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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Germany25649 Posts
On May 06 2019 15:38 zatic wrote:
Guys can you stop it with the spoiler tags please? The point of this thread is to discuss the episode after it aired. No need for spoiler tags.
Haha I feel like a proud dad when everybody is using spoiler tags for everything.
It's like the first 5 seasons where we banned hundreds of people finally worked!
But yes, maybe a tiny bit pointless now 
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On May 06 2019 21:15 KadaverBB wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2019 15:38 zatic wrote:
Guys can you stop it with the spoiler tags please? The point of this thread is to discuss the episode after it aired. No need for spoiler tags. Haha I feel like a proud dad when everybody is using spoiler tags for everything. It's like the first 5 seasons where we banned hundreds of people finally worked! But yes, maybe a tiny bit pointless now
I think once the ep releases its okay to have people spoiler their comments (just for a little while)so people visiting the thread know when a new ep discussion is going on and to stop reading anymore.
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On May 06 2019 16:09 eviltomahawk wrote:I headcanon this out by assuming that parley privileges are way too sacred to break, and any attempt to do so would jeopardize internal and future support for her rule.
Its hard to make a peace treaty when you murdered the leader under a flag of truce. The other side is really not inclined to believe you.
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On May 06 2019 21:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2019 16:09 eviltomahawk wrote:On May 06 2019 14:48 CorsairHero wrote:+ Show Spoiler +cersei could have made this all very simple and killed dany right there but nope. I headcanon this out by assuming that parley privileges are way too sacred to break, and any attempt to do so would jeopardize internal and future support for her rule. Its hard to make a peace treaty when you murdered the leader under a flag of truce. The other side is really not inclined to believe you.
It should also be hard to hold power after murdering important lords and ladies in a sept, while destroying said sept in a huge explosion. Cersei isn't exactly written as if she would give a damn about these thoughts.
This episode had fine moments, part of the big celebration was sweet to experience, though a lot of it also felt really like fanservice. I think it is extremely underdeveloped why sansa and arya would be so anti dany after all they just went through, i understand that they want to have conflict there, but it's not organically developed imo.
Same for Varys suddenly being anti Dany as well, what exactly happened here? He saw her being somewhat unhappy at the feast i guess, oh no!
I am not sure where they want to go with jaime and i am also not sure why he would suddenly change plans after hearing the news about dany's fleet being destroyed.
This part was also extremely dumb btw, first off it happened last season already and in the behind the scenes D&D basically say "she forgot about euron's fleet", ok? She should have seen it being there from her aerial pov, she could have flanked the whole fleet after that as well with her dragon, etc.
Then the ending, first off it looked terrible, like some cheap set :/ Dany goes there with like 100 men, cersei could kill all of these without much problem. How am i supposed to feel the impact of missandei dying when she is some d tier character btw, if it was someone else, yeah maybe.
Now a big point of conflict is how dany wants to just attack kingslanding and take the throne, which would lead to a lot of civilians dying. That's how this always worked, i find it a really weak excuse for people to really resent her, but let's say we'll buy it. They literally have a super assassin who just killed the fucking night king, noone has the idea that maybe, just maybe arya might be valuable to conquer kingslanding?
Bran's arc still has no resolution, i wonder if we will get anything on that front.
This season so far really reminds me of lost, seasons of buildup and then an incredibly weak last season. I just cannot believe that this is the best they could come up with, they even had more time.
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Not sure why they brought missandei back to kings landing instead of just killing her straight away. I doubt Euron and Cersi even considered using her as a bargaining chip if anything i would have thought it could have been a trap. But Cersi just kills her and i assume danny and co just leave (unless the next ep opens with them under fire...doubt it)
Whats the point of this story wise, i understand the writters want to give a dramatic sense that Cersi is killing a close friend of danny (especially when shes short of them nowdays) but it could have also been done on the ship like the other two sandsnake sisters. Cersi only wanted one and the mother alive for personal revenge she has no specific revenge for missandei.
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I’ve come to terms with them abandoning a fulfilling/coherent plot...
But I would love it if they would stop ruining the interesting sets and turning everything in to a blank desert/tundra wasteland. The show has no sense of place anymore, and its made worse by the pacing. Everything is just empty and generic.
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Why didnt Missandei try to kill Cersei in her last moments?
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Not reading this thread before I can watch the episode later is the most difficult thing I've ever done.
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so far:
hated episode 1
enjoyed episode 2 great fanservice
hated episode 3 just complete incompetence on the defenders part, only to be saved last second by nightcrawler
episode 4 enjoyed it more than 3 but there were more blatant problems. the dragon getting sniped was upsetting, but it reminded me of how euron killed all the sand snakes the first time. he just teleported on top of them. presumably the sand snakes had some scout ships up ahead to detect non teleportation enemy fleets. of course with visibility so bad at night, it'd be hard for either fleet to find each other, but euron's teleportaiton game is too good.
this time around, it was complete day time, so presumably dany's fleet and scouts would've seen approaching enemy fleet. but yet again, euron's blink micro is too good. out of NOWHERE they blink in and snipe down the second dragon!!!! i'm not sure if i'm more upset about the dragon dying, or the shitty writing that enabled the dragon to die.
also was not a fan of how they made bron a bad guy, he was always the lovable anti hero, why would he trust cersei, total BS
also, cersei could've slaughtered the entire army right there. why was the dragon in the background when the ballistae could've just rekt it???? i know why she didn't kill tyrion - cause he's been USELESS the entire series ugh.
show has been predictable, save for missy's death. only open question - will jon snow be killed by dany after she becomes the mad queen, or will he survive. i would think he'd be killed (foreshadowing that northmen dont do well in the south), but now its not so clear. either he defeats dany, or he gets killed by dany, only for his nightcrawler cousin to come in and avenge assassinate dany.
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It makes perfect sense to be fair. Its strange to pick her up from the water (which we didn't see) but they know she is very close to Dany. I think the overall negotiation was just a show off anyways. Dany wanted to people to know she tried everything to avoid bloodshed, Cersei probably wanted to demonstrate power.
The only thing that doesn't fit Cersei is her not attacking Dany right then and there. Otherwise if you want to say its bait or power demonstration, both is very fitting for Cersei. Alternatively she could have send the head I guess.
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On May 06 2019 23:39 love2d wrote:
Not reading this thread before I can watch the episode later is the most difficult thing I've ever done.
Show became so shallow that spoilers no longer really matter imo
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United States41980 Posts
There’s no actual game of thrones going on now though. It’s more like unskippable cutscene of thrones or intro video of thrones. 110% exposition, things happen because that’s how they were written, not because they logically follow from previous events.
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I really really didn't like this episode and feel incredibly disappointed. I even feel fine with the first 3 episodes (mostly), but feel majorly let down now.
I did like Jaime & Brienne, Jaime is the only consistently well written character left I think and his arc this episode showed what the show was always good at.
Bran I thought they finally were able to make him stick a bit. Before the Night King was dead his humanity was basically worthless to us the viewer compared to finding out what his purpose was (nothing?). But now that it's over, what's left for Bran is actually interesting and they finally wrote some decent middle ground lines for him that aren't just total creep. Being lost his visions of the past is a sad fate and there's an interesting somberness to him achieving his destiny.
Almost everything else was pretty bad.
Rhaegal could have basically just been a Poochie "now I must go back to my home planet" gag. They put no effort into building into his death, or putting an actual emotional response in for it. It seems just so transparently done to kill off a big CG budget sink and cause a momentary shock. The output is supposed to be with Dany... but woo boy...
So Dany is it's own whole bag of problems. I actually like the intended arc here, she gets to Westeroes, and there's issues abound that start to chip away at her sanity and drive her to power lust. That's a potent and powerful arc fitting of Game of Thrones. We should have all this time to lament the fall from grace of our beloved character and come away with a realization that no one holding that sort of power is above the corrupting influence. That seems the intention and great, but the execution is horrible. The Dany that showed up in Westeroes is not the Dany that left Essoes. She hasn't shown us any of what we love above Dany since she arrived and it's been really problematic. We've only had some small scraps in how she's dealt with the army of the dead and her grief over Jorah Moment (which is one of the huge redeeming things here, the Jorah death was amazingly shot and the grief in the next episode worked well).
Even more problematic is her sanity seems to decline before the event that precipitates such a decline. Her Dragon's death should be the catalyst for rash decisions, but here we're left with them being post justifications for them. She *already* wanted to treat King's Landing Harshly, she already wanted to march immediately, she already was cold and somewhat cruel to those around her, and *then* her 2nd dragon died. It just doesn't work right. We've already lost sympathy for her and it's because she's written like a different character rather than her character undergoing a transition. It's a mess.
We almost got some good writing around Arya & the Hound so that was good, but it's clouded by the fact they're driving for a very unsatisfying end to Arya that will also have no emotional impact on anyone.
Then on top of that every other character (except for Jaime) is acting like a one dimension version of themselves. Tyrion is loyal man, Varys is traitor man, Sansa is cold hearted woman, Cersei is mean Mrs. bad woman, etc. It all feels so lifeless and so much like a typical fantasy escapism arc.
Bronn wasn't even Bronn either, the general idea was Bronn-esque if you ignore plot holes (lol @ Bronn willingly travel towards the army of the dead), but the general demeanor and lines of dialogue just felt... off. It's like someone was described the character of Bronn then wrote for it rather than someone who understands Bronn writing lines for him themselves. The whole scene just felt... off in execution. Then on top of that the outcome was really unsatisfying. They promise him a castle they can't deliver and he accepts and leaves. So maybe we see Bronn again for a rip Tyrion, maybe not, but it's just so... uninteresting.
Last major thing... is wtf is with army sizes? Does anyone actually believe only 1/2 the Dothraki died? Only 1/2 the Unsullied? The Castle was overrun for the majority of the episode, there were thousands of undead and only small scattered forces fighting back. In what world would Jon have so much trouble getting to the Godswood while 1000+ Unsullied (Dany initially had 8k and it's not believable she's down to under 2000 by the Long Night) are in the castle still living? You can't make tension and emotion through immense loss and sacrifice, then pull that loss and sacrifice back the very next episode. The magic expanding/contracting army sizes just robs the impact of the previous battles and engagements. It's amazing to have writing so bad that a later episode retroactively robs the good part of the previous episode.
Even worse so much of the tension and plot going forward is about the power of Cersei vs the power of Dany's army, but that power is meaningless. It's just whatever they tell us it is (and they tell us not show us) at the moment in a way that suits the plot for that moment. Gaining/losing power isn't a plot point anymore it just changes and the show tells us we should feel a certain way about it rather than coming to that conclusion on our own. When we had the war of the 5 armies we were shown the army's strength indirectly, we got to feel what we felt like the power dynamic was, that drove our stake in the fights and the war. Here we're just being told without emotion and are supposed to feel the way we're told. It doesn't work.
The best scene in the whole episode was Sansa putting the Direwolf pin on Theon. I could have done without anything else.
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You should rewatch the episode after you had some time to think about it and get a step away from all the disappointment. I was really disappointed with E3 and I still don't think it was great but in the end I accepted it. I don't think this episode terrible by any means. If at all I believe the dialogues we had and besides teleporting and some other (for me) minor issues was the best we've seen in a long time.
Really cannot agree with one-dimensional Tyrion nor Varys and neither can I agree with always feeling sympatic towards Dany. She was always self centered with a lot of self interested. Yes she did good but only for the purpose of achieving what she wanted. Going mad now is too quick but thats unfortunately due to them wrapping up in 6 episodes.
Overall this episode for me was one of the best we've seen over the last few seasons even. I don't want to argue in case you think that, I know preference and taste are different, but I might feel this is a lot of disappointment talking rather than a neutral stance on it. You do raise a few good points such as army size etc, but overall I cannot agree with this post.
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yes thats why i liked it the dialogue was actually good at long last
jamie is returning to cersei to help STOP her, to continue to redeem himself, for the guy who asked
dany saw (scouted) the fleet and attacked it, she didn't realise the ships had 1km range crossbolts that 1shot ships
the tension in the legion girl scene , for me, was wondering if cersei would kill tyrion then and there. i was a little surprised she didn't
i agree with it being retarded that dany suddenly doesn't care about burning the civilians. i thought that was already a big theme from last season. she said she wouldn't burn citizens and would find another way. (or someone convinced her). so it's exactly the same situation , only she don't give a fuck this time around suddenly
wolf man X arya GET
(i'm just kidding she's 14 you fucks)
anyone else think cersei was pretty hot this episode
i like the wicked ones
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dany saw (scouted) the fleet and attacked it, she didn't realise the ships had 1km range crossbolts that 1shot ships
She didn't see the fleet until Rhaegal was dead. She then tried to attack it despite the magic 1km range rapid fire ballista.
It makes you wonder, if these ballista are so damn useful for ship to ship combat where have then been the entire series? It's weird to pack such a massive technological breakthrough in such a short timeframe (never mind the convenience of building a whole fleet of ship in under a year).
Also their rate of fire is hilarious and comical in presentation. It feels like something that large firing from a wooden ship would tear the ship itself apart too.
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I'm strongly convinced that the writers decided that they hate this fucking show and the characters and instead of letting some of them die off heroically and gracefully in episode 3 most of them will instead embrace the suck first. Shout out to my man Theon though. Maybe the point is no one deserves to sit the throne or something.
Also:
Night King: apocalyptic magical undead threat
Cersei: real fucking magic with Euron the flying doucheman, gold haxx, instant construction boosts with no macro
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Big dick Euron kansei-dorifuting straight out of pirates of the Caribbean with rapid-fire anti-aircraft ballistas has been the highlight of the season for me.
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I just took it as they imported the super ballista tech when they got the golden suns. Or something. Advances in warfare are really weird in this time with no standardized communication. It took a really long time for sword fighters to adopt the tactic of standing sideways to present a smaller target. Like a crazy, unreasonably long time by modern standards.
Also, the dragons were always going to be dealt with by some magical anti air tech because GRRM wrote fighter jets into his grounded fantasy series. The show runners were just like "fuck this shit, they made magic super cross bows because we don't want to deal with these narrative 'I win' buttons any more."
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On May 07 2019 01:33 Plansix wrote:
I just took it as they imported the super ballista tech when they got the golden suns. Or something. Advances in warfare are really weird in this time with no standardized communication. It took a really long time for sword fighters to adopt the tactic of standing sideways to present a smaller target. Like a crazy, unreasonably long time by modern standards.
Also, the dragons were always going to be dealt with by some magical anti air tech because GRRM wrote fighter jets into his grounded fantasy series.
I'm happy to have the dragons die, but you gotta you know... do it well.
You could have killed Rhaegal in episode 3 and that would have been infinitely better than what we got in episode 4.
Or you could have had the ballista be at all realistic, put some weight into the build-up of the battle, then shock us with a dragon death and give Dany some actual time to have it impact her rather than moving through 3 more steps of the story.
There's no reason to have the ballista rapid fire, or fire from a million miles away, or suddenly be on every ship and every tower in kings landing rather than just tastefully placed in a reasonable manner.
Having Dany rush ahead and dive bomb the fleet then lose Rhaegal in a shocking manner would be way more impactful than what we got. Even better have a wounded Rhaegal land somewhere, Dany rushes off to be with her child, and that's why we have the battle go poorly rather than needing magical ballista that Dany can't approach.
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EPT
