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What Are You Reading 2015 - Page 20

Forum Index > Media & Entertainment
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oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 09 2015 23:53 GMT
#381
but everything you said was irrelevant and i've explained why. i don't completely understand where you are coming from but i know it isn't relevant to the book you haven't read.

i don't see why you feel entitled to make comments on a pretty widely acclaimed book.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
April 10 2015 00:12 GMT
#382
well, no - you just STATED that everything I said was irrelevant. I don't really see what "wide acclamation" has to do with it - I'm somehow obliged to like something just because other people do? But whatever, this is a totally unrewarding conversation. I just think it's a little precious to publish a book in 2010 which claims "Hey Guys! There's no such thing as a 'self'!!" Like... duh. But I'm sure it's brilliant and revolutionary and stuff.

On April 10 2015 08:16 Nyxisto wrote:
And what about first person concious experience? Shouldn't we have turned into some kind of concious hivemind if we're just 'interacting processes?'


I'm not sure I understand the worry. Why couldn't interacting processes be capable of internal differentiation? For example, the cells in your body.
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
April 10 2015 00:22 GMT
#383
Well I just wouldn't think that the conciousness would appear as absolute and distinct as it does if it wasn't in some way real. Why do I actually experience reality from my distinct perspective if "I" is just some arbitrary concept that doesn't actually exist? Seems like it totally contradicts everybody's most fundamental experience.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 10 2015 00:25 GMT
#384
not going to continue this, i've made the arguments already.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
April 10 2015 00:38 GMT
#385
On April 10 2015 09:25 oneofthem wrote:
not going to continue this, i've made the arguments already.


yes, and very eloquently too <3

On April 10 2015 09:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Well I just wouldn't think that the conciousness would appear as absolute and distinct as it does if it wasn't in some way real. Why do I actually experience reality from my distinct perspective if "I" is just some arbitrary concept that doesn't actually exist? Seems like it totally contradicts everybody's most fundamental experience.


I don't know, I can't speak for the other guy. I think consciousness is completely "real", it's just not a thing, because there aren't any things. I think you would readily agree that you are not identical with yourself over time, which is just to say that you are always changing. If you need consciousness to be a "thing" in order be real, this would be a problem - but since we know that there is no such "Being Nyxisto," but only a "becoming-Nyxisto,' it doesn't bother us

Basically I think the entire mind-body problem as it is pursued in analytic philosophy and pop-philosophy is just an artifact of a bad ontology. I don't claim to understand what the right ontology would be, but I do think that it is precisely armchair metaphysics, and not experimental science, which is called for here. Which is not to say that reading about neuroscience might not be useful in this endeavor.
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
April 10 2015 00:38 GMT
#386
On another note altogether, does anyone know what are the last big (legit) studies that people have done either on "epic poetry" and/or myth & folklore?
dmnum
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Brazil6910 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-10 00:49:52
April 10 2015 00:46 GMT
#387
These discussions always make me want to read more philosophy, but I always return to my bedtime stories after getting burned out from reading one philosophy book.

I might tackle Benjamin sometime soon though, because my Cinema and Law teacher can't stop talking about him, and it sounds like something I might enjoy. Plus, I have a huge crush on her, so I don't want to look like an uneducated twit.
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
April 10 2015 00:49 GMT
#388
Benjamin is the best. Just gotta jump in headfirst and read the arcades project. I can give you a list of convolutes to look at first. You should also read susan buck-morss the dialectics of seeing which is the best secondary text for the book. But warning - reading WB may fuck up your head forever.

You could also start with 'on the concept of history'
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18821 Posts
April 10 2015 00:54 GMT
#389
On April 10 2015 09:46 dmnum wrote:
These discussions always make me want to read more philosophy, but I always return to my bedtime stories after getting burned out from reading one philosophy book.

I might tackle Benjamin sometime soon though, because my Cinema and Law teacher can't stop talking about him, and it sounds like something I might enjoy. Plus, I have a huge crush on her, so I don't want to look like an uneducated twit.

Make sure you have some maconha for the ride if possible
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
dmnum
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Brazil6910 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-10 00:57:04
April 10 2015 00:55 GMT
#390
I'm going to start with "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction", but let's see how it goes from there.

Edit: Thanks for the tip farva, I'll make sure I get some erva.
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
April 10 2015 00:57 GMT
#391
That one's okay but its sort of obvious to us in 2015
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-10 01:03:25
April 10 2015 01:01 GMT
#392
for a beginner intro to what critical theory is about i'd suggest fromm's sane society and early horkheimer, critique of instrumental reason/eclipse of reason. of course, dialectics of enlightenment as well.

not that you shouldn't read benjamin but if you have a hard time making the forest from the trees there's other flavors to try.


having a crush on cute instructor is always a huge motivating factor.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
bookwyrm
Profile Joined March 2014
United States722 Posts
April 10 2015 01:02 GMT
#393
Nah. Jump in headfirst and learn to swim
si hortum in bibliotheca habes, deerit nihil
dmnum
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Brazil6910 Posts
April 10 2015 01:04 GMT
#394
I don't know, but I'll have to discuss it in two or three weeks, so I'm going to have to read it anyway. My teacher is this smokin' hot 28 year blonde who's making us read Bauman, Berman and Benjamin while watching Citizen Kane and Ace in the Hole, so I'm afraid some bad poetry will be written this semester.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 10 2015 01:06 GMT
#395
you should totally try to naturalize all that shit in the name of clarity and she will be impressed by your steely logic.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Surth
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Germany456 Posts
April 10 2015 02:21 GMT
#396
On April 10 2015 05:07 bookwyrm wrote:
That article says the same "thing":

"Metzinger, in the first sentence of the book, states his aim straightforwardly as "to convince us that there is no such thing as a self" because, "contrary to what most people believe, nobody has ever been or had a self""

All of this depends on the assumption that we have an ontology which is based on the idea of "objects" - it's assumed by the grammar of "Being" and "Having". You can "be" someTHING, you can "have" someTHING. But there aren't any things in the world, only processes: everything which we experience as an 'object' is only such in virtue of the fact that it is a process which is always reproducing itself more or less successfully (i.e. we mistakenly believe that *attractors* are *objects*). In formal logic you have these entities called "logical objects" which are empty pegs on which you can hang predicates (the "x" in F(x)), but there's nothing in a (correct) ontology to which this "logical object" corresponds (as Hegel showed in the beginning of his Phenomenology).

So once you realize this, it's sort of an empty claim to say that there's no such "thing" as a self, because we already know that there's no such "thing" as a "thing." There are, however, *processes of becoming* and therefore there are "becoming-selves" - which is no different from the realization that all things are actually processes of becoming-themselves.

which is not to say that he's wrong, just... duh! but maybe i should read the book

Why are you arguing this with Hegel! https://www.academia.edu/6404712/Nietzsche_and_19th_Century_Linguistics
i believe your actions dishonour Starcraft 2 LotV cybersport!
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-10 02:44:08
April 10 2015 02:43 GMT
#397
I'm always unhappy with the "philosophy" period I went through. I know everyone has their philosophy phases (some people go on for longer, some people are way more consistent, obviously, but I think everyone goes through at least a short phase).

My phase was looking into Bertrand Russel's history of philosophy that my father had bought for himself, skimmed the first page, fell asleep, and haven't touched a lot of other philosophy since.

As a student taking a class on critical theory, obviously I've read some essays, and there have been philosophy readings in some of my other classes too as well as trying to touch some of it now, but I always really regret not making a more concerted effort to have read a bit more when I was in that short and excited phase that lasted like two minutes. T_T;
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
April 10 2015 05:46 GMT
#398
On April 10 2015 11:43 Zergneedsfood wrote:
I'm always unhappy with the "philosophy" period I went through. I know everyone has their philosophy phases (some people go on for longer, some people are way more consistent, obviously, but I think everyone goes through at least a short phase).

My phase was looking into Bertrand Russel's history of philosophy that my father had bought for himself, skimmed the first page, fell asleep, and haven't touched a lot of other philosophy since.

As a student taking a class on critical theory, obviously I've read some essays, and there have been philosophy readings in some of my other classes too as well as trying to touch some of it now, but I always really regret not making a more concerted effort to have read a bit more when I was in that short and excited phase that lasted like two minutes. T_T;


I think philosophy, for myself at least, is more like a quest you're on for your whole life, searching for meaning and answers to questions. I think of my own phases and I think I approached stuff that fit with my attitude at the time - maybe in your case Russel's particular book just didn't click for you and where you were as a person. Don't be too worried about not reading the classics or being in on all the heady discussion (I feel that way when people talk about stuff like Derrida or Deleuze or w/e).
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
April 10 2015 07:58 GMT
#399
On April 10 2015 05:54 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2015 05:45 corumjhaelen wrote:
You don't have a good enchanter to make your life what you want, that's all :p
Neither do I

Ahh but you and I have the next best thing, which is the enchanter that already exists in our heads! He just needs the right incantations, naturally.

He's called Imagination isn't he ? Cool guy.
Also oneofthem seems to be what JonnyBNoHo would become if he started to read books. I don't think the world needed that.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
April 10 2015 10:55 GMT
#400
reminder to self, never pick a fight with english department. what a hot mess.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
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