On May 07 2019 22:47 Jockmcplop wrote: I thought it was part of the book lore that the last time there were dragons in Westeros at least one of them was killed by Lannister ballista type weapons. I could be wrong but I'm sure I heard that somewhere.
It's part of the lore, but it was described as a one in a million shot and involved the bolt piercing the eye of the dragon.
The idea of using balistas to shoot down dragons is laughable. Basically, Euron has some kind of superbalista with modern ball bearings and probably some hydraulic help to move it at the speed he does (all by himself). Without even considering the problem of reloading.
Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode. But yes, they should very obviously have treated this the way Tolkien (and based on that, Peter Jackson) treated Smaug, rather than somehow equipping an entire fleet with what are, by all appearances, some form of superweapon. They can kill dragons, they can sink fleets, and they can be reloaded in no time at all. And Cersei has dozens of them!
On May 07 2019 22:47 Jockmcplop wrote: I thought it was part of the book lore that the last time there were dragons in Westeros at least one of them was killed by Lannister ballista type weapons. I could be wrong but I'm sure I heard that somewhere.
It's part of the lore, but it was described as a one in a million shot and involved the bolt piercing the eye of the dragon.
it also happened 6 years into the war, with the dornish constantly doing surprise attacks and abandoning the castles whenever the dragons showed up. A real ambush attack, and still taking 6 or so years to hit the dragon.
edit: theres some crazy book theories on what happens afterwards to the rider Rhaenys, basically you would think she died after falling from her dragon. Aegon basically goes into a rage and burns all the castles (except sunspear), more time passes and dorne sends back the skull of the dragon meraxes with a letter with the intent of a truce. When the dragon skull is first seen by aegon and his remaining sister they're furious and aegon is going to refuse but upon reading the letter (his hands clenching so hard they're bleeding) he agrees. Its a theory that Rhaenys lived the fall (probably badly wounded) was captured and then kept alive and tortured/poisoned and the letter is saying they will let her die. I some what remeber him visiting a place in dorne (my mistake its actually dragonstone) after that but im not sure...if thats related (maybe it was to visit rhaenys before they let her die)
On May 07 2019 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode.
That feat must surely go the the Tyrion/Jaime exchange with Bronn, right?
On May 07 2019 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode.
That feat must surely go the the Tyrion/Jaime exchange with Bronn, right?
Unless they redeem it by just having Bronn crucified next time he shows up. Bronn goes “I thought we were friends” and Tyrion replies “dude, you literally pointed a crossbow at me and told me you were prepared to kill me if I didn’t pay you”.
Honestly the ballistas killing a dragon and murdering some ships are fine with me. I mean they had month (probably even years) to prepare for a Dragon attack. And Qyburn did other "miracles" before that. And they did hide behind a peninsula. And it was a surprise attack / ambush.
I am way more bothered by other stuff in this episode but overall it was kinda okay IMO.
On May 07 2019 23:55 sharkie wrote: I am expecting Euron to slaughter dozens of the best unsullied all on his own.
Ballistas killing dragons is fine, it still matters how you present it and how you connect all these different scenes together. One big problem here is that it again comes out of nowhere, if you set it up in a way it would work way better. Say we saw anyone from dany's camp betray her and send valuable information to cersei, the ambush instantly feels connected. At that point we would be less inclined to pick the actual scene apart as well, things like her not being able to see the ships but them apparently having line of sight to be able to shoot at her. A big problem of the scene is that the death of the dragon happens but it's really just a side effect, he instantly gets hit with 100% accuracy, dies and there is nothing impactful about it, it feels like a checklist point, nothing else. Then they fire dozens of these spears and nothing hits, while dany charges at them. There is no dramatic payoff in that sequence whatsoever.
On May 07 2019 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode.
That feat must surely go the the Tyrion/Jaime exchange with Bronn, right?
Dany and Tyrion not getting a rain of ballista shots after the execution is just stupid. I mean really, they were right there Cersei...
I agree that the random Bronn teleporting to the north for a 2min chat felt really out of place and absurd
On May 08 2019 00:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: Ballistas killing dragons is fine, it still matters how you present it and how you connect all these different scenes together. One big problem here is that it again comes out of nowhere, if you set it up in a way it would work way better. Say we saw anyone from dany's camp betray her and send valuable information to cersei, the ambush instantly feels connected. At that point we would be less inclined to pick the actual scene apart as well, things like her not being able to see the ships but them apparently having line of sight to be able to shoot at her. A big problem of the scene is that the death of the dragon happens but it's really just a side effect, he instantly gets hit with 100% accuracy, dies and there is nothing impactful about it, it feels like a checklist point, nothing else. Then they fire dozens of these spears and nothing hits, while dany charges at them. There is no dramatic payoff in that sequence whatsoever.
What should be the biggest consequence of the dragon dying is that it showed dragons are beatable. Maybe not easily beatable, but it should weigh in heavily when other leaders, like Sansa for example, consider independence.
What would counteract this would be Dany burning down King's Landing mercilessly. Imo, it's the only way for her to become actual queen and not have every kingdom declare their independence. Being thankful for saving the world from the whitewalkers is enough for Jon to follow her because that was his whole mission, but it probably won't be enough for most other people.
On May 07 2019 17:35 love2d wrote: I figured it out, lads.
Premise:
It is known that through The Lord of Light, it is possible to reanimate the dead.
It is also known that the Faceless Men can take the faces of people who are different sizes.
So hear me out and stay tuned for another epic 'YAS QUEEN, SLAY!' moment!
Arya's Blink ability is currently on cooldown, so she's riding to King's Landing on horseback. Who is also on his way to King's Landing? Jaime.
Arya and the Hound get talking and Sandor explains how he has unfinished business with his brother.
Arya, already prone to taking over eight-season-long character arcs thinks that's a swell idea. But wait! Valyrian steel doesn't one-hit some corpse that Qyburn reanimated, so Arya needs a bigger body.
In expectation subverting #queen style, she teleports behind Jaime, whispers in his ear 'the things I do for love', which doesn't make sense but is a line we remember from an earlier season, so it's kinda epic, and slays him.
Wearing his face, she walks through the gates of King's Landing and nobody minds. She then teleports behind Robert Strong, whispers 'Sandor Clegane sends his regards', epic style, another callback, and stabs the Mountain.
Only one name left on her list. Cersei.
But Qyburn, who for some reason doesn't seem to have his own interests and just want to serve his #queen, has transformed Cersei into Mecha-Cersei, who is now as tall as the Red Keep and made completely out of iron.
Arya's biggest challenge yet!
In another epic callback, we see a training montage with Syrio Forell and Jaqen H'gar. Remember when Jaqen told her that the rules never said she can only wear the faces of people, Air Bud style? D&D remember, and aspiring to create something just as epic as Air Bud, they subvert their final expectation.
Arya wears the face of Rhaegal, emerges from the sea a massive dragon. She says 'now I guess Cersei's gotta hear me roar', while looking into the camera, shrugging.
She melts down Mecha Cersei into a big iron puddle.
The puddle cools down, Jon and Dany ascend the trone, #couplegoals style. They kiss. One last joke about Jon being short and Varys having no balls, fade to black.
The scene fades into the new Iron Throne. Cerseis molten face quips 'And now my watch has ended', in a final epic callback to something she, or was it someone else, said earlier, I think.
On May 07 2019 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode.
That feat must surely go the the Tyrion/Jaime exchange with Bronn, right?
Dany and Tyrion not getting a rain of ballista shots after the execution is just stupid. I mean really, they were right there Cersei...
I agree that the random Bronn teleporting to the north for a 2min chat felt really out of place and absurd
The teleportation I didn't mind. It's the absurd notion that Tyrion and Jaime would actually follow through with a promise made at gun-point and would not sick their guards on him at the first opportunity. Also that Bronn believes their absurd promise.
Edit: It's also bizarre that the hand of the queen has no guards and that an assassin can walk through the front door for a little chat.
On May 07 2019 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode.
That feat must surely go the the Tyrion/Jaime exchange with Bronn, right?
Dany and Tyrion not getting a rain of ballista shots after the execution is just stupid. I mean really, they were right there Cersei...
I agree that the random Bronn teleporting to the north for a 2min chat felt really out of place and absurd
The teleportation I didn't mind. It's the absurd notion that Tyrion and Jaime would actually follow through with a promise made at gun-point and would not sick their guards on him at the first opportunity. Also that Bronn believes their absurd promise.
Edit: It's also bizarre that the hand of the queen has no guards and that an assassin can walk through the front door for a little chat.
Honestly the worst part of the Bronn scene is that god damned crossbow reminded me of when this show had characters do meaningful things
On May 07 2019 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode.
That feat must surely go the the Tyrion/Jaime exchange with Bronn, right?
Dany and Tyrion not getting a rain of ballista shots after the execution is just stupid. I mean really, they were right there Cersei...
I agree that the random Bronn teleporting to the north for a 2min chat felt really out of place and absurd
The teleportation I didn't mind. It's the absurd notion that Tyrion and Jaime would actually follow through with a promise made at gun-point and would not sick their guards on him at the first opportunity. Also that Bronn believes their absurd promise.
Edit: It's also bizarre that the hand of the queen has no guards and that an assassin can walk through the front door for a little chat.
Ned Stark never seemed to have guards. Bron is a crafty guy too. I can believe get got in without much issue, especially after a big battle and a huge party. Bron also seemed desperate too. Like he at the end of his rope with this entire war. It is a mechanical scene to deal with that character, but not one that was completely unbelievable.
I think I should join whining parade at this point.
All the characters are just black or white last few seasons, when the show has started there was fifty shades of grey. And now Bronn is just a moron, Sansa is a the mastermind, Arya is a superhero, Cersei is a supervillain, aand Night King was a fluke.
Show became one dimensional with lots of pointless actions, scenes.
Leaving Ghost like that? Seriously? We don't even know how did it survived the undead horde.
You guys remember Sandsnakes? They wasn't that bad after all considering what we got left from a complicated plot.
Does anyone see CGI soldiers marching on 0-22 0-23? Or am I mad?
On May 07 2019 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode.
That feat must surely go the the Tyrion/Jaime exchange with Bronn, right?
Dany and Tyrion not getting a rain of ballista shots after the execution is just stupid. I mean really, they were right there Cersei...
I agree that the random Bronn teleporting to the north for a 2min chat felt really out of place and absurd
The teleportation I didn't mind. It's the absurd notion that Tyrion and Jaime would actually follow through with a promise made at gun-point and would not sick their guards on him at the first opportunity. Also that Bronn believes their absurd promise.
Edit: It's also bizarre that the hand of the queen has no guards and that an assassin can walk through the front door for a little chat.
Ned Stark never seemed to have guards. Bron is a crafty guy too. I can believe get got in without much issue, especially after a big battle and a huge party. Bron also seemed desperate too. Like he at the end of his rope with this entire war. It is a mechanical scene to deal with that character, but not one that was completely unbelievable.
If Bronn wanted a big bag of gold for not killing them that’d be one thing. He ambushes them with a crossbow, they hand it over, he crosses to Essos. But he wants Highgarden. It’s not like they can leave it at a drop point for one of his associates to pick up while he lets them go free. Dany can just give it away to someone else five minutes later. Hell, apparently all you need to do to win the Game of Thrones is point a crossbow at Jaime. Littlefinger was wasting his time.
On May 07 2019 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode.
That feat must surely go the the Tyrion/Jaime exchange with Bronn, right?
Dany and Tyrion not getting a rain of ballista shots after the execution is just stupid. I mean really, they were right there Cersei...
I agree that the random Bronn teleporting to the north for a 2min chat felt really out of place and absurd
The teleportation I didn't mind. It's the absurd notion that Tyrion and Jaime would actually follow through with a promise made at gun-point and would not sick their guards on him at the first opportunity. Also that Bronn believes their absurd promise.
Edit: It's also bizarre that the hand of the queen has no guards and that an assassin can walk through the front door for a little chat.
Ned Stark never seemed to have guards. Bron is a crafty guy too. I can believe get got in without much issue, especially after a big battle and a huge party. Bron also seemed desperate too. Like he at the end of his rope with this entire war. It is a mechanical scene to deal with that character, but not one that was completely unbelievable.
Ned almost always had guards. It was a major plot point that he sent 1/2 of his house guards after the Mountain which meant his retainer when he visited a brothel on Littlefinger's behalf was too small to fight off the enraged Jaime which caused Ned to suffer an injury leading to him being stuck in King's Landing where Robert could calm down and convince him to stay which drove the rest of his arc.
Many of the times Neds goes out somewhere Jory is there (prior to his death) with Ned, and when Ned is in his chambers there seem to be guards posted outside pretty consistently, though I'd imagine in the Tower of the Hand he would more or less not need a constant guard because the tower is filled with his guards in general.
On May 07 2019 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Shooting down a flying dragon with it is absurd. But having amazing artillery is far from the dumbest part of this episode.
That feat must surely go the the Tyrion/Jaime exchange with Bronn, right?
Dany and Tyrion not getting a rain of ballista shots after the execution is just stupid. I mean really, they were right there Cersei...
I agree that the random Bronn teleporting to the north for a 2min chat felt really out of place and absurd
The teleportation I didn't mind. It's the absurd notion that Tyrion and Jaime would actually follow through with a promise made at gun-point and would not sick their guards on him at the first opportunity. Also that Bronn believes their absurd promise.
Edit: It's also bizarre that the hand of the queen has no guards and that an assassin can walk through the front door for a little chat.
Ned Stark never seemed to have guards. Bron is a crafty guy too. I can believe get got in without much issue, especially after a big battle and a huge party. Bron also seemed desperate too. Like he at the end of his rope with this entire war. It is a mechanical scene to deal with that character, but not one that was completely unbelievable.
Ned almost always had guards. It was a major plot point that he sent 1/2 of his house guards after the Mountain which meant his retainer when he visited a brothel on Littlefinger's behalf was too small to fight off the enraged Jaime which caused Ned to suffer an injury leading to him being stuck in King's Landing where Robert could calm down and convince him to stay which drove the rest of his arc.
Many of the times Neds goes out somewhere Jory is there (prior to his death) with Ned, and when Ned is in his chambers there seem to be guards posted outside pretty consistently, though I'd imagine in the Tower of the Hand he would more or less not need a constant guard because the tower is filled with his guards in general.
All right, I stand corrected. It has been a while since I saw season 1. It is a weird scene for sure and they don't put in the work to explain how Bronn got past. That could have been easy to do too. Just a couple of lines back and forth.
EPT
