On April 23 2019 00:22 sharkie wrote: Whats wrong with you all lol? Game of thrones has always been exactly that and nothing more. I start to believe some of you have made GoT some perfect great tv show that is full of things that it isnt.. Seriously, sheesh.
You are just so, so wrong on this. GoT always had great dialogue scenes which really developed characters and naturally progressed the plot. Ofc it wasn't perfect before either, but the highs were so much higher and the lows not as low. We just had a ton of reunions which would have been the perfect opportunity for another legendary scene between characters, i don't think any of them sticked the landing on that.
Watch any of the current scenes and compare it to this:
On April 22 2019 23:39 solidbebe wrote: The writing is so flat and the direction is so wooden. 90% of characters in scenes now are just blank serious face. With the exceptions being brienne's smile after being knighted and jamie who is practically the only only left who feels like an actual human being. The rest of the cast are just line delivery machines. Not really blaming the actors for it though. Any time some actual tension shows up the scene ends: sansa confronting dany about the north had the potential to become a very interesting scene which finally brings their silent conflict above the table. Of course it ends right as sansa confronts dany. Too difficult to write I guess. Second time with dany and jon, the actual GRAND REVEAL of jons heritage thats been hanging in the air for several seasons. Yet nothing happens. As soon as dany mentions him being and line for the throne before her and they could actually have some meaningful dialogue, the horn blows. Saved by the be- uuuh whitewalkers.
Again nothing of consequence happens. We see a bunch more shot/reverse-shot 1on1 meetups all of which should have been handled in the previous episode. The meeting in the war room could have been several characters discussing about what their strategy should be, surely all these characters from incredibly different walks of life would disagree at least a little on how they should handle the likely final battle of their lives? Nope, bran comes up with some plan and thats what theyre going to do. No conflict, no discussion, nothing. They didnt even mention the ice dragon... why does no one seem to be worried about that?
Also was it just me or did this episode have really strange sound mixing? In the span of a few lines in the same scene characters went from sounding normal to sounding like theyre in a large hall with echo, to sounding like theyre right new to a microphone. Bizarre honestly.
Another thing: this episode was really blatantly using the setup for helms deep in Lotr as inspiration. Some might call it an homage, but it felt more like creative bankruptcy. Like they had no idea how to do a setup for such a hopeless battle so they just had to copy an actually good film. The shrill contrast with the quality of lotr made this episode fall flat on its face even more. Tolkien and george lucas knew better than to include quipy one-liners and a 'funny' wildling who tells some story about sucking on a giants tit before spilling milk all over himself in the scenes leading up to helms deep. The tone is so all over the place I have a hard time feeling any tension for the fight with the white walkers. Dont even get me started on arya the 'badass', all her scenes are a continuous stream of cringe.
Yes im upset
Did you delete the character of Gimli and his contest of orc murder with long fancy pants of the perfect hair? There are jokes in both the book and the movie. And there are a lot of jokes in all of George Lucas’s “hopeless battles” too.
I dont have an issue with jokes. Some of the gimli/legolas jokes work well to lighten the mood here and there. Its when characters seem more concerned with being cool or funny than their imminent death that it becomes grating. Yes gimli and legolas fall under that too with their orc counting. The real difference is that lotr had mountains of substance beyond the few dumb jokes, GoT doesnt at this point.
Its become so evident that the show is being written as something for an audience to respond to, instead of a good story in of itself. Take the ending of the previous season: they build up arya and sansa getting into a conflict, before they turn around for the big audience surprise and murder little finger. We did not get to see any dialogue to indicate that arya/sansa were conspiring against little finger. It was only written like that to be a gotcha moment for the audience. Thats not good storytelling. But its basically what every episode boils down to now.
loved episode 2 much more! the episode 1 reunions felt flat. episode 2 much better. this is what episode 1 should have been. i prefer moar dialogue and less action.
i hope that the twist (now that writers are out of GRRM material) is that most everyone will survive. but i predict jaime dies protecting brienne or vice versa. probably brienne dies helping jaime, which frees up jaime to kill cersei. hound better live so he can kill the mountain. starks have been shit on enough i think they all gonna live.
dany is now the new villain, jon might die fighting her
also what with all this criticism? yeah the show plot sucked since they ran out of material. BUT WHOSE FAULT IS THAT? GRRM WROTE A SILMARILLION BOOK THAT NOBODY ASKED FOR. WE WANTED WINDS OF WINTER AND WAITED A LONG ASS TIME. NOTHING HAPPENED IN DANCING DRAGONS, NOTHING HAPPENED IN CROW FEASTERS EITHER, HE COULD HAVE WRAPPED IT ALL UP BY NOW HAD HE CUT OUT HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF MATERIAL
Another trend I have noticed about this thread is that people are always negative when it comes to table setting episodes. This episode is a bottle episode where the focus is all about the day/days before the big battle. And its likely the last time we are going to see a bunch of these characters.
Edit: I'm with fishjie on this one. GRRM did this to all of us. He stopped the series right when he would have had to do the hard work to get everyone to the point we are at right now. I'm sure the plot notes were: And then: "they declare a truce to fight the Night King at Winterfell, but then Cersi betrays them" without any clear path from John it Dead to Battle of the Long Night.
On April 23 2019 00:44 fishjie wrote: i hope that the twist (now that writers are out of GRRM material) is that most everyone will survive.
How is that a twist? The white walkers have barely been a threat of substance till this point. Its all been tell dont show. Consider how even the redhaired wildling and the nights watch dudes -- insignificant side characters they are -- made it safely away from the wall as it was being blown up by an ice dragon. Even without the context of the show, an easy defeat of the white walkers is a very predictable outcome. Defeating the big bad and a good merry time was had by all, no one ever fought again and everyone lived happily ever after. What a weak ending that would be... they need to kill of at least more than half of the major characters to have any kind of impact. The white walker threat has been built up since season 1.
On April 23 2019 00:45 Plansix wrote: Another trend I have noticed about this thread is that people are always negative when it comes to table setting episodes. This episode is a bottle episode where the focus is all about the day/days before the big battle. And its likely the last time we are going to see a bunch of these characters.
There were 120 minutes in which nobody does anything. Nobody moves. Nobody schemes. Nobody advances. There’s no payoff, just setting the stage. That’s shorter than most movies.
I doubt they are going to win the battle or that Winterfell will hold. The castle is going to fell, many of the characters will escape as it does. Other will die. And my bet with the episode ends with Bran having a chat with the Nightking and dying.
On April 23 2019 00:45 Plansix wrote: Another trend I have noticed about this thread is that people are always negative when it comes to table setting episodes. This episode is a bottle episode where the focus is all about the day/days before the big battle. And its likely the last time we are going to see a bunch of these characters.
There were 120 minutes in which nobody does anything. Nobody moves. Nobody schemes. Nobody advances. There’s no payoff, just setting the stage. That’s shorter than most movies.
I watched characters advocate for lady bad ass to be knighted because "Fuck the rules", others find out they were banging their aunt, which is why he could ride a dragon, people dropping some lines about their favorite part of Joffrey's wedding, we got a quick trial of Jamie and were shown that keeping your word and being loyal has its uses. I saw plenty of stuff, but that is because I'm here for the characters first, the political backstabbing second.
And this is where the show was always going to go. The pending doom of the Long Night makes the petty infighting of who gets to be on the throne seem pointless. It lets characters have moments where they discuss why women make men stupid and the challenges of being a lady ruler. And even though that doesn't lead to a political alliance, it does build up trust between the characters. And then, after that, they are all going to murdered in the crypt because dead people are down there.
Also, I don't know how many deal people are going to be in the crypt. A lot of those bodies are real old. But a couple would be more than enough to to murder a whole lot of people. We should really just start a death pool.
On April 23 2019 00:45 Plansix wrote: Another trend I have noticed about this thread is that people are always negative when it comes to table setting episodes. This episode is a bottle episode where the focus is all about the day/days before the big battle. And its likely the last time we are going to see a bunch of these characters.
A bottle episode right after the episode of last week which was... a table setting episode. Consider for a minute how we've had nearly 2 hours of screen time so far and almost nothing of consequence has happened: the crowd has gathered at winterfell, jamie has switched sides, dany knows about jons heritage. That's all the actual plot points I can come up with. In a runtime equal to what many movies tell their whole story in.
On April 23 2019 00:44 fishjie wrote: i hope that the twist (now that writers are out of GRRM material) is that most everyone will survive.
How is that a twist? The white walkers have barely been a threat of substance till this point. Its all been tell dont show. Consider how even the redhaired wildling and the nights watch dudes -- insignificant side characters they are -- made it safely away from the wall as it was being blown up by an ice dragon. Even without the context of the show, an easy defeat of the white walkers is a very predictable outcome. Defeating the big bad and a good merry time was had by all, no one ever fought again and everyone lived happily ever after. What a weak ending that would be... they need to kill of at least more than half of the major characters to have any kind of impact. The white walker threat has been built up since season 1.
It is a twist because the book was always two fantasies interwoven into one. One was the gritty realistic politicking and backstabbing at kings landing. In this fantasy, there is no obvious "good guy" aside from the starks, and they get slaughtered, and these aren't heroic deaths. But in mereen and at the wall it was always more fantasy, with two "chosen one" characters, one with dragons, the other who comes back to life fighting ice zombies. It was clear that both had plot armor. The viewer has been conditioned to expect the "good guys" to get slaughtered, and starting last season, that hasn't really happened. i don't really recall any memorable deaths last season. FFS, jaime was gonna get roasted by a dragon until bronn saves him last minute. FFS, jon does a piss poor planning job of doing an expedition beyond the wall where they get surrounded and attacked by a horde of zombies and magically the dragon teleports in to save them all.
so even though in youtube comments everyones expecting a slaughter, i predict that there won't be a slaughter. the only people who die will be the ones whose plot armor runs out, and they will have a "heroic" death, in contrast to oberyn who died to a wake up super command grab from zangief. i'm just not sure whose time has run out.
On April 23 2019 00:45 Plansix wrote: Another trend I have noticed about this thread is that people are always negative when it comes to table setting episodes. This episode is a bottle episode where the focus is all about the day/days before the big battle. And its likely the last time we are going to see a bunch of these characters.
A bottle episode right after the episode of last week which was... a table setting episode. Consider for a minute how we've had nearly 2 hours of screen time so far and almost nothing of consequence has happened: the crowd has gathered at winterfell, jamie has switched sides, dany knows about jons heritage. That's all the actual plot points I can come up with. In a runtime equal to what many movies tell their whole story in.
And the build up to and knighting of Brienne of Tarth to a room of cheering men who all recognize her merit didn't make the list, which means you and I might watch the show for different reasons. Which is cool, but it means I might enjoy these episodes more than you do.
On April 23 2019 00:44 fishjie wrote: i hope that the twist (now that writers are out of GRRM material) is that most everyone will survive.
How is that a twist? The white walkers have barely been a threat of substance till this point. Its all been tell dont show. Consider how even the redhaired wildling and the nights watch dudes -- insignificant side characters they are -- made it safely away from the wall as it was being blown up by an ice dragon. Even without the context of the show, an easy defeat of the white walkers is a very predictable outcome. Defeating the big bad and a good merry time was had by all, no one ever fought again and everyone lived happily ever after. What a weak ending that would be... they need to kill of at least more than half of the major characters to have any kind of impact. The white walker threat has been built up since season 1.
It is a twist because the book was always two fantasies interwoven into one. One was the gritty realistic politicking and backstabbing at kings landing. In this fantasy, there is no obvious "good guy" aside from the starks, and they get slaughtered, and these aren't heroic deaths. But in mereen and at the wall it was always more fantasy, with two "chosen one" characters, one with dragons, the other who comes back to life fighting ice zombies. It was clear that both had plot armor. The viewer has been conditioned to expect the "good guys" to get slaughtered, and starting last season, that hasn't really happened. i don't really recall any memorable deaths last season. FFS, jaime was gonna get roasted by a dragon until bronn saves him last minute. FFS, jon does a piss poor planning job of doing an expedition beyond the wall where they get surrounded and attacked by a horde of zombies and magically the dragon teleports in to save them all.
so even though in youtube comments everyones expecting a slaughter, i predict that there won't be a slaughter. the only people who die will be the ones whose plot armor runs out, and they will have a "heroic" death, in contrast to oberyn who died to a wake up super command grab from zangief. i'm just not sure whose time has run out.
I think the return of plot armor and the slaughter being unlikely at this point are more due to plain bad writing of these later seasons than any intentional setup for a plottwist. A flimsy alliance of humans faces an all-engulfing threat of destruction: there should be an expectation of all-out defeat, no matter what show we're talking about. The fact that it isn't there is just because the writing isnt good and the show is failing at building up any tension.
On April 23 2019 00:45 Plansix wrote: Another trend I have noticed about this thread is that people are always negative when it comes to table setting episodes. This episode is a bottle episode where the focus is all about the day/days before the big battle. And its likely the last time we are going to see a bunch of these characters.
A bottle episode right after the episode of last week which was... a table setting episode. Consider for a minute how we've had nearly 2 hours of screen time so far and almost nothing of consequence has happened: the crowd has gathered at winterfell, jamie has switched sides, dany knows about jons heritage. That's all the actual plot points I can come up with. In a runtime equal to what many movies tell their whole story in.
And the build up to and knighting of Brienne of Tarth to a room of cheering men who all recognize her merit didn't make the list, which means you and I might watch the show for different reasons. Which is cool, but it means I might enjoy these episodes more than you do.
Sure its a meaningful moment and one of the scenes I actually quite liked. Primarily because there was some actual acting instead of the continuous 'blank serious face' I mentioned earlier. Is it really a meaningful plot point though? Will the fact that Brienne is now a knight have any further consequence in the show? It would have been big a few seasons ago, and I certainly would have considered it a plot point then. But with the white walkers now I dont think anyone will care after this scene.
On April 23 2019 00:45 Plansix wrote: Another trend I have noticed about this thread is that people are always negative when it comes to table setting episodes. This episode is a bottle episode where the focus is all about the day/days before the big battle. And its likely the last time we are going to see a bunch of these characters.
A bottle episode right after the episode of last week which was... a table setting episode. Consider for a minute how we've had nearly 2 hours of screen time so far and almost nothing of consequence has happened: the crowd has gathered at winterfell, jamie has switched sides, dany knows about jons heritage. That's all the actual plot points I can come up with. In a runtime equal to what many movies tell their whole story in.
And the build up to and knighting of Brienne of Tarth to a room of cheering men who all recognize her merit didn't make the list, which means you and I might watch the show for different reasons. Which is cool, but it means I might enjoy these episodes more than you do.
Sure its a meaningful moment and one of the scenes I actually quite liked. Primarily because there was some actual acting instead of the continuous 'blank serious face' I mentioned earlier. Is it really a meaningful plot point though? Will the fact that Brienne is now a knight have any further consequence in the show? It would have been big a few seasons ago, and I certainly would have considered it a plot point then. But with the white walkers now I dont think anyone will care after this scene.
What is the plot and how are things meaningful for it? Game of Thrones has always been an ensemble show about the various characters caught up in a war for the throne and were that takes them. The fantasy underpinnings always eluding to threat from the north that will require them to unite in some way towards the end. A woman being knighted and named a knight of the 7 Kingdom’s is a development. Jamie being the one doing it and it being accepted by the cast of characters present is a development because it is one of many signs that many of them ready to move on. The series plot has always been that someone will end up on that throne(or there will be no throne) and where all the characters end up after it is over.
I'm not particularly invested in the story at this point, but I'm seriously curious how they're going to wrap up a story with 4 remaining episodes. I'm not sure if the extra runtime is that useful if you still have to fit in multiple emotional conclusions in each episode.
I think its also that people are having PTSD from lost's ending. They are looking at the fact that the season is already 1/3rd over and there is a ton for the show to do with the remaining time it has. That clock on the wall means that the rest of the season becomes more predictable then planed. One of the largest flavors of GOT has been the unpredictability of it.
The night king just has to be defeated in this next episode or the one after that.
On April 23 2019 00:45 Plansix wrote: Another trend I have noticed about this thread is that people are always negative when it comes to table setting episodes. This episode is a bottle episode where the focus is all about the day/days before the big battle. And its likely the last time we are going to see a bunch of these characters.
A bottle episode right after the episode of last week which was... a table setting episode. Consider for a minute how we've had nearly 2 hours of screen time so far and almost nothing of consequence has happened: the crowd has gathered at winterfell, jamie has switched sides, dany knows about jons heritage. That's all the actual plot points I can come up with. In a runtime equal to what many movies tell their whole story in.
And the build up to and knighting of Brienne of Tarth to a room of cheering men who all recognize her merit didn't make the list, which means you and I might watch the show for different reasons. Which is cool, but it means I might enjoy these episodes more than you do.
I get that it's very nice for her character, I just want that stuff to be background that gives meaning to the plot. I want us to be invested in what Brienne does because of her journey. The knight stuff is great for being invested, it's a lot of payoff for her journey, but there also needs to be a "what Brienne does" part.
On April 23 2019 02:02 Sermokala wrote: I think its also that people are having PTSD from lost's ending. They are looking at the fact that the season is already 1/3rd over and there is a ton for the show to do with the remaining time it has. That clock on the wall means that the rest of the season becomes more predictable then planed. One of the largest flavors of GOT has been the unpredictability of it.
The night king just has to be defeated in this next episode or the one after that.
There's a theory that the reason we didn't see the NK at Winterfell on his dragon is because he's making a play straight for the Iron Throne and has gone south. That they're going to clear up the Cersei storyline first and then have the NK vs The Prince Who Was Promised endgame, rather than having the apocalyptic final battle up north, and then having dragons vs Cersei as some kind of Scouring of the Shire (in LotR they have the apocalyptic final battle at the Black Gates, Sauron is defeated, and then it turns out that Saruman is doing his own thing in the Shire and they have to go take care of that but it's pretty easy because they just defeated fucking Sauron and the stakes really just come down to provincial management).
On April 23 2019 02:02 Sermokala wrote: I think its also that people are having PTSD from lost's ending. They are looking at the fact that the season is already 1/3rd over and there is a ton for the show to do with the remaining time it has. That clock on the wall means that the rest of the season becomes more predictable then planed. One of the largest flavors of GOT has been the unpredictability of it.
The night king just has to be defeated in this next episode or the one after that.
There's a theory that the reason we didn't see the NK at Winterfell on his dragon is because he's making a play straight for the Iron Throne and has gone south. That they're going to clear up the Cersei storyline first and then have the NK vs The Prince Who Was Promised endgame, rather than having the apocalyptic final battle up north, and then having dragons vs Cersei as some kind of Scouring of the Shire (in LotR they have the apocalyptic final battle at the Black Gates, Sauron is defeated, and then it turns out that Saruman is doing his own thing in the Shire and they have to go take care of that but it's pretty easy because they just defeated fucking Sauron and the stakes really just come down to provincial management).
honestly thats the only way i can see this ending in a not anticlimactic way. If the nightking is at winterfell and wins they are really out of time to wrap up the living vs dead story AND cersei story. If they beat the undead at winterfell... honesty thats even worse. All this build up for a single battle that they just win? If the nightking goes for cersei first they can have the living loose or win at winterfell and still have options where the story goes + they dont need to spend time with jon/dany vs cersei
EPT
