EPTStar Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 160
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We made a thread specifically for Episode 8 now, let us head over to that one  http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/entertainment/521373-star-wars-episode-viii-the-last-jedi | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
It was bad at the time. It's like watching Twitch when someone is getting their green screen set up for the first time, and it looks ultra obvious because the lines around them are a bit fuzzy. Only add in that they're trying to dodge obstacles. The style was supposed to be cartoony. Plus things like animals and actual character movements swing weirdly. Then you've got the sword fighting, which is so flowery and has so much twirling in it. Those are bad sword fights. The acting ranges from bad to good, but the dialogue is miserable. Ewan McGregor did what he could, but you can't save dumb lines like, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" or Hayden's "sand blah blah blah", "Breaking my heart", etc.. Lucas has no regard for "show, don't say". More awful exposition is his solution to everything. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On January 01 2016 21:10 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: I agree with you Jibba, this post and the one about Lucas you quoted, but at least the prequels had a new story. And a pacing I prefer. Pacing that's wrong for the box office, but does allow for telling of a story. With the pacing this new movie had, if you have an actually new and interesting story, the audience will be confused. This rehashed story with 0 depth was mandatory to allow the fast pace and lack of dialogue that we saw. Economy of motion is one thing, where every scene needs to hammer down a point, and in a sense it is an art. But I like my movies to meander along a bit. I agree Lucas had years to think out an elegant plot. But that sometimes is the problem. When you need to connect A to B and go through C, D and E, and you redo the same problem over and over, you risk getting into a mess. You lose elegance and in your mind it all becomes blurred. Even with Tolkien this is true. But even if you find the right way to close all plotholes, preemt all the fan's need for answers, you can't do it if you can't meander along every once in a while. The fact that the only times TFA slowed down was to make a nod to old Star Wars. that's why people are annoyed by it. I predict that once this trilogy is finished, we will know what George Lucas added and is gone now. And we will get to be more aware of the positive qualities of the prequels, as deeply flawed and silly they are. Let's not forget how bad OT sometimes was, especially Return of the Jedi. Jar Jar speaking to the senate on her behalf is not an elegant plot point. It makes no sense for him to be able to do that. ANH didn't have that much world building in it, btw. The OT had relatively few new settings compared to the prequels, and most of those came in ESB and ROTJ. Again, I think they played it safe for TFA because of the skepticism due to the prequels. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
As a creative thinker myself, I kind of understand his attitude of wanting to tell the story the way he thinks it unfolded vs what you think the audience wants to see. But no matter how much you think about it, you can't even figure out what is going wrong/on in George Lucas's brain. Doesn't mean Abrams isn't a shallow director. Not taking risk? They take risk ever anywhere? Like half movies made today are based on something that already makes x amount of money based on name recognition solely. And almost all movies used to be based on books. But now almost every movie is based on a movie. | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
The main argument - which isn't a valid argument at all - Does Lucas have the right to do whatever he wants with the things he creates? Yes, that absolutely is his perogative. However, anyone who is a creator of something - whether it be music, or dramaturgical, or visual art.... whatever it is - knows that there's an enormous paradox contained in that statement. It's simultaneously true and false. If you set something in motion, that artistic creation has been imbued with a certain kind of logic and behavioral traits; should you ever wish to add to the piece that you created, you absolutely MUST make sure that whatever is instantiated follows the same logic as the original material, otherwise the new object will not function correctly, and could even damage the original. And that's the sin of the prequel trilogy in a nutshell. Gerorge Lucas decided that he could do whatever he wanted with his children "because that's his right", but the paradox is that this choice that he says was never possible in the first place assuming you want to create something good, and not destroy what you've already done. It's our right as intelligent people to call him out on being a complete moron for not understanding how art works. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Apparently Lucas wanted to make the stars of episode 7 teenagers. Disney obviously wanted nothing to do with that. The more interviews I see of JJ, the more I think he very much does not like, nor does he respect, Lucas. Also, stay the fuck away from Indy, Lucas. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On January 02 2016 05:19 On_Slaught wrote: What cracks me up is Lucas sticking to this whole "Star Wars is a kids movie" shtick. No doubt it appeals to kids (and we now know that merchandising is a huge reason why he wants this to be the case), but to say that and then make movies as boring as the Prequels, with their long talks of trade negotiations and congressional procedure, it smacks of hypocrisy or incompetence. Apparently Lucas wanted to make the stars of episode 7 teenagers. Disney obviously wanted nothing to do with that. The more interviews I see of JJ, the more I think he very much does not like, nor does he respect, Lucas. Also, stay the fuck away from Indy, Lucas. Well you know when Carrie Fisher began to make ANH she was 19, so theres not difference, now TFA is made for kids like every SW, it is its main appealing: kids and teenagers, in TFA even the villaine looks like a brat teenager, that is why I dont even understand your post, and I agree that the prequels were bad. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
In short, you could say that SW is meant to be a kids' movie, but not a juvenile one that has a main character stepping in poop. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On January 01 2016 23:01 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: That put together with Jedi not supposed to have children, at least Ben Kenobi knew that. In fact, it is exactly romantic love that leads to Anakin's downfall (or at least that's how George Lucas wanted to tell the story). Would be strange for him to fall in love with a woman and have a child. Same with Luke. He should have learned from either Ben or Yoda the old Jedi rulebook. I mean, that was super-important to them; the only way to fight off the dark side. Lawful stupid? Maybe. But the way Lucas want's to tell the story, the only way to protect your jedi against the dark side is to be lawful stupid. Romantic love and lust are (were) both paths to the dark side. Now maybe Disney//JJ Abrams/whoever is writing will retcon this, as obviously audiences don't really connect well with the Jedi code. They find it hard to accept the silliness of the rigid thinking of the good guys. This kinda misses the point of the OT. The Jedi Masters (Yoda, Obi-Wan, the prequel Jedi) were all "no emotion/emotion dangerous!!!" But the point of the confrontations between Luke and Yoda/ObiWan in V and VI was that they were wrong... good emotion, love, kindness, etc. was actually something you were supposed to embrace, and that this was ultimately more important than just hiding from the evil emotions. It's easy to imagine the Luke-sponsored new Jedi ending up with a code more comfortable with sex and romantic love, and attachment generally. Early Jedi were very much along these lines, a reversion is not unthinkable. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
And the lawful stupid in the prequels, that's likely more an artifact of Lucas' fumbling than intended portrayal. Whatever Luke did is whatever he decided, which could be anything. That he didn't exactly follow the old teachings right away means nothing. All we know now is that Luke is living as a hermit secretly. We don't see a family man happy with his wife and children, celebrating life in some pocket of peace, while he teaches new Jedi. | ||
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Yurie
11927 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17421 Posts
Lucas is such a shitty director  Sometimes I wish I wouldn't know those things... Ignorance is bliss. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
During the early parts of the fight, its pretty clear that Ren is trying to disarm her, before she finds her focus and goes ham on him. | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
The acting ranges from bad to good, but the dialogue is miserable. Ewan McGregor did what he could, but you can't save dumb lines like, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" What's dumb about that line? o.O | ||
zatic
Zurich15355 Posts
First of all, that's an absolute. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
Ok...awkward nitpicky reason has been given. Anything better? | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On January 02 2016 18:26 Orcasgt24 wrote: Ok...awkward nitpicky reason has been given. Anything better? How is it a nitpick? The line is self-defeating. Also, why would only a Sith deal in absolutes? Jedi deal in absolutes all the time. Fear, anger and hate are all inherently bad emotions because they lead to the dark side, which is inherently bad as well. | ||
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