say, myself screaming atonally while scratching a blackboard with rusty nails covered with chalk is so obvious that you might get nearly universal agreement in a way that makes you consider it an objective fact, but it's not. It's just that virtually all people agree. For it to be objective it would have to be quantifiable, and it's not. If it were possible to 'objectively' evaluate music (or other culture), then you would not just be able to make statements like 'shakespeare is better than dan brown' or 'beethoven > bieber', you'd also be able to accurately rank bach, beethoven, mozart, or shakespeare, tolstoj, dickens and hemingway. IF objective measures existed and we were able to map them out (I do to some degree agree with this possibility!), it would have to be (for music) something like which frequencies resonate or harmonize the best with the greatest amount of people, and a computer would become far superior at creating art than any human could ever dream of being. Basically, everybody needs to accept that they are just giving their opinion. At the same time, some opinions are more well-founded than other opinions. That's the case for most subjects I can think of. It does not elevate the more well-founded opinions to objective statements of fact. The point with critics isn't to establish art as objectively good or objectively bad, it's to establish a language through which consumers of art of various kinds can utilize to evaluate whether they will like a piece of art based on how they liked art they experienced in the past and how this new art measures up against the old art. It's a very useful tool for people, like me, who know that I tend to appreciate stuff appreciated by critics more than I appreciate stuff that isn't appreciated by critics. But the notion that my own taste is superior to that of other people simply because I tend to agree more with people who 'know what they are talking about' is laughable. I just happen to prefer what I prefer. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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aseq
Netherlands3987 Posts
- Good mix between plot, conversation and action. - I can buy Qyburn completing research for max level x-bows. These can be relatively fast to recharge and can just reach Rheagal. Qyburn has been obsessed with these things for a while now...and it's good to have dragons that aren't op. - Jaime and Brienne hooking up before Jaime leaves was in the air for so long already. But Jaime leaving for Cersei (to do what exactly?) is understandable as well. Although it's strange to just let him go south without even communicating and possibly allow him to spy is odd. They only recently placed their trust in Jaime. - Sansa learning Jon's secret and immediately trying to use it for her own agenda, nice. - Danny getting frustrated and wanting the throne sooner than later is brilliant imo. It creates tension, maybe causes her to make mistakes, it feels very Targaryen (mad Queen incoming?) although I don't think it should be such a problem to marry Jon. My only problem with this character change is that there's too little show left, this needs time to develop before it becomes a reason to kill or hate her. - Tyrion and Varys' allegiance talk is great. They're two characters who think about the bigger picture and start to question the mad queen, very understandable. This scene felt like old GoT to me. - Cersei wanting to behead Missandei in front of the delegation is understandable, she's cruel enough. Her not killing the entire party + dragon is unlike her. Things that need to be explained: - Is Arya still a noone? I'm completely missing any reference to her skills in this area. Seems all those years of training were for nothing? - Did Bran actually use the crows in the last episode for anything? Does he have any purpose except just being bait for the NK and being a lie detector? edit: Oh and Drone, i'm going to start using "objective is just intersubjective". Thanks! | ||
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Sermokala
United States14047 Posts
Lost season 1-2 As good as lost season 4-6 was bad. And thats including the epicly bullshit purgatory ending. I don't think the directors are up their own ass enough to do a lost bad ending. | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10660 Posts
I lost all hope. Let Cersei win and let the remaining fans rage. THAT will be entertaining. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4139 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On May 07 2019 07:46 diehilde wrote: Its pretty clear he has no real idea how to end it himself and is kinda lost with what he started... But that doesnt mean the show should have been opting for bland and cliched writing. They chose to go full generic hollywood series with it, they didnt have to. If GRRM himself couldnt do it, they could have hired other writers who could have come up with a little more creative and original plot ending. But they didnt want originality or tieing up what GRRM started. They took what they had and turned it into a 100% generic fantasy trope Going creative and dramatic is where the show is failing right now. They are having Dany and Jon Snow's forces do stupid shit to up the dramatic tension then having them pull victory out of their ass. That's the opposite of GRRM's philosophy where doing stupid shit will get anyone killed. The military "strategy" is just absolutely horrible to anyone who has even played a few hours of Total War or any similar video game. It just feels the show writers absolutely don't care about that aspect of the story. Then again, the refusal to have Dany and Jon pull victories out of their ass may be why GRRM is unable to finish his story. | ||
KwarK
United States43222 Posts
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