EPT[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 1751
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
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VHbb
689 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10705 Posts
On May 01 2019 00:14 VHbb wrote: After the 2nd time watching last episode I am more convinced that we will know something about Bran controlling the crows in the midst of the battle during next episode.. it looks to strange otherwise They probably carried Aria and dropped her on the NK. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18407 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:08 Aocowns wrote: Any book readers know the extent of this warging stuff? Maybe it doesnt work on inherently magical creatures or something No such limitations have been introduced so far | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:00 VHbb wrote: I doubt Bran can warg into a dragon He can warg into humans. He can warg into 20 ravens at once. He can absolutely warg into a dragon. Hell he probably could have warged into the NK if he tried. In the books there is a wildling that could warg 6 animals at once and he was considered immensely powerful, but a human he couldnt warg into. A 10 year old bran can warg into Hodor with no training. We don't know the limits of his powers but we know they are beyond considerable. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:00 Aocowns wrote: the thing you said that started all this was "Littlefinger was a dude who thought he had a plan to gain power in the system, but only managed to create chaos and never obtained much. His main talent was avoiding being murdered better than most people who are into betrayal." that went to "well he did obtain much but he didnt have power".("So he was a wealthy merchant who manipulated a young lord to do what he wants from time to time? And hangs out with a young Lady to justify his existence at anyone's house") to "he obtained much given he had nothing and he did have some power but it wasnt real power like literal kings and people in line of succession, and his position in the power hierarchy was fragile". ("I never saw him as a master mind or anything of the sort. He was a viper, sure. But he was also high on his own supply, being his faith in how smart he was. He got a little power and assumed he could get more and more by doing the same thing. But there was never a doubt that the moment someone like Tywin ever thought Littlefinger was a problem, Littlefinger would be dead or dealt with. He is someone that could manipulate people who had access to the levers of power, but never had any power himself to resist those people if they turned against him.") at some point you literally said "I have doubts Littlefinger was ever going to gain more power beyond the small amount he obtained by manipulating children with gifts and marrying above his station. " Yes, im pretty sure im not confusing you with someone else, and yes, your statements needed a lot of fleshing out and a bit of moving goal posts before it was a defendable statement Everything I said is completely accurate. Littlefinger is a minor player in a struggle for the throne, with little power of his own and the ability to use power through the family he married into. Through the course of the series he manages to murder his wife and I guess gain some more power through that, but it would only last so long as he could keep his son in check(I can’t remember if Robin is Littlefinger’s son). He has money, but that has limited power in a system of monarchy. If we compare the amount of power Little Finger obtained during the course of the series, it is a little since his wife is gone. But that is it. And the Knights of the Vale are impressive, but no more impressive than any of the other Great Houses. And there was never a path for Littlefinger to gain more power than he already had, because that is how a monarchy is set up. The system is hierarchical in nature. There are ceilings to the amount of power people can obtain based on their birth, no matter how much Littlefinger claimed otherwise. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21685 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:08 Aocowns wrote: Thats the wonder of a magic system that is never explained.Any book readers know the extent of this warging stuff? Maybe it doesnt work on inherently magical creatures or something No one knows what his limitations actually are. | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
Just warg into Cersei or someone else and end the war, no? I don't buy it, I hope they don't have him warging into one of the remaining dragon to do something badass. I don't think Bran has to *do* something epic to justify his character, though I hope the crows in last episode have some meaning. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:23 VHbb wrote: Well why warging into a dragon if you can warg into anyone? Just warg into Cersei or someone else and end the war, no? I don't buy it, I hope they don't have him warging into one of the remaining dragon to do something badass. I don't think Bran has to *do* something epic to justify his character, though I hope the crows in last episode have some meaning. He doesn't have to do anything "epic", but he really should do something to justify following this character for 8 seasons. What has his role been? Telling us how the White Walkers came to be? Not really overall important (especially since it had no bearing on defeating them). Warning of the Night King? Jon already knew about him from Hardhome and other places. If the only point of his character was to tell everyone about the Phantom Menace trick and to be bait... I might honestly frickin scream. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21685 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:38 Requizen wrote: He didn't even need to be bait really. Arya could have sneak attack stabbed the Night king anywhere else.He doesn't have to do anything "epic", but he really should do something to justify following this character for 8 seasons. What has his role been? Telling us how the White Walkers came to be? Not really overall important (especially since it had no bearing on defeating them). Warning of the Night King? Jon already knew about him from Hardhome and other places. If the only point of his character was to tell everyone about the Phantom Menace trick and to be bait... I might honestly frickin scream. At this point the entire Brann storyline has basically been useless. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10705 Posts
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VHbb
689 Posts
I don't think he needs to control a dragon with his mind to have some purpose, we never saw the 3 eyed raven do anything substantial other than acting as living memory and somehow connection to the past history. Man you guys are angry at the show  I would suggest you to revisit it in a while, because it's clear that Bran is not "useless" and that Arya could not drop from anywhere on the NK, etc. .. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:41 Gorsameth wrote: He didn't even need to be bait really. Arya could have sneak attack stabbed the Night king anywhere else. At this point the entire Brann storyline has basically been useless. Well Arya could not backstab NK anywhere as NK would not come there in person if Bran was not bait. Unless you wanted the show to have an even more ridiculous scene where Arya jumps from Jon's dragon to NK and stabs him there.. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:44 VHbb wrote: He clearly has some sort of prescience, which I bet it's what lead him to give the dagger to Arya, etc. etc. I don't think he needs to control a dragon with his mind to have some purpose, we never saw the 3 eyed raven do anything substantial other than acting as living memory and somehow connection to the past history. Man you guys are angry at the show I would suggest you to revisit it in a while, because it's clear that Bran is not "useless" and that Arya could not drop from anywhere on the NK, etc. .. I think we have different meanings behind the word useless. Obviously he's done some stuff - giving the Knife, talking to Sam about Jon's lineage, etc... but you could remove him from the story wholesale and it really wouldn't change much. Arya could have gotten the Knife anywhere else and as Gorasmeth said, could have killed the NK at any time he was on the ground with the same move. Sam already knew most of the stuff about Jon's background. The Long Night was already coming for Winterfell. He's this character that's been there since the beginning, who we've spent countless hours with, who has had all this build up that his abilities and connection to the Greenseers and Children of the Forest and White Walkers, and his story at this point feels like it was just... filler. His character has no payoff. All the mystical stuff that they've put in the story didn't go anywhere, other than a 10 second staredown. That's extremely unsatisfying from a narrative standpoint. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On May 01 2019 02:04 -Archangel- wrote: Well Arya could not backstab NK anywhere as NK would not come there in person if Bran was not bait. Unless you wanted the show to have an even more ridiculous scene where Arya jumps from Jon's dragon to NK and stabs him there.. He would have come to Winterfell to kill everyone anyway. He went to Last Hearth and there was no Bran there. | ||
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:20 Plansix wrote: Everything I said is completely accurate. Littlefinger is a minor player in a struggle for the throne, with little power of his own and the ability to use power through the family he married into. Through the course of the series he manages to murder his wife and I guess gain some more power through that, but it would only last so long as he could keep his son in check(I can’t remember if Robin is Littlefinger’s son). He has money, but that has limited power in a system of monarchy. If we compare the amount of power Little Finger obtained during the course of the series, it is a little since his wife is gone. But that is it. And the Knights of the Vale are impressive, but no more impressive than any of the other Great Houses. And there was never a path for Littlefinger to gain more power than he already had, because that is how a monarchy is set up. The system is hierarchical in nature. There are ceilings to the amount of power people can obtain based on their birth, no matter how much Littlefinger claimed otherwise. Yeah but then limiting "real" power to birth and where that can take you isn't exactly a good way of limiting it, seeing as he had the capacity to do things, through his power, that the majority of high born could not. Sure, towards the end his power wasn't as strong and secure as it shouldve been, given the faith militant ruined his brothel business and the writers wanted to get rid of him by being outplayed by the most intelligent person arya knows. and of course power exists outside the actual monarchy, it sounds so naive to believe that the only real power is in bloodline of whatever dynasty is ruling. Sure thats a good way to get started on a power base, but with the majority of claimants dead, on shaky grounds in terms of personal relationships etc, is it really so hard to believe that a person like littlefinger can carve out for himself a portion of power that can be called real? He had already managed to marry into nobility, and he had a hand in both the north and in the riverlands, thats a better claim to power than many with an actual blood connection. Of course thats getting into too much speculation to be worth much at this point, but honestly, believing that the only power is inside the monarchy. Please | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 01 2019 01:44 VHbb wrote: He clearly has some sort of prescience, which I bet it's what lead him to give the dagger to Arya, etc. etc. I don't think he needs to control a dragon with his mind to have some purpose, we never saw the 3 eyed raven do anything substantial other than acting as living memory and somehow connection to the past history. Man you guys are angry at the show I would suggest you to revisit it in a while, because it's clear that Bran is not "useless" and that Arya could not drop from anywhere on the NK, etc. .. The anger though is it's basically like a triple whammy. Bran's value to the Night King is really poorly done/explained. As explained his value dead is only marginally more than anyone else, but the explanation is also too detailed to leave it mysterious. Bran turning into the 3 Eyed Raven is one of the most major plot lines in the entire show. It's one of the first major events that happens and it takes up a massive amount of screen time through all the seasons. Being a critical part of the upcoming events was always a driving narrative behind his journey and need to become the three eyed raven. If it's not essential for Bran to become the 3 eyed raven he could have just gone to Castle Black and skipped a massive perilous journey and we'd still be in the same spot as before. If there's no payout there except Jon is Aegon, that's really not very valuable. Especially if Jon isn't the Prince that was Promised or somehow important himself. If he breaks from Dany (to be King in the North) or marries her his lineage becomes mostly irrelevant anyways. So if that's the best we get his whole journey was a dud. I don't think Bran has to bust out some super power or go crazy, but they needed to have him do at least something to put a purpose behind his story arc. Right now if this was only a story about Bran the climax would be when Hodor died and we'd have this weird really long resolution for nothing. On May 01 2019 02:04 -Archangel- wrote: Well Arya could not backstab NK anywhere as NK would not come there in person if Bran was not bait. Unless you wanted the show to have an even more ridiculous scene where Arya jumps from Jon's dragon to NK and stabs him there.. This doesn't really work because there's also no reason for the NK to show up for Bran based on what the show tells us despite the show trying to tell us why the NK is after Bran. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21685 Posts
On May 01 2019 02:04 -Archangel- wrote: Not unreasonable he would have walked in just like now when the battle was won.Well Arya could not backstab NK anywhere as NK would not come there in person if Bran was not bait. Unless you wanted the show to have an even more ridiculous scene where Arya jumps from Jon's dragon to NK and stabs him there.. And to be fair. Arya divebombing off of a dragon would have made about as much sense as her teleporting from off screen now and certainly looked cooler. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 01 2019 02:11 Aocowns wrote: Yeah but then limiting "real" power to birth and where that can take you isn't exactly a good way of limiting it, seeing as he had the capacity to do things, through his power, that the majority of high born could not. Sure, towards the end his power wasn't as strong and secure as it shouldve been, given the faith militant ruined his brothel business and the writers wanted to get rid of him by being outplayed by the most intelligent person arya knows. and of course power exists outside the actual monarchy, it sounds so naive to believe that the only real power is in bloodline of whatever dynasty is ruling. Sure thats a good way to get started on a power base, but with the majority of claimants dead, on shaky grounds in terms of personal relationships etc, is it really so hard to believe that a person like littlefinger can carve out for himself a portion of power that can be called real? He had already managed to marry into nobility, and he had a hand in both the north and in the riverlands, thats a better claim to power than many with an actual blood connection. Of course thats getting into too much speculation to be worth much at this point, but honestly, believing that the only power is inside the monarchy. Please Yes. That is what monarchy is. It is a hard limitation on how high a person can climb on the ladder. Littlefinger was able to climb that ladder and gain the limited real power allowed in that system. But there were always hard limits that he refused to accept or maybe just didn't believe existed due to his climb to where he was. | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
On May 01 2019 02:05 Requizen wrote: I think we have different meanings behind the word useless. Obviously he's done some stuff - giving the Knife, talking to Sam about Jon's lineage, etc... but you could remove him from the story wholesale and it really wouldn't change much. Arya could have gotten the Knife anywhere else and as Gorasmeth said, could have killed the NK at any time he was on the ground with the same move. Sam already knew most of the stuff about Jon's background. The Long Night was already coming for Winterfell. He's this character that's been there since the beginning, who we've spent countless hours with, who has had all this build up that his abilities and connection to the Greenseers and Children of the Forest and White Walkers, and his story at this point feels like it was just... filler. His character has no payoff. All the mystical stuff that they've put in the story didn't go anywhere, other than a 10 second staredown. That's extremely unsatisfying from a narrative standpoint. This is what I don't understand: you can have a character who develops through the show and has no ultimate "payoff", it's just there because it's part of the story as a whole. Yes you could rewrite GoT so that Bran is out of it, and his impact is replaced by something else. Does this make the character useless? I don't think so, his character is still part of the story, even if he didn't give a substantial active contribution to the final battle. You can argue Jon Snow didn't to anything substantial in the last episode, since he was not the one to save Bran: he just went around trying to intercept the NK and failing. Is he useless? Maybe Bran does not incarnate the final meaning of this show, and perhaps the previous parts of the story mislead us to think he had a bigger role (and btw we don't know yet how he will act in the next 3 episodes), but so far it seems that he was the successor to the 3 eyed raven, and as such he became a memory of human history and lore. He somehow is part of the plan that lead to the killing of the NK, and remains for now alive as the 3 eyed raven. The story continues, Bran does not have to die as a hero or do something crazy in the next 3 episodes to give meaning to his character arc edit: after reading a couple more posts I think we have different view of how a story is told, which maybe is the reason we see the plot lines differently I don't think character arcs have to have "payouts", or a final resolution that impacts the rest of the story The arc of Bran's character could end with him becoming the 3 eyed raven, and leading to the assassination of the Night King, and that would be it -- it's not useless, because it contributes to telling the story that's portrayed in the show The conclusion is that Bran is now the new 3 eyed raven, and gathers the memory of human history (etc.), that's the "payout" if you want to call it like that Even if this has no impact on Jon's next move, or other storylines, I would not say that his arc or his character are useless, they are part of the story and lead to what happened in this last episode | ||
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