On May 22 2013 02:53 andyrau wrote: nice strawman but if we want to do this, it's more like a nascar driver telling everyone they're contributing to global warming during his victory speech after winning the Indy500. + Show Spoiler +
lol is that a big race? I am probably pulling shit out of my ass.
like I understand where the so-called irony is coming from, but point is, you need a podium to launch your ideas off, and kanye uses his voice as a rapper to broadcast this message even if his position in life makes it rather unsuitable for him to do so. how else would he express his sentiment?
No, it's not like that. My point is Kanye is being fake by trying to assimilate himself to his audience by saying they're the one and the same; when in reality he is far different. That's why I drew the comparison of f1 driver to truck driver. "yeah we both drive automobiles". He draws the conclusion of "hey you and i ain't so different, cuz I buy maybachs, and you buy whatever else you buy, therefore we must be the same".
On May 22 2013 02:38 andyrau wrote: the thing is I've understood all of his points except for the part where wei2coolman says kanye is being fake simply because he is rich. he isn't telling everyone to stop consuming, he is telling everyone they are slaves to capitalism, and we all play into the system no matter what level of wealth we can claim. you can be rich as hell and sell your bullshit to the masses, but in the end you're still succumbing to the corporate societal pressure of hedonism and needing fancy toys to show off your status.
unless you're like bill gates and donate your life savings to social welfare, of course. but not everyone is bill gates.
edit: forming cohesive statements from a phone is hard
wanting fancy toys to show off your status is a different matter entirely than struggling to get by as a lower class citizen (or being even lower than a lower class citizen), trying to conflate the two is beyond idiotic. that's not the struggles of the working class, and presenting it as such is disingenuous. no, it is the struggle of a rich manchild trying to rationalize his behaviour.
edit: if you however choose to take it seriously, you have no real reason to believe that it is his real sentiment. evidence points to the contrary, if you actually, truly believed that it was a problem, you would not be able to live like that.
in which part of this new track does he try and 'assimilate' himself? and what part of his life prior to his rise to fame render him incapable to empathize with the rest of us? and why can't he rap from that persona? this is why I don't see any part of your argument making sense.
it's about perception. he can try to rap from that persona about that, but i won't take it seriously. i don't get that first question, but i won't blame you. writing on phone is tr-tr-tr-tricky.
edit: i'm guessing you're asking where he draws parallels between the struggles, which was i thought was the whole frame of the song.
You see it's broke nigga racism That's that "Don't touch anything in the store" And this rich nigga racism That's that "Come here, please buy more"
On May 22 2013 02:38 andyrau wrote: the thing is I've understood all of his points except for the part where wei2coolman says kanye is being fake simply because he is rich. he isn't telling everyone to stop consuming, he is telling everyone they are slaves to capitalism, and we all play into the system no matter what level of wealth we can claim. you can be rich as hell and sell your bullshit to the masses, but in the end you're still succumbing to the corporate societal pressure of hedonism and needing fancy toys to show off your status.
unless you're like bill gates and donate your life savings to social welfare, of course. but not everyone is bill gates.
edit: forming cohesive statements from a phone is hard
wanting fancy toys to show off your status is a different matter entirely than struggling to get by as a lower class citizen (or being even lower than a lower class citizen), trying to conflate the two is beyond idiotic. that's not the struggles of the working class, and presenting it as such is disingenuous. no, it is the struggle of a rich manchild trying to rationalize his behaviour.
edit: if you however choose to take it seriously, you have no real reason to believe that it is his real sentiment. evidence points to the contrary, if you actually, truly believed that it was a problem, you would not be able to live like that.
He's not saying that he has the same problems as a poor man though, he's saying even though their problems are different it still stems from being slaves to consumerism.
As for your edit, a central theme in kanyes music has always been recognizing his problems yet falling for them anyway. Like in runaway (maybe not word for word accurate on my phone right now) "see I can find me a good girl/and still be attracted to the hoodrats"). In mbdtf it was about his problems with women, here it's about his wealth. He recognizes that what he is doing is sick, but he can't help himself. It's why he says he's a slave. It's not why the poor man is a slave, but they're both slaves, for different reasons.
On May 22 2013 02:38 andyrau wrote: the thing is I've understood all of his points except for the part where wei2coolman says kanye is being fake simply because he is rich. he isn't telling everyone to stop consuming, he is telling everyone they are slaves to capitalism, and we all play into the system no matter what level of wealth we can claim. you can be rich as hell and sell your bullshit to the masses, but in the end you're still succumbing to the corporate societal pressure of hedonism and needing fancy toys to show off your status.
unless you're like bill gates and donate your life savings to social welfare, of course. but not everyone is bill gates.
edit: forming cohesive statements from a phone is hard
wanting fancy toys to show off your status is a different matter entirely than struggling to get by as a lower class citizen (or being even lower than a lower class citizen), trying to conflate the two is beyond idiotic. that's not the struggles of the working class, and presenting it as such is disingenuous. no, it is the struggle of a rich manchild trying to rationalize his behaviour.
edit: if you however choose to take it seriously, you have no real reason to believe that it is his real sentiment. evidence points to the contrary, if you actually, truly believed that it was a problem, you would not be able to live like that.
well all things aside, by classifying poor people as 'lower class citizens' that's rude as fuck, lol
and besides, he's not directly comparing the two. Obviously the struggles of the poor and wealthy are different, but the track is more about the evils of capitalism rather than the individual 'look at how rich I am and how much I suffer as a result'.
On May 22 2013 03:06 nunez wrote: it's about perception. he can try to rap from that persona about that, but i won't take it seriously. i don't get that first question, but i won't blame you. writing on phone is tr-tr-tr-tricky.
edit: i'm guessing you're asking where he draws parallels between the struggles, which was i thought was the whole frame of the song.
You see it's broke nigga racism That's that "Don't touch anything in the store" And this rich nigga racism That's that "Come here, please buy more"
so how would that be broken down? 'broke nigga racism' refers to the fact that when you're poor, you seek materialistic pleasures created by corporations and by creating this illusion, they keep the average man 'down'. 'rich nigga racism' refers to rich people incentivized to continue sucking at the tit of corporations, just to display the fact that they are, in fact, rich.
what part of that message is ingenuine?
and by persona I meant when he wtas still broke and making beats to keep on the lights whilst lusting after some lv loafers or some shit.
On May 22 2013 02:56 wei2coolman wrote: No, it's not like that. My point is Kanye is being fake by trying to assimilate himself to his audience by saying they're the one and the same; when in reality he is far different. That's why I drew the comparison of f1 driver to truck driver. "yeah we both drive automobiles". He draws the conclusion of "hey you and i ain't so different, cuz I buy maybachs, and you buy whatever else you buy, therefore we must be the same".
At no point did he say that they are the same thing at all... He even makes a point to differentiate them.
On May 22 2013 03:03 andyrau wrote: in which part of this new track does he try and 'assimilate' himself? and what part of his life prior to his rise to fame render him incapable to empathize with the rest of us? and why can't he rap from that persona? this is why I don't see any part of your argument making sense.
"we the new slaves" "we" = him, and audience. But he's not rapping from that persona; he doesn't talk about his past. He's talking about the current him, the ones rolling in all the cash, and exuberant consumerism.
On May 22 2013 02:56 wei2coolman wrote: No, it's not like that. My point is Kanye is being fake by trying to assimilate himself to his audience by saying they're the one and the same; when in reality he is far different. That's why I drew the comparison of f1 driver to truck driver. "yeah we both drive automobiles". He draws the conclusion of "hey you and i ain't so different, cuz I buy maybachs, and you buy whatever else you buy, therefore we must be the same".
At no point did he say that they are the same thing at all... He even makes a point to differentiate them.
Yes. The whole point is that they're all new slaves, for different reasons.
See andyraus broke nigga/rich nigga differentiation. Kanye is saying he's a rich nigga, but he still faces problems stemming from greed and consumerism.
On May 22 2013 03:44 DystopiaX wrote: Yes. The whole point is that they're all new slaves, for different reasons.
See andyraus broke nigga/rich nigga differentiation. Kanye is saying he's a rich nigga, but he still faces problems stemming from greed and consumerism.
But, he plays himself as a victim of greed and consumerism; which is clearly a joke. He's not the new slave. He's the new slave driver. He groups himself up with everyone as "new slaves". And then he has the balls of calling his consumerism to the equivalent to lynching "see blood on the leaves".
On May 22 2013 03:48 DystopiaX wrote: He is a victim of greed and consumerism. Want is want, the price tag doesn't matter.
lol, he's not the victim, he is the perpetrator. what's his job? to sell. to sell his image. his music. his way of life. he is the literally the slave driver of the new slaves. and he has the balls to try and empathize with his audience? rofl, the guy is detached from reality.
On May 22 2013 02:38 andyrau wrote: the thing is I've understood all of his points except for the part where wei2coolman says kanye is being fake simply because he is rich. he isn't telling everyone to stop consuming, he is telling everyone they are slaves to capitalism, and we all play into the system no matter what level of wealth we can claim. you can be rich as hell and sell your bullshit to the masses, but in the end you're still succumbing to the corporate societal pressure of hedonism and needing fancy toys to show off your status.
unless you're like bill gates and donate your life savings to social welfare, of course. but not everyone is bill gates.
edit: forming cohesive statements from a phone is hard
wanting fancy toys to show off your status is a different matter entirely than struggling to get by as a lower class citizen (or being even lower than a lower class citizen), trying to conflate the two is beyond idiotic. that's not the struggles of the working class, and presenting it as such is disingenuous. no, it is the struggle of a rich manchild trying to rationalize his behaviour.
edit: if you however choose to take it seriously, you have no real reason to believe that it is his real sentiment. evidence points to the contrary, if you actually, truly believed that it was a problem, you would not be able to live like that.
well all things aside, by classifying poor people as 'lower class citizens' that's rude as fuck, lol
depends on how you choose to interpret it, you chose an interpretation i did not have in mind when i wrote it. seems like a recurring theme.
On May 22 2013 03:32 andyrau wrote: and besides, he's not directly comparing the two. Obviously the struggles of the poor and wealthy are different, but the track is more about the evils of capitalism rather than the individual 'look at how rich I am and how much I suffer as a result'.
i think you are being overly generous here. i hardly see anything specifically aimed at capitalism in this song.
On May 22 2013 03:06 nunez wrote: it's about perception. he can try to rap from that persona about that, but i won't take it seriously. i don't get that first question, but i won't blame you. writing on phone is tr-tr-tr-tricky.
edit: i'm guessing you're asking where he draws parallels between the struggles, which was i thought was the whole frame of the song.
You see it's broke nigga racism That's that "Don't touch anything in the store" And this rich nigga racism That's that "Come here, please buy more"
so how would that be broken down? 'broke nigga racism' refers to the fact that when you're poor, you seek materialistic pleasures created by corporations and by creating this illusion, they keep the average man 'down'. 'rich nigga racism' refers to rich people incentivized to continue sucking at the tit of corporations, just to display the fact that they are, in fact, rich.
what part of that message is ingenuine?
and by persona I meant when he wtas still broke and making beats to keep on the lights whilst lusting after some lv loafers or some shit.
well, yes, exactly. how would that be broken down. if you think that your interpretation of it is 'the factual' interpretation, i can see why we are not able to see eye to eye.
On May 22 2013 02:38 andyrau wrote: the thing is I've understood all of his points except for the part where wei2coolman says kanye is being fake simply because he is rich. he isn't telling everyone to stop consuming, he is telling everyone they are slaves to capitalism, and we all play into the system no matter what level of wealth we can claim. you can be rich as hell and sell your bullshit to the masses, but in the end you're still succumbing to the corporate societal pressure of hedonism and needing fancy toys to show off your status.
unless you're like bill gates and donate your life savings to social welfare, of course. but not everyone is bill gates.
edit: forming cohesive statements from a phone is hard
wanting fancy toys to show off your status is a different matter entirely than struggling to get by as a lower class citizen (or being even lower than a lower class citizen), trying to conflate the two is beyond idiotic. that's not the struggles of the working class, and presenting it as such is disingenuous. no, it is the struggle of a rich manchild trying to rationalize his behaviour.
edit: if you however choose to take it seriously, you have no real reason to believe that it is his real sentiment. evidence points to the contrary, if you actually, truly believed that it was a problem, you would not be able to live like that.
well all things aside, by classifying poor people as 'lower class citizens' that's rude as fuck, lol
depends on how you choose to interpret it, you chose an interpretation i did not have in mind when i wrote it. seems like a recurring theme.
On May 22 2013 03:32 andyrau wrote: and besides, he's not directly comparing the two. Obviously the struggles of the poor and wealthy are different, but the track is more about the evils of capitalism rather than the individual 'look at how rich I am and how much I suffer as a result'.
i think you are being overly generous here. i hardly see anything specifically aimed at capitalism in this song.
On May 22 2013 03:06 nunez wrote: it's about perception. he can try to rap from that persona about that, but i won't take it seriously. i don't get that first question, but i won't blame you. writing on phone is tr-tr-tr-tricky.
edit: i'm guessing you're asking where he draws parallels between the struggles, which was i thought was the whole frame of the song.
You see it's broke nigga racism That's that "Don't touch anything in the store" And this rich nigga racism That's that "Come here, please buy more"
so how would that be broken down? 'broke nigga racism' refers to the fact that when you're poor, you seek materialistic pleasures created by corporations and by creating this illusion, they keep the average man 'down'. 'rich nigga racism' refers to rich people incentivized to continue sucking at the tit of corporations, just to display the fact that they are, in fact, rich.
what part of that message is ingenuine?
and by persona I meant when he wtas still broke and making beats to keep on the lights whilst lusting after some lv loafers or some shit.
well, yes, exactly. how would that be broken down. if you think that your interpretation of it is 'the factual' interpretation, i can see why we are not able to see eye to eye.
one is discrimination, the other one is not.
yo all the suburban white kids who write rap genius agree with me ur obv in the wrong here
On May 22 2013 03:52 DystopiaX wrote: At this point were both just repeating the shit we said 2 pages ago, it's pretty clear neither of us is going to convince the other.
yea, it's a moot exercise. interesting discussion though. pip pip cheerio and all that jazz
On May 22 2013 02:38 andyrau wrote: the thing is I've understood all of his points except for the part where wei2coolman says kanye is being fake simply because he is rich. he isn't telling everyone to stop consuming, he is telling everyone they are slaves to capitalism, and we all play into the system no matter what level of wealth we can claim. you can be rich as hell and sell your bullshit to the masses, but in the end you're still succumbing to the corporate societal pressure of hedonism and needing fancy toys to show off your status.
unless you're like bill gates and donate your life savings to social welfare, of course. but not everyone is bill gates.
edit: forming cohesive statements from a phone is hard
wanting fancy toys to show off your status is a different matter entirely than struggling to get by as a lower class citizen (or being even lower than a lower class citizen), trying to conflate the two is beyond idiotic. that's not the struggles of the working class, and presenting it as such is disingenuous. no, it is the struggle of a rich manchild trying to rationalize his behaviour.
edit: if you however choose to take it seriously, you have no real reason to believe that it is his real sentiment. evidence points to the contrary, if you actually, truly believed that it was a problem, you would not be able to live like that.
well all things aside, by classifying poor people as 'lower class citizens' that's rude as fuck, lol
depends on how you choose to interpret it, you chose an interpretation i did not have in mind when i wrote it. seems like a recurring theme.
On May 22 2013 03:32 andyrau wrote: and besides, he's not directly comparing the two. Obviously the struggles of the poor and wealthy are different, but the track is more about the evils of capitalism rather than the individual 'look at how rich I am and how much I suffer as a result'.
i think you are being overly generous here. i hardly see anything specifically aimed at capitalism in this song.
On May 22 2013 03:32 andyrau wrote:
On May 22 2013 03:06 nunez wrote: it's about perception. he can try to rap from that persona about that, but i won't take it seriously. i don't get that first question, but i won't blame you. writing on phone is tr-tr-tr-tricky.
edit: i'm guessing you're asking where he draws parallels between the struggles, which was i thought was the whole frame of the song.
You see it's broke nigga racism That's that "Don't touch anything in the store" And this rich nigga racism That's that "Come here, please buy more"
so how would that be broken down? 'broke nigga racism' refers to the fact that when you're poor, you seek materialistic pleasures created by corporations and by creating this illusion, they keep the average man 'down'. 'rich nigga racism' refers to rich people incentivized to continue sucking at the tit of corporations, just to display the fact that they are, in fact, rich.
what part of that message is ingenuine?
and by persona I meant when he wtas still broke and making beats to keep on the lights whilst lusting after some lv loafers or some shit.
well, yes, exactly. how would that be broken down. if you think that your interpretation of it is 'the factual' interpretation, i can see why we are not able to see eye to eye.
one is discrimination, the other one is not.
yo all the suburban white kids who write rap genius agree with me ur obv in the wrong here
I can kinda see how some of you got the idea that Kanye is writing about consumerism on the whole, but you're laughably wrong. Its as if you heard the title of the song then, applying a healthy bias, attacked the sentiments merits. Problem is the sentiment you are attack is not the one espoused by Kanye in this song. This song is primarily about how rich black Americans (read: rappers) are entirely embroiled in the acquisition of expensive goods. Bentleys, fur coats, diamond chain, Alexander Wang clothing, Maybachs. All name dropped for what reason? Rappers love that shit and chances are no one who reads this comment will have a single item mentioned, nor know anyone that does. Are you starting to see how its not about you, wei2coolman & friends.
Now here's where it gets more interesting. Kanye has delineated two classes of blacks: the "rich nigga" and the "broke nigga". The character of the "rich nigga" is what I just explained, the black man who finds himself with money, and pandered to:
"Come here, please buy more" "Y'all throwing contracts at me" "Throw 'em some Maybach keys"
The slavery Kanye is discussing boils down to the cycle which money in question is taking. Disenfranchised Black Americans constructed and maintain to this day an entire genre of popular music. They dug up dust and built an empire. And yet where do we see a huge portion of this money going? Fashion companies, car companies, jewelry companies. White-as-fuck industries. The money that they earned from a black industry is going full circle. Out of the white suburbs (the main consumer of hiphop, at least monetarily), into the black man's hands then back out into some elite industry.
As for the "broke nigga". He's not the GAP working, Ralph Lauren Polo wearing black man they want around. He's the "Don't touch anything in the store" prison bound man that makes people cross the street. That's the class which society demonized and ghettoized. The class which exists in mass incarceration. The class which powers the prison industrial complex. That is what it is to be a "broke nigga".
Now tell me where Kanye is attacking you for buying a Big Mac. Or lamenting about the conditions of Apple workers and mindless droves lining up to buy the fruit of their labour. The only line I can bled a drop of counter-argument out of is this one
"Used to only be niggas now everybody playing"
But look at the lines that flank it. It is a statement solely about those who were once "niggas", now buying Alexander Wang. $500 t-shirts. It's not you, ya hear.
Whether or not you agree with the analysis presented (I definitely have issues with it), it's certainly an interesting thing to behold. I don't think music has had a figure to reach the same level of creativity in the last decade. I am so excited to see what he can do come June 18th.
EPT
