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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
United States43536 Posts
On April 23 2019 02:33 BlackCompany wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2019 02:15 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2019 02:02 Sermokala wrote:
I think its also that people are having PTSD from lost's ending. They are looking at the fact that the season is already 1/3rd over and there is a ton for the show to do with the remaining time it has. That clock on the wall means that the rest of the season becomes more predictable then planed. One of the largest flavors of GOT has been the unpredictability of it.
The night king just has to be defeated in this next episode or the one after that. + Show Spoiler [potential leaks] +There's a theory that the reason we didn't see the NK at Winterfell on his dragon is because he's making a play straight for the Iron Throne and has gone south. That they're going to clear up the Cersei storyline first and then have the NK vs The Prince Who Was Promised endgame, rather than having the apocalyptic final battle up north, and then having dragons vs Cersei as some kind of Scouring of the Shire (in LotR they have the apocalyptic final battle at the Black Gates, Sauron is defeated, and then it turns out that Saruman is doing his own thing in the Shire and they have to go take care of that but it's pretty easy because they just defeated fucking Sauron and the stakes really just come down to provincial management). + Show Spoiler +honestly thats the only way i can see this ending in a not anticlimactic way. If the nightking is at winterfell and wins they are really out of time to wrap up the living vs dead story AND cersei story. If they beat the undead at winterfell... honesty thats even worse. All this build up for a single battle that they just win?
If the nightking goes for cersei first they can have the living loose or win at winterfell and still have options where the story goes + they dont need to spend time with jon/dany vs cersei
+ Show Spoiler +Also the NK can raise Cersei's army so we'll get the benefit of an actual epic final battle and it'll prove Jon's "we either stand together or fall separately" thing. Also zombie Cersei would be pretty epic.
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zombie cersei would make Bronn's storyline totally obsolete though?
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Canada8989 Posts
On April 23 2019 03:12 sharkie wrote:
zombie cersei would make Bronn's storyline totally obsolete though?
Oh no, not Bron storyline, I was so invested in it...
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On April 23 2019 03:12 sharkie wrote:
zombie cersei would make Bronn's storyline totally obsolete though?
Bronn's storyline is already in a super weird place. They put that scene with Cersei into episode 1 for a reason. He's got to have a confrontation with Jaime or Tyrion about it, so at least one of them has plot armor. I was half expecting him to shoot Tyrion while he was talking with Jaime on the battlements.
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Unless the show kicks it’s pacing tenfold from here on out, we’re gonna be left with A LOT of unfinished, poorly tied-off character storylines. I think that’s why I’m being critical this season.
I’m still optimistic they’ll pull it off but these first two eps have been very slow and of very little substance than what I’ve expected for the season finale.
Edit:
I just caught up with the discussion that NK+ Frostwyrm goes down south. I like that. Pls do that, show.
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Canada8989 Posts
On April 23 2019 04:21 Emnjay808 wrote:
Unless the show kicks it’s pacing tenfold from here on out, we’re gonna be left with A LOT of unfinished, poorly tied-off character storylines. I think that’s why I’m being critical this season.
I’m still optimistic they’ll pull it off but these first two eps have been very slow and of very little substance than what I’ve expected for the season finale.
Edit:
I just caught up with the discussion that NK+ Frostwyrm goes down south. I like that. Pls do that, show.
I think the better way to do it would be to not close caracter storyline if they don't need to, sadly it's not looking this way. I don't need a Thormond, Gendry, Quibern, Bron, Liana, that guy from the Vale ect... ending story arc. They can just do whatever, it dosen't matter in the end, I would have love for Bron to just go spend his cash where ever and never hear from him again, Gendry can go back to his forge, Liana to her island, Sam to his mom castle or the citadel, Missande can be the Queen translator/speeker... No need for everyone to have a meaningfull life after this. Even not saying/showing what happen would be alright for side caracters.
Pretty sure those story line end will just come in the form of mass murder tho.
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On April 23 2019 04:21 Emnjay808 wrote:
Unless the show kicks it’s pacing tenfold from here on out, we’re gonna be left with A LOT of unfinished, poorly tied-off character storylines. I think that’s why I’m being critical this season.
I’m still optimistic they’ll pull it off but these first two eps have been very slow and of very little substance than what I’ve expected for the season finale.
Edit:
I just caught up with the discussion that NK+ Frostwyrm goes down south. I like that. Pls do that, show.
But that makes no sense...why would he go there? Does he even know Cersei exists?
If he is going down there to get new undead fodder, how does he even know Cersei just got a Golden company?
That's a dumb plot line and I hope they don't do it.
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On April 23 2019 05:20 Odoakar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2019 04:21 Emnjay808 wrote:
Unless the show kicks it’s pacing tenfold from here on out, we’re gonna be left with A LOT of unfinished, poorly tied-off character storylines. I think that’s why I’m being critical this season.
I’m still optimistic they’ll pull it off but these first two eps have been very slow and of very little substance than what I’ve expected for the season finale.
Edit:
I just caught up with the discussion that NK+ Frostwyrm goes down south. I like that. Pls do that, show. But that makes no sense...why would he go there? Does he even know Cersei exists? If he is going down there to get new undead fodder, how does he even know Cersei just got a Golden company? That's a dumb plot line and I hope they don't do it.
I think it won’t happen. But I’m sure that the Night King knows where kingslanding is and that it is the center of the three kingdoms.
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I mean, the only reason the Night King would attack Winterfell personally is because Bran told us the Night King wants to. If his motives are just "kill as many as possible" it makes perfect sense to ignore Winterfell until he's killed everyone in Westeros that isn't armed with weapons that can kill him and his lieutenants (though I'm not sure he knows about the dragonglass).
That said he's better as an inscrutable force of nature marching south than someone so dedicated to killing Bran he'd risk his personal safety or a sneaky subverter of expectations.
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On April 23 2019 02:33 BlackCompany wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2019 02:15 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2019 02:02 Sermokala wrote:
I think its also that people are having PTSD from lost's ending. They are looking at the fact that the season is already 1/3rd over and there is a ton for the show to do with the remaining time it has. That clock on the wall means that the rest of the season becomes more predictable then planed. One of the largest flavors of GOT has been the unpredictability of it.
The night king just has to be defeated in this next episode or the one after that. + Show Spoiler [potential leaks] +There's a theory that the reason we didn't see the NK at Winterfell on his dragon is because he's making a play straight for the Iron Throne and has gone south. That they're going to clear up the Cersei storyline first and then have the NK vs The Prince Who Was Promised endgame, rather than having the apocalyptic final battle up north, and then having dragons vs Cersei as some kind of Scouring of the Shire (in LotR they have the apocalyptic final battle at the Black Gates, Sauron is defeated, and then it turns out that Saruman is doing his own thing in the Shire and they have to go take care of that but it's pretty easy because they just defeated fucking Sauron and the stakes really just come down to provincial management). + Show Spoiler +honestly thats the only way i can see this ending in a not anticlimactic way. If the nightking is at winterfell and wins they are really out of time to wrap up the living vs dead story AND cersei story. If they beat the undead at winterfell... honesty thats even worse. All this build up for a single battle that they just win?
If the nightking goes for cersei first they can have the living loose or win at winterfell and still have options where the story goes + they dont need to spend time with jon/dany vs cersei
+ Show Spoiler +I think it is pretty clear that the NK will be at Winterfell considering the whole let's use Bran as bait bit. Considering almost every major character is there for the final battle I am not surprised when it comes to the build-up for the big fight. As for the acting. As much as some of you want to complain about 'blank' faces. I don't know if some of you are just missing subtle moves. I mean this isn't theater. I get people want the story to move along when there is only six episodes in the season. Here's to all the people who will die next episode.
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On April 23 2019 05:56 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I mean, the only reason the Night King would attack Winterfell personally is because Bran told us the Night King wants to. If his motives are just "kill as many as possible" it makes perfect sense to ignore Winterfell until he's killed everyone in Westeros that isn't armed with weapons that can kill him and his lieutenants (though I'm not sure he knows about the dragonglass).
That said he's better as an inscrutable force of nature marching south than someone so dedicated to killing Bran he'd risk his personal safety or a sneaky subverter of expectations.
They need to describe some amount of motivation and goals to the Night King, if only because they need to have some plan for the upcoming battle and for the audience to know when the plan goes wrong.
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Canada8989 Posts
On April 23 2019 06:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2019 05:56 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I mean, the only reason the Night King would attack Winterfell personally is because Bran told us the Night King wants to. If his motives are just "kill as many as possible" it makes perfect sense to ignore Winterfell until he's killed everyone in Westeros that isn't armed with weapons that can kill him and his lieutenants (though I'm not sure he knows about the dragonglass).
That said he's better as an inscrutable force of nature marching south than someone so dedicated to killing Bran he'd risk his personal safety or a sneaky subverter of expectations. They need to describe some amount of motivation and goals to the Night King, if only because they need to have some plan for the upcoming battle and for the audience to know when the plan goes wrong.
Plus they probably want to setup the prequel series that is suppose to cover the first long night and the creation of the night king.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
Edit - oops. More general thoughts but interspersed too many spoilers all over the post so just tagging it all.
+ Show Spoiler +What is fucking up with this pacing it’s driving me insane, or choice of focus or whatever. It’s all little things largely but in aggregate they’re all sort of adding up. Sansa and Danny and Jon and Danny having these interrupted exchanges that at left hanging. I did think Brienne/Jaime stuff was pretty decent though, largely followed their character dynamic.
Basically everything feels way too fanservice centric to me, I mean I expect a bit at this stage but it feels like the writers are just going through a checklist.
Then the one scene I really think needed to have a bunch of tension was the battle plan scene which didn’t? So we have a bit of bickering over old sins, some about jostling for position in a world after this battle for humanity, but nothing really when it comes to planning for that battle? :S There’s probably more hardcore arguments over build choices in SC pro houses than there were for the plan for battling the white walkers.
I guess we’ll see where they go though. It would be pretty ballsy of GRMM to massively deviate from the show, if he ever puts anything else out there. He probably should.
Why oh why did they make Cersei turn around on aiding vs the White Walkers so quickly, why not draw it out a bit?
We could have shaved off tons of characters, made Cersei even more of a pantomime villain etc if there was some battle and she didn’t show up as agreed and those who were left there were massacre. Or something in that kind of domain, if you get me.
Instead it’s Cersei lying and reneging on it which surprised absolutely no one, and you’ve got this secondary, much less scary threat lurking in the background, necessitating Euron being there more and just adding to the lack of focus.
As an aside could we have a bit of show don’t tell with the White Walkers while we’re at it? Doesn’t have to be some CGI extravaganza, I’d prefer if it wasn’t, maybe a few shots of the wake of their advance, maybe some traumatised refugees or something? Maybe they corrupt the ground around them as they go, or whatever really.
I mean i know this world pretty well, so god knows what average Joe viewer feels, it’s hard to get a sense of time and place of late, it’s definitely got worse there. Might be a bit cheesy but more ‘trail of destruction’ stuff might ease that a little.
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Either Jon is immune to undead dragon's fire or he dies, corpse gets burnt by dragon fire and some magic will happen.
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It seems unlikely that Jon would be immune to Fire unless the show is willing to have a pretty big retcon, or it's some magic from his rebirth. He burns himself pretty badly defending the Night Watch's Commander in the first season of the show (and corresponding scene in the book).
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The undead dragon is an ice dragon though. The ending will revolve around Jon having both ice and fire bloodline I guess.
I wonder if Jon was actually resurrected as an undead, but his dragon bloodline counteracted the white walker effects and prevented him from going full undead.
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Going back to S7:
What was the logic of the white walkers making the march south if they had no means of getting pass the magical barrier?
Afaik: Walkers start south > Jon & Co. gets stranded > Dany gives dragon > RIP wall.
This sequence is definitely off.
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On April 23 2019 15:14 Emnjay808 wrote:
Going back to S7:
What was the logic of the white walkers making the march south if they had no means of getting pass the magical barrier?
Afaik: Walkers start south > Jon & Co. gets stranded > Dany gives dragon > RIP wall.
This sequence is definitely off.
Is it ever stated in the show that there is a magical barrier in the Wall? I honestly don't remember.
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On April 23 2019 16:36 Salteador Neo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2019 15:14 Emnjay808 wrote:
Going back to S7:
What was the logic of the white walkers making the march south if they had no means of getting pass the magical barrier?
Afaik: Walkers start south > Jon & Co. gets stranded > Dany gives dragon > RIP wall.
This sequence is definitely off. Is it ever stated in the show that there is a magical barrier in the Wall? I honestly don't remember.
Its definitely in the books that there is a magical barrier around the wall. But like all other things Martin just put it in there cause it sounds fancy and cool
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Benjen was “undead” when he escorted Jon back to the wall. Then was like “I can’t go any further than this cause magic barrier wall etc etc”.
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