On May 01 2019 21:58 The_Red_Viper wrote: Oh my god i hope there won't be any "cleganebowl" fanservice, i don't think it makes any sense for the characters either anymore. The mountain is a dumb zombie, how can there be any cathartic moment when the consciousness of the mountain is completely gone?
zombie mountain is book source and cleganebowl has been foreshadowed since ages...
I know that zombie mountain is a book source, i don't think that cleganebowl has been foreshadowed very much, i think it is a fantheory with almost no merit.
And even if it's a thing in the books as well, it's still garbage. While the mountain never was a real character, he still was a human being with consciousness. How would it be ever satisfying to kill his brother who cannot even understand the importance of the act anymore, it's as hollow as it can get.
On May 02 2019 00:02 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On May 01 2019 21:58 The_Red_Viper wrote: Oh my god i hope there won't be any "cleganebowl" fanservice, i don't think it makes any sense for the characters either anymore. The mountain is a dumb zombie, how can there be any cathartic moment when the consciousness of the mountain is completely gone?
Completely disagree. Cleganebowl is one of the few things remaining that still carries hype for me.
Gregor in both the show and books was already pretty much devoid of any humanity considering his many acts of cruelty, where he just serves as an arm of the Lannisters. Being an empty shell that takes orders isn't far off from who he was as a man. It further contrasts with Sandor as well who developed even more of a moral compass after abandoning the Lannisters.
Also, there's still plenty of satisfaction in having Sandor fight his brother. Gregor scarred him so deeply that he's still terribly afraid of fire. It's not so much the man he'd be slaying, but his past.
Ok you are saying it would be about slaying his past, i certainly agree with that, but that past manifests itself as his brother. That zombie mountain isn't his brother anymore, it's a shell. I don't see where any catharsis would be coming from at that point. It's like Oberyn Martell wanting to slay the mountain as well, there would have been no satisfaction there either. It is deeply important that the mountain actually is still able to recognize his opponent, he isn't though. (at least it doesn't look like it). To make it even more extreme, say the mountain was raised by white walkers and sandor would kill him there, how exactly would this slaying of the past manifest itself? It wouldn't. This is really similar. Cleganebowl is a fan theory which doesn't understand that there is no real payoff anymore, it's nonsense.
Does the Hound know what the Mountain has become? If I remember correctly he says him something when they bring the zombie to Cersei in Season 7, which makes it look like he is expecting to meet him again / face him before the end
What i meant with it wasn't foreshadowed very much is the books, this scene certainy sets it up for the show which is why i said i would definitely think it'll happen there. I just don't think there is anything special about it anymore when one party has no reaction to it whatsoever.
Does the mountain turn Zombie into the book/are we at this point?
It seems like a very pointless plot point in the series honestly.
Zombie mountain happened because otherwise cersei wouldnt have a reliable champion. Gotta make sure the bad guys stay in the lead
Ya but why make him a zombie, couldn't he just survive?
On May 01 2019 21:58 The_Red_Viper wrote: Oh my god i hope there won't be any "cleganebowl" fanservice, i don't think it makes any sense for the characters either anymore. The mountain is a dumb zombie, how can there be any cathartic moment when the consciousness of the mountain is completely gone?
zombie mountain is book source and cleganebowl has been foreshadowed since ages...
I know that zombie mountain is a book source, i don't think that cleganebowl has been foreshadowed very much, i think it is a fantheory with almost no merit.
And even if it's a thing in the books as well, it's still garbage. While the mountain never was a real character, he still was a human being with consciousness. How would it be ever satisfying to kill his brother who cannot even understand the importance of the act anymore, it's as hollow as it can get.
On May 02 2019 00:02 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On May 01 2019 21:58 The_Red_Viper wrote: Oh my god i hope there won't be any "cleganebowl" fanservice, i don't think it makes any sense for the characters either anymore. The mountain is a dumb zombie, how can there be any cathartic moment when the consciousness of the mountain is completely gone?
Completely disagree. Cleganebowl is one of the few things remaining that still carries hype for me.
Gregor in both the show and books was already pretty much devoid of any humanity considering his many acts of cruelty, where he just serves as an arm of the Lannisters. Being an empty shell that takes orders isn't far off from who he was as a man. It further contrasts with Sandor as well who developed even more of a moral compass after abandoning the Lannisters.
Also, there's still plenty of satisfaction in having Sandor fight his brother. Gregor scarred him so deeply that he's still terribly afraid of fire. It's not so much the man he'd be slaying, but his past.
Ok you are saying it would be about slaying his past, i certainly agree with that, but that past manifests itself as his brother. That zombie mountain isn't his brother anymore, it's a shell. I don't see where any catharsis would be coming from at that point. It's like Oberyn Martell wanting to slay the mountain as well, there would have been no satisfaction there either. It is deeply important that the mountain actually is still able to recognize his opponent, he isn't though. (at least it doesn't look like it). To make it even more extreme, say the mountain was raised by white walkers and sandor would kill him there, how exactly would this slaying of the past manifest itself? It wouldn't. This is really similar. Cleganebowl is a fan theory which doesn't understand that there is no real payoff anymore, it's nonsense.
Does the Hound know what the Mountain has become? If I remember correctly he says him something when they bring the zombie to Cersei in Season 7, which makes it look like he is expecting to meet him again / face him before the end
What i meant with it wasn't foreshadowed very much is the books, this scene certainy sets it up for the show which is why i said i would definitely think it'll happen there. I just don't think there is anything special about it anymore when one party has no reaction to it whatsoever.
Does the mountain turn Zombie into the book/are we at this point?
It seems like a very pointless plot point in the series honestly.
Zombie mountain happened because otherwise cersei wouldnt have a reliable champion. Gotta make sure the bad guys stay in the lead
Ya but why make him a zombie, couldn't he just survive?
When you stumble on the visualization of a character like "the mountain that rides" You don't just throw him out when he gets poisoned. He provides a very useful utility in the story as Cercies muscle that doesn't need his own story development or narrative in his own right. He simply is the foil to the hound and the big murder machine that the lanisters have in their back pocket. You'd have to do a lot more effort with structure and writing and a tool like "zombie mountain" solves a lot of issues post tywin cersi would face from a writing standpoint.
On May 01 2019 21:58 The_Red_Viper wrote: Oh my god i hope there won't be any "cleganebowl" fanservice, i don't think it makes any sense for the characters either anymore. The mountain is a dumb zombie, how can there be any cathartic moment when the consciousness of the mountain is completely gone?
zombie mountain is book source and cleganebowl has been foreshadowed since ages...
I know that zombie mountain is a book source, i don't think that cleganebowl has been foreshadowed very much, i think it is a fantheory with almost no merit.
And even if it's a thing in the books as well, it's still garbage. While the mountain never was a real character, he still was a human being with consciousness. How would it be ever satisfying to kill his brother who cannot even understand the importance of the act anymore, it's as hollow as it can get.
On May 02 2019 00:02 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On May 01 2019 21:58 The_Red_Viper wrote: Oh my god i hope there won't be any "cleganebowl" fanservice, i don't think it makes any sense for the characters either anymore. The mountain is a dumb zombie, how can there be any cathartic moment when the consciousness of the mountain is completely gone?
Completely disagree. Cleganebowl is one of the few things remaining that still carries hype for me.
Gregor in both the show and books was already pretty much devoid of any humanity considering his many acts of cruelty, where he just serves as an arm of the Lannisters. Being an empty shell that takes orders isn't far off from who he was as a man. It further contrasts with Sandor as well who developed even more of a moral compass after abandoning the Lannisters.
Also, there's still plenty of satisfaction in having Sandor fight his brother. Gregor scarred him so deeply that he's still terribly afraid of fire. It's not so much the man he'd be slaying, but his past.
Ok you are saying it would be about slaying his past, i certainly agree with that, but that past manifests itself as his brother. That zombie mountain isn't his brother anymore, it's a shell. I don't see where any catharsis would be coming from at that point. It's like Oberyn Martell wanting to slay the mountain as well, there would have been no satisfaction there either. It is deeply important that the mountain actually is still able to recognize his opponent, he isn't though. (at least it doesn't look like it). To make it even more extreme, say the mountain was raised by white walkers and sandor would kill him there, how exactly would this slaying of the past manifest itself? It wouldn't. This is really similar. Cleganebowl is a fan theory which doesn't understand that there is no real payoff anymore, it's nonsense.
Does the Hound know what the Mountain has become? If I remember correctly he says him something when they bring the zombie to Cersei in Season 7, which makes it look like he is expecting to meet him again / face him before the end
What i meant with it wasn't foreshadowed very much is the books, this scene certainy sets it up for the show which is why i said i would definitely think it'll happen there. I just don't think there is anything special about it anymore when one party has no reaction to it whatsoever.
Does the mountain turn Zombie into the book/are we at this point?
It seems like a very pointless plot point in the series honestly.
Zombie mountain happened because otherwise cersei wouldnt have a reliable champion. Gotta make sure the bad guys stay in the lead
Ya but why make him a zombie, couldn't he just survive?
Having a zombie is easier than a thinking person no matter how dumb or cruel he is.
On May 02 2019 05:47 Logo wrote: There's a somewhat notable potential impact of zombie mountain over man-mountain.
If he's only vulnerable to dragonglass, valayrian steel, and fire... well we know someone who doesn't own valayrian steel, doesn't like fire, and isn't very likely to keep carrying around a now nearly useless dragon glass weapon...
There has been no evidence to suggest he has any kind of invulnerability aside from not feeling pain?
Well there's the somewhat obvious parallel between him and the wights, and not feeling pain would imply being more difficult to kill in some capacity.
He had half his guts removed and still walks around with 120 kilos worth of armor.
Book spoilers on the Mountain and Littlefinger: + Show Spoiler +
The books haven't done anything too much with zombie Mountain yet. They haven't even officially announced that he's actually the Mountain. Officially, the Mountain died and his skull (cleaned) was sent to Dorne as proof of his death because of his crimes against them. Meanwhile a giant man is now on the kingsguard. If zombie Mountain is ever revealed to be zombie Mountain, it could result in war with Dorne.
Also, Qyburn is not just a puppet of Cersei in the books. He has his own ideas and may even be working for someone else. So Zombie Mountain may not be fully under Cersei's control. Overall, it's a much more interesting dynamic. Unfortunately, the show has made him a simple weapon for Cersei to wield because the show writers had no source material to work with. That's my big complaint with the show. Anytime they don't have source material, they turn the characters extremely one-dimensional, even characters who used to be multi-dimensional.
On Littlefinger from a few pages back. His goal was definitely to gain more and more power. He made gambles, some paid off, some did not. Overall, he keeps rising the ladder. I think it's his goal to replace feudalism with something more like a dictatorship and possibly even a "democracy" if it can keep him in power. More likely he'll try to band together with merchants, mercenaries, and lesser houses to gain power along with his attempt to take the Vale forces as his own.
In the books he's on the cusp of major power, but could still be sentenced to death at the request of a child.
On May 02 2019 16:16 RenSC2 wrote: Book spoilers on the Mountain and Littlefinger: + Show Spoiler +
The books haven't done anything too much with zombie Mountain yet. They haven't even officially announced that he's actually the Mountain. Officially, the Mountain died and his skull (cleaned) was sent to Dorne as proof of his death because of his crimes against them. Meanwhile a giant man is now on the kingsguard. If zombie Mountain is ever revealed to be zombie Mountain, it could result in war with Dorne.
Also, Qyburn is not just a puppet of Cersei in the books. He has his own ideas and may even be working for someone else. So Zombie Mountain may not be fully under Cersei's control. Overall, it's a much more interesting dynamic. Unfortunately, the show has made him a simple weapon for Cersei to wield because the show writers had no source material to work with. That's my big complaint with the show. Anytime they don't have source material, they turn the characters extremely one-dimensional, even characters who used to be multi-dimensional.
On Littlefinger from a few pages back. His goal was definitely to gain more and more power. He made gambles, some paid off, some did not. Overall, he keeps rising the ladder. I think it's his goal to replace feudalism with something more like a dictatorship and possibly even a "democracy" if it can keep him in power. More likely he'll try to band together with merchants, mercenaries, and lesser houses to gain power along with his attempt to take the Vale forces as his own.
In the books he's on the cusp of major power, but could still be sentenced to death at the request of a child.
also they mention that he never takes off his helmet, nor can anyone make out whats actually behind it, there was a possibility that its not really a head or rather a head missing the skull of the mountain.
But thats also not too clear because dorne ends up receiving his skull or so Cersi claims and although they mention that it would be quite unlikely for someone else to have a skull that big, cersi is also given a head of a dwarf with an unusually large skull after she puts out the hit on tyrion. The two book theories for me are -the skull of the dwarf was sent to dorne which also explains why all the flesh is cleaned off, the mountain retains his skull and its similar to the show where we can actually see a zombie mountain inside -the mountain's head was chopped off, skull cleaned and sent to dorne, qyburn has put the contents eyes/brain/etc into a different head which is grossly deformed and therefore never takes off his helmet
there is some crazy stuff that its Rob starks head on it, hence the Robert Strong name, but i think thats way too off base. edit: the books are amazing because theres so many loose ends and alot of information that may have to do with it or may not leading to alot of online theories which i love reading
The episode felt gut punching and atmospheric but that's the problem with GoT these days, every episode is just designed to deliver a feeling and not a plot. What the hell was that? Every scene of this was just done on it's own, the dothraki died in a initial charge for the sense of dread and the fucking cinematics. God it looked cool, but it was so stupid as a plot point. The retreat of the rest ofthe forces covered by the unsullied was gut wrenching, oh noes, they are all gonna die to save the rest of the fighters. Wait, why are the best forces protecting the retreat of the bad ones? Why are they even on an open field against an endless hord of enemies? Why are they not all on the walls slaughtering undead all day? Hey, we have a crazy castle, let's not use it. The undead were toggled on and off for cinematic value as well, murdering everything in their way as an unstoppable force in one instant and then suddenly becoming a mere nuisance in the next. What the fuck happened in the crypts? They switched from skeletons murdering every single person to hiding from complete massacre in their to finding all the survivors , stacking them in one place and no skellies around? And then the ridiculous last stand of Theon and his Marksmen, it was cool and we all were happy that Theon gut his redemption, but seriously, you are telling me that 20 archers hold back the undead better then a full line of heavy infantry or charging cavalry or people manning the fucking walls of a castle? Oh, and everything Arya. God i hat her since the last 2 seasons. They ruined her so hard.
On May 02 2019 16:16 RenSC2 wrote: Book spoilers on the Mountain and Littlefinger: + Show Spoiler +
The books haven't done anything too much with zombie Mountain yet. They haven't even officially announced that he's actually the Mountain. Officially, the Mountain died and his skull (cleaned) was sent to Dorne as proof of his death because of his crimes against them. Meanwhile a giant man is now on the kingsguard. If zombie Mountain is ever revealed to be zombie Mountain, it could result in war with Dorne.
Also, Qyburn is not just a puppet of Cersei in the books. He has his own ideas and may even be working for someone else. So Zombie Mountain may not be fully under Cersei's control. Overall, it's a much more interesting dynamic. Unfortunately, the show has made him a simple weapon for Cersei to wield because the show writers had no source material to work with. That's my big complaint with the show. Anytime they don't have source material, they turn the characters extremely one-dimensional, even characters who used to be multi-dimensional.
On Littlefinger from a few pages back. His goal was definitely to gain more and more power. He made gambles, some paid off, some did not. Overall, he keeps rising the ladder. I think it's his goal to replace feudalism with something more like a dictatorship and possibly even a "democracy" if it can keep him in power. More likely he'll try to band together with merchants, mercenaries, and lesser houses to gain power along with his attempt to take the Vale forces as his own.
In the books he's on the cusp of major power, but could still be sentenced to death at the request of a child.
there is some crazy stuff that its Rob starks head on it, hence the Robert Strong name, but i think thats way too off base. edit: the books are amazing because theres so many loose ends and alot of information that may have to do with it or may not leading to alot of online theories which i love reading
Jesus Christ that would be fucked up beyond belief.
On May 02 2019 16:16 RenSC2 wrote: Book spoilers on the Mountain and Littlefinger: + Show Spoiler +
The books haven't done anything too much with zombie Mountain yet. They haven't even officially announced that he's actually the Mountain. Officially, the Mountain died and his skull (cleaned) was sent to Dorne as proof of his death because of his crimes against them. Meanwhile a giant man is now on the kingsguard. If zombie Mountain is ever revealed to be zombie Mountain, it could result in war with Dorne.
Also, Qyburn is not just a puppet of Cersei in the books. He has his own ideas and may even be working for someone else. So Zombie Mountain may not be fully under Cersei's control. Overall, it's a much more interesting dynamic. Unfortunately, the show has made him a simple weapon for Cersei to wield because the show writers had no source material to work with. That's my big complaint with the show. Anytime they don't have source material, they turn the characters extremely one-dimensional, even characters who used to be multi-dimensional.
On Littlefinger from a few pages back. His goal was definitely to gain more and more power. He made gambles, some paid off, some did not. Overall, he keeps rising the ladder. I think it's his goal to replace feudalism with something more like a dictatorship and possibly even a "democracy" if it can keep him in power. More likely he'll try to band together with merchants, mercenaries, and lesser houses to gain power along with his attempt to take the Vale forces as his own.
In the books he's on the cusp of major power, but could still be sentenced to death at the request of a child.
also they mention that he never takes off his helmet, nor can anyone make out whats actually behind it, there was a possibility that its not really a head or rather a head missing the skull of the mountain.
But thats also not too clear because dorne ends up receiving his skull or so Cersi claims and although they mention that it would be quite unlikely for someone else to have a skull that big, cersi is also given a head of a dwarf with an unusually large skull after she puts out the hit on tyrion. The two book theories for me are -the skull of the dwarf was sent to dorne which also explains why all the flesh is cleaned off, the mountain retains his skull and its similar to the show where we can actually see a zombie mountain inside -the mountain's head was chopped off, skull cleaned and sent to dorne, qyburn has put the contents eyes/brain/etc into a different head which is grossly deformed and therefore never takes off his helmet
there is some crazy stuff that its Rob starks head on it, hence the Robert Strong name, but i think thats way too off base. edit: the books are amazing because theres so many loose ends and alot of information that may have to do with it or may not leading to alot of online theories which i love reading
the book series is not over, thats why it has so many loose ends... once the series is officially done, that "amazingness" of the books will be gone lol
Only memorable fight in GoT so far has been the Oberyn/Mountain one. Not because of the cool choreographs but because of the story behind it. If Cleganebowl happens I honestly wouldn’t care about it cause the show barely offered any substance (just season 1) between the Hounds and Mountains relationship.
Isn't Gregor a foot and a half taller than Sandor? In the show they're the same height so it's hard to tell, but I don't think Sandor would have a chance in the books.
I also find the redemption arc in the books more enjoyable than a Cleganebowl could ever be.
On May 02 2019 21:36 Emnjay808 wrote: Only memorable fight in GoT so far has been the Oberyn/Mountain one. Not because of the cool choreographs but because of the story behind it. If Cleganebowl happens I honestly wouldn’t care about it cause the show barely offered any substance (just season 1) between the Hounds and Mountains relationship.
idk, I thought Sandor vs Brienne/Beric was pretty damn good myself
On May 02 2019 21:36 Emnjay808 wrote: Only memorable fight in GoT so far has been the Oberyn/Mountain one. Not because of the cool choreographs but because of the story behind it. If Cleganebowl happens I honestly wouldn’t care about it cause the show barely offered any substance (just season 1) between the Hounds and Mountains relationship.
idk, I thought Sandor vs Brienne was pretty damn good myself
That fight was incredible. Down and dirty, nothing supernatural or 'honorable'. Just Brienne grunting her ass off while handing him his.
On May 02 2019 21:36 Emnjay808 wrote: Only memorable fight in GoT so far has been the Oberyn/Mountain one. Not because of the cool choreographs but because of the story behind it. If Cleganebowl happens I honestly wouldn’t care about it cause the show barely offered any substance (just season 1) between the Hounds and Mountains relationship.
The Jaime and Bronn vs Sand Snakes fight could be considered memorable, but for a bit different reasons
I always had a little soft spot for the mountain vs the hound from season 1, the blows seemed so heavy and real. Of course, the end of the fight was also cool
On May 03 2019 00:34 Aocowns wrote: I always had a little soft spot for the mountain vs the hound from season 1, the blows seemed so heavy and real. Of course, the end of the fight was also cool
EPT
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