10/10 if the High Sparrow just beheads Cersei & Margery next season and takes control over KL. Won't happen but god damn it that would be amazing.
For this episode: Well, everything has been said. Fight looked amazing and was a lot of fun but the more you think about it the more angry i get. Sometimes it feels like characters do dumb things just because they always do dumb things. To the point where a 10 year old would do better than some characters. Oh well. Fun episode. Looking forward to how the Jon/Sansa/LF three-way plays out.
I really wish there was more potential outs for the battle than the Vale showing up. It's obvious John has to win the battle or the show goes nowhere at all with everything it's done in the past 2-3 seasons, but then on top of that the only way to win the battle is help from the only army that could have potentially helped.
At the very least it would have been nice for John to do something tactically smart during the battle and not just blowing the whole thing. Even if he charged when it wasn't smart, they could have had him do something smart at some point.
On June 21 2016 01:18 Jalle wrote: The Bolton phalanx felt out of place and weird, otherwise 10/10. I love a good slaughter.
Other than the fact that it seems no other armies in this entire universe employ the strategy (maybe the Unsullied?), I didn't feel it was out of place. If Ramsay was half as clever as he thinks he is, he knows how inexperienced the Wildlings are at formal battles, and how effective it would be against them.
I think they could have done that without the Phalanx style shields and had the same effect though. I like the idea of that sort of death squeeze they had going on, but the phalanx shields were out of place.
On June 21 2016 01:22 Logo wrote: I really wish there was more potential outs for the battle than the Vale showing up. It's obvious John has to win the battle or the show goes nowhere at all with everything it's done in the past 2-3 seasons, but then on top of that the only way to win the battle is help from the only army that could have potentially helped.
At the very least it would have been nice for John to do something tactically smart during the battle and not just blowing the whole thing. Even if he charged when it wasn't smart, they could have had him do something smart at some point.
The reason Jon was able to raise the army in the first place is the same reason he made the mistake on the battle field. It’s why people follow him, because he cares and is willing to risk things for the people he cares about. One of the themes of the show is that no one rules well by themselves. Its why they talked about the flaws of following kings. It’s the same reason why Dany is so successful, because she listens to other people and inspires people to follow her.
It’s the same reason why Ned Stark died. Its because he didn’t bring his wife with him. They ruled together and failed when they were apart.
On June 20 2016 21:31 Scorch wrote: This shows why spears, halberds and the like ruled historical battlefields. Swords were mostly used as backup and self-defence weapons and in civilian life because they can be carried around conveniently as a sidearm. Also, they were much harder to make and expensive. I wonder what lindybeige and scholagladiatoria on Youtube will have to say about this battle.
Historical accuracy aside, not even in a fantasy setting should a giant go to battle unarmed. I wish he had taken a dead horse and smashed the shield wall with it.
im rela bothered by the fact wun wun didnt get any sort of weapon. give him a club and he wrecks the boltons close to singlehandedly. he's the equivalent of a tank with no cannon.
When they attacked the wall they had those epic bows
On June 21 2016 01:31 xDaunt wrote: The problem that I have with the phalanx is that it was used in assbackwards fashion. Who the hell leads with a cavalry charge?
I can sort of buy the cavalry charge, Ramsy was probably assuming he could get to John Snow first and get a quick kill on him while he was alone and possible just win the battle outright right then.
On June 20 2016 21:31 Scorch wrote: This shows why spears, halberds and the like ruled historical battlefields. Swords were mostly used as backup and self-defence weapons and in civilian life because they can be carried around conveniently as a sidearm. Also, they were much harder to make and expensive. I wonder what lindybeige and scholagladiatoria on Youtube will have to say about this battle.
Historical accuracy aside, not even in a fantasy setting should a giant go to battle unarmed. I wish he had taken a dead horse and smashed the shield wall with it.
im rela bothered by the fact wun wun didnt get any sort of weapon. give him a club and he wrecks the boltons close to singlehandedly. he's the equivalent of a tank with no cannon.
When they attacked the wall they had those epic bows
just noscope ramsay while he's picking on rickon and gg
The phalanx style is especially kind of at odds being it was used by a northern house. You'd expect this more out of the southern kindgoms, but the northern forces always felt more clan/tribe warriors/champions instead of formations like the phalanx.
The problem that I have with the phalanx is that it was used in assbackwards fashion. Who the hell leads with a cavalry charge?
wait, isn't this how you always win medieval battles? :D That's what the Total War series taught me. Just charge them with heavy cav np, morale breaks and you win.
On June 21 2016 01:31 xDaunt wrote: The problem that I have with the phalanx is that it was used in assbackwards fashion. Who the hell leads with a cavalry charge?
I can sort of buy the cavalry charge, Ramsy was probably assuming he could get to John Snow first and get a quick kill on him while he was alone and possible just win the battle outright right then.
it loooked like he planned to hold the enemy with the cav and then shoot arrows into both, which is basically sacrificing all of the cav for nothing, he had double the men PLUS apparently some greek phalanx PLUS medieval cav lancers going on versus peasent army.
On June 21 2016 01:31 xDaunt wrote: The problem that I have with the phalanx is that it was used in assbackwards fashion. Who the hell leads with a cavalry charge?
I can sort of buy the cavalry charge, Ramsy was probably assuming he could get to John Snow first and get a quick kill on him while he was alone and possible just win the battle outright right then.
it loooked like he planned to hold the enemy with the cav and then shoot arrows into both, which is basically sacrificing all of the cav for nothing, he had double the men PLUS apparently some greek phalanx PLUS medieval cav lancers going on versus peasent army.
Not to mention that cavalry is normally the more highly trained/expensive part of an army. The foot soldiers are the farmers who are given a stick with a pointy end while the actual soldiers ride horses.
So he kills his own trained soldiers so that his peasant cannon fodder can survive ><
On June 21 2016 01:22 Logo wrote: I really wish there was more potential outs for the battle than the Vale showing up. It's obvious John has to win the battle or the show goes nowhere at all with everything it's done in the past 2-3 seasons, but then on top of that the only way to win the battle is help from the only army that could have potentially helped.
At the very least it would have been nice for John to do something tactically smart during the battle and not just blowing the whole thing. Even if he charged when it wasn't smart, they could have had him do something smart at some point.
The reason Jon was able to raise the army in the first place is the same reason he made the mistake on the battle field. It’s why people follow him, because he cares and is willing to risk things for the people he cares about. One of the themes of the show is that no one rules well by themselves. Its why they talked about the flaws of following kings. It’s the same reason why Dany is so successful, because she listens to other people and inspires people to follow her.
It’s the same reason why Ned Stark died. Its because he didn’t bring his wife with him. They ruled together and failed when they were apart.
Well, another theme of the show is that good guys who don't make smart decisions end up being pincushions. Tormund looked like he was pleading with Jon not to do something stupid the entire way. The wildlings were shown to be really bad at strategy and Tormund knew what Ramsay was trying to do to Jon.
Nobody would confuse Sansa for a genius but she was much smarter than Jon this episode. She warned him that Rickon is pretty much dead. And warned him that Ramsay is the sort who would use this tactic to force them to charge instead of the other way around. Jon went full Robb Stark and just got lucky.
I loved the cinematography but was disappointed in the military strategy. I was hoping for more from Jon instead of doing something stupid and getting saved at the last second. At least, it would've been better for me if they were able to stick to their initial strategy before the Vale saved them.
On June 21 2016 01:22 Logo wrote: I really wish there was more potential outs for the battle than the Vale showing up. It's obvious John has to win the battle or the show goes nowhere at all with everything it's done in the past 2-3 seasons, but then on top of that the only way to win the battle is help from the only army that could have potentially helped.
At the very least it would have been nice for John to do something tactically smart during the battle and not just blowing the whole thing. Even if he charged when it wasn't smart, they could have had him do something smart at some point.
The reason Jon was able to raise the army in the first place is the same reason he made the mistake on the battle field. It’s why people follow him, because he cares and is willing to risk things for the people he cares about. One of the themes of the show is that no one rules well by themselves. Its why they talked about the flaws of following kings. It’s the same reason why Dany is so successful, because she listens to other people and inspires people to follow her.
It’s the same reason why Ned Stark died. Its because he didn’t bring his wife with him. They ruled together and failed when they were apart.
Well, another theme of the show is that good guys who don't make smart decisions end up being pincushions. Tormund looked like he was pleading with Jon not to do something stupid the entire way. The wildlings were shown to be really bad at strategy and Tormund knew what Ramsay was trying to do to Jon.
Nobody would confuse Sansa for a genius but she was much smarter than Jon this episode. She warned him that Rickon is pretty much dead. And warned him that Ramsay is the sort who would use this tactic to force them to charge instead of the other way around. Jon went full Robb Stark and just got lucky.
I loved the cinematography but was disappointed in the military strategy. I was hoping for more from Jon instead of doing something stupid and getting saved at the last second. At least, it would've been better for me if they were able to stick to their initial strategy before the Vale saved them.
Ned Stark went to the tower of Joy to fight two of the most renowned swordsmen of the time with like 4-5 guys because believe that was enough. Pretty sure someone told him to wait for more help, but he rushed to the tower because of his sister. And he nearly died because of that mistake. Jon has made a bunch of good decisions, but got played by Ramsay during the battle. A battle which he was likely to lose anyways.
These characters are not perfect, rational actors. It is what makes the show the show. Jon screwed up, but no one would follow him if he didn’t rush to save his brother.
I would have maybe liked to see something like Ramsy only commit some of his forces and have the battle play out somewhat similar, but with John ending up looking pretty ok by the end of it. Then have Ramsy fire arrows into his own troops slaughtering both sides and just like turn around and head back to the castle with the rest of the troops. Then at that point have the Vale come in.
Basically have the Vale be a little less of a complete savior and instead have them turn the fight from "John has almost no army left and can't take Winterfell" to the result we got.
The way it is now is a little bit too much of John totally sucking and doing nothing right. I don't mind characters making mistakes, but if we're going to continue liking them they need to actually do something right sometimes. John has basically just consistently fucked everything up since winning the battle at the wall. He's screwed it up for the right reasons, but at some point you got to go enough is enough. He's slaughtered more men than a lot of the evil people in the show at this point.
EPT
