This review sums up a lot of my opinions on "Prometheus", even though it is about "Star Trek (2009)".
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/star-trek-09/
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KvltMan
Sweden1609 Posts
This review sums up a lot of my opinions on "Prometheus", even though it is about "Star Trek (2009)". http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/star-trek-09/ | ||
FireBlast!
United Kingdom5251 Posts
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Makra
Australia50 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I'm not very well versed in DNA so this may be worded incorrectly, but here's what I saw: The lone engineer is on Earth, in prehistoric times. He looks up and sees his fellow engineers leaving the planet in their ship. He then drinks that strange stuff, which appears to break down/disintegrate his DNA. As his body breaks down, a strand of DNA which touches the water has some sort of reaction which appears to stop the disintegration process, and then repairs the strand, forming the basis of human life. And this is my analysis of that scene: The way the scene showed the engineers body breaking down made it look like his DNA would have completely disintegrated if it weren't for the reaction with water. I believe he was left behind for whatever reason (I suspect perhaps he was outcast) and he was simply trying to kill himself, rather than purposefully create the human race. It just does not make sense that an effort to create a new form of life would involve a sole engineer destroying himself as he watches his peers fly off. Wouldn't the leadership of the engineers want to oversee the beginning of the process? Instead, he did not know that a reaction would occur with the water, and rather than just killing himself, he accidently created the human race. That may explain why the engineers wanted to destroy us. Maybe they considered our race an inferior version of them and therefore an abomination? Maybe they were worried we might be dangerous one day and planned a pre-emptive strike? Personally, I think there is much more to this film than meets the eye. I'm really hoping for a sequel because I just want more. | ||
Belisarius
Australia6214 Posts
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Avean
Norway449 Posts
I for one was looking for any sign of sequel right away and thank god he is planning that but hopes it comes fast. | ||
RowdierBob
Australia12800 Posts
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sonobeno
United Kingdom66 Posts
Things like: Developed Characters with personality and motives. Good dialogue in connection with that. Plot points with logical connection between them. Prometheus has none of this. Its a mess. The characters are idiots (the guy mapping gets lost, biologist does not understand basic threatening animal behaviour, scientists removing their helmets.. etc.) I do not mind its trying to asks big questions like 'how did life start on earth' without properly explaining them, I mind it being a bad film. | ||
Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On June 08 2012 23:06 Avean wrote: I loved the movie also and i think why some are very angry and calling it bad cause the movie leaves more questions than answers. Movie deals with the most popular questions humanity wants answers for, and the movie is trying to get that answer but you get only a glimpse of the truth. So after the movie ends you really want to know more. I for one was looking for any sign of sequel right away and thank god he is planning that but hopes it comes fast. The film certainly left me with more questions than answers, but that's by no means a bad thing. The problem is that my questions are things like: - Why did the plot make no sense - Why did that guy not tell anyone he had FREAKING ALIENS COMING OUT OF HIS EYES - Why did so many characters continuously make incredibly stupid decisions, despite being handpicked for a multi-billion dollar expedition (see above) etc. EDIT: sonobeno said it better than me. | ||
Ramble
Sweden877 Posts
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YourOldBuddy
Iceland94 Posts
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topherthetoad
China130 Posts
Favorite theme of the movie was the twisted mentality that "we all want to kill our parents" Each "engineer" is fucked over by their "creation." Noomi's character tries to deny this instinct, physically telling David she never felt this way, but she ends up conforming to it just as readily as the others. For example: our creations, the synthetic beings/androids embodied as David attempts to sabotage/infect the humans. Noomi's character becomes pregnant and carries an infected fetus of a Xenomorph. The Xenomorph eventually goes on to kill and infect the Engineers as well as the captain and crew attempting to destroy the alien ship. And it comes full circle with the Engineers trying to kill us. Everyone trying to screw everyone over. The black goo is pretty interesting as well in that it alters each hosts DNA in a different way. The worms, Fifield, Holloway, Engineers, etc. Raises the question why would the Engineers create this stuff and for what purpose? The Captains conclusion of the whole area being the factory for weapons of mass destruction is the only one that I remember at the moment. | ||
Oliwoli
United Kingdom69 Posts
I feel like the film didn't explain David's motivations at all, beyond the conversation we hear his side of with Weyland.He clearly has more information than the viewer but how he gained that knowledge is incredibly unclear. For example he knows exactly how to get to the bridge, learns engineerspeak (just because he broke down a lot of languages doesn't in any way indicate that he could put them back together in a specific order - I can buy that he could comprehend their language, but being able to formulate new sentences makes no sense) and is even familiar with the fact that what appears to be writing is in fact a computer terminal (in the scene when he starts the first holographic thing). If Weyland has more information than a map from cave paintings then the leading male and female had no actual contribution to the team, and if Weyland did not then David acts in incedibly inconsistent ways. Additionally, randomly testing weapons on members of your team, really? There are 17 people on board the ship, presumably every one of them plays an important part - the mission cost a trillion dollars, cutting down expenses must have been a priority. If David can be sure that randomly infecting him will not impact the mission at all then why was he there in the first place? Also,for all their skill at genetic engineering, the engineers have designed the WORST biological weapon on the face of the planet. Have a think about the actual process that needs to occur at every stage. First someone has to ingest black goo, not particularly likely, they then have to have sex with someone else who then cant notice it for an extended period of time, at which point it is born, grows and then needs to attach to someone else who then has the final stage implanted in them. Their biological weapon with which they are hoping to destroy earth needs no less than 3 separate people to make incredibly stupid decisions. Admittedly, the zombies are probably pretty useful (if entirely unnecessary to the plot) but why not do that instead of engineering a new animal with an incredibly complex life cycle that isn't even a particularly good weapon? Furthermore, the role that the engineers initially played is unclear and not in a mysterious way. People have commented that the guy at the start needed to kill himself to start life on earth, this CANNOT be the case, for several reasons. Firstly humans and engineers have similar DNA, that's unlikely to be chance because in this model of the plot, evolution still occurred. Secondly, in order for cave paintings to exist mapping a star system that is invisible to the naked eye the engineers would have had to be present with humans in their civilisation and more importantly they must have done so recently. One of the pictures is mentioned as being Babylonian - a city that is only a few thousand years old. It can also be seen that another sample is Hittite - a culture who date from around the 18th century BC (Tangentally, the line "they had no contact with each other" is evidently false as the Hittite and Babylonian empires fought wars). That the oldest painting was 35000 years old, and others date to about 1800BC implies that the engineers had extended contact with humans. I'd argue that that can be explained as "Ridley Scott needs to read a history book" rather than "there were engineers on Earth for 33 thousand years" , but regardless the Engineers played more of a part than simply seeding life. To continue, I find the film/s treatment of female characters questionable. The two major female characters of Vickers and Shaw play up madonna/whore stereotypes to a T. This is particularly irksome in that they both have a sex scene at the same time. Vickers - cast as the villain - has casual sex with a black guy (the fact that it is the villain who Ridley Scott decides engages in that kind of sexual behaviour is at issue, not the acts themselves), while Shaw - the heroine - has sex as a means to calm her down (she was angry about babies at the time, to make things even worse) and then later gets pregnant because of it. Sex in this film is either transgressive or for procreation. The film gives us no insight into the thought processes of the engineers, this is done intentionally but leaves me emotionally disconnected from the film, and makes it harder to overlook plot holes. For example, the ship is undoubtably a military vessel and it is implied that the whole area is a military base of some kind, we can assume that the people who were worshipped as gods by several different cultures were at the very least not the same people as in the base - it seems reasonable to assume that they were probably not military personel in any sense. Given that, why would they give directions to a military base that was in no way connected to their culture as a whole? If I met aliens, I would direct them to the White house, not the Pentagon. The earlier sections of the film only hold together if you assume the engineers want us to come visit and without that much of the film seems to collapse. It IS a very pretty film though.... Also @Shawty, people have gotten taller and look different because of dietary and lifestyle differences, you could take a caveman and raise him as a modern child and he would appear exactly the same as his classmates. Any differences there ARE between him and other kids would be genetic, which kinda undermines your point. That said, the film only says that the DNA matches, not that its an 100% match, so overall I agree with you that looking a bit differences isn't a reasonable critique. | ||
ETisME
12276 Posts
On June 08 2012 22:32 Makra wrote: Hmm, so far I haven't seen anyone write exactly what I think regarding the opening scene. I think everyone might be misunderstanding it. + Show Spoiler + I'm not very well versed in DNA so this may be worded incorrectly, but here's what I saw: The lone engineer is on Earth, in prehistoric times. He looks up and sees his fellow engineers leaving the planet in their ship. He then drinks that strange stuff, which appears to break down/disintegrate his DNA. As his body breaks down, a strand of DNA which touches the water has some sort of reaction which appears to stop the disintegration process, and then repairs the strand, forming the basis of human life. And this is my analysis of that scene: The way the scene showed the engineers body breaking down made it look like his DNA would have completely disintegrated if it weren't for the reaction with water. I believe he was left behind for whatever reason (I suspect perhaps he was outcast) and he was simply trying to kill himself, rather than purposefully create the human race. It just does not make sense that an effort to create a new form of life would involve a sole engineer destroying himself as he watches his peers fly off. Wouldn't the leadership of the engineers want to oversee the beginning of the process? Instead, he did not know that a reaction would occur with the water, and rather than just killing himself, he accidently created the human race. That may explain why the engineers wanted to destroy us. Maybe they considered our race an inferior version of them and therefore an abomination? Maybe they were worried we might be dangerous one day and planned a pre-emptive strike? Personally, I think there is much more to this film than meets the eye. I'm really hoping for a sequel because I just want more. that's how I felt as well. That outcast looked abandoned there to die and the black goo was offered to him to use and surely he knows what it does. | ||
InDaHouse
Sweden956 Posts
On June 08 2012 04:35 Quotidian wrote: Show nested quote + On June 08 2012 01:21 InDaHouse wrote: I thought it was really fucking good. Some theorycrafting: + Show Spoiler + So now we know that the Engineers created Mankind, but where does that put the Predators in this universe? Are the Predators a separate species with almost the same advanced technology as the Engineers or are they also created by them? The conclusion from all the Predator and AVP movies are that the Xenomorph is the ultimate prey for the Predators and they have the ability to control the Alien species (hatching process). But we also now know from Prometheus that the first "facehuggerversion" and then later the first level of Xenomorph popped out from a Engineer. So does the Predators co-exist during this timeline? And I also don't understand the Engineers "biowarfareships", did they only create this process of evolution with all facehugger---->infest a specie---->evolve----->pop out as somekind of Xenomorph, with the intention of destroying planets (like Earth) with lifeforms that they wanted to wipe out as fast and efficient as possible? What is the point of creating Humans with same DNA as the Engineers and then destroy them all with some advanced biowarfare evolution that is even dangerous for the Engineers themselves? Edit: Spelling. it's a somewhat vague prequel to Ridley Scott's Alien with several big, intentional holes between it and the first Alien film.. it doesn't even care about the morphology of xenomorphs in Aliens (as in, as far as Prometheus/Scott is concerned, the Alien Queen doesn't exist) let alone any kind of tangential connection with Predator.. asking "what does this mean for predator" is absolutely the wrong question to ask because it's completely irrelevant Yeah, when I thought about it you are completely correct. I just thought there would be some connections with the Predators from the comics. But yes kind of irrelevant question. Did anyone also notice that Prometheus land on planet LV-223 and the first Alien movie takes place on planet LV-426. Some hidden intention by Ridley Scott? | ||
Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On June 08 2012 19:42 PH wrote: Show nested quote + On June 08 2012 19:10 teapot wrote: I like how defenders of the film dismiss the "obvious faults" while go on to wax philosopical about things that aren't there. "Yes, I know this food is made of cardboard, duh, but can't you see the chef is examining the pre-existing relationionship of contemporay cuisine to the origin of dining relations throught human civilization. The interplay betwwen the painted orange carrots savoyard and the reds of the tomatoes is simply delightful." Nothing is examined in this film. It piddles around in the shallow-end of pseudo-science. Raising a lot of unawserable questions. Not interesting speculations. Just anawnserable questions that are not well explored. I'm quite happy with ambiguity in films, but it has to be the right sort. If something plainly does not make any sense whatsoever. That is not good. This, combined with the bad editing, bad dialogue, bad pacing, are what make it bad. Some more examples from the long list. this time focusing on the instant resolution of plot points. Maybe their intended target audience has low retention? So better resolve they plot points ASAP before the film gets any more confusing? + Show Spoiler + Noomi is revelaed to be infirtile >blink> Noomi is pregnant >blink> Noomi has cesarean to remove a massive squid >blink> all back to normal Weyland is still alive! >blink> Weyland is dead! Vickers is Weyland's daughter! >blink> Vickers is dead! The aliens are going to invade Earth! >blink> Captain spontaneously suicides the remaining crew into alien vessel. Noomi is religious >blink> oh wait, nothing comes of this because she does not do anything remotely religious for the rest of the film. and so on. Then you got the basic structure of the film... + Show Spoiler + ... which is just the Alien blueprint. LOL. Ridley Scott waited 30 years to tell an identical story, except now with more fruitcake. People find [distress signal/cave painting] - People land on [LV426/LV233] - People find [Derelict Spaceship/Derelict Spaceship] - Crewman gets attacked by [facehugger/vagina snake] - Remaining crew get [picked off one-by-one/picked off one-by-one] - The whole expedtion is cynically revealed to be a setup by [The Company/Weyland] with the help of their android [Ash/David]. Blah blah blah. Same thing all over again, except Lindlehoff has now force-fed a bunch of half-baked ideas into it. And the crew also now have amazing hair-cuts Then you the film trying to recreate the same crew dynamic as the 1979 film, except it made sense in that film, because they were behaving like blue collar workers because that's what they were. They were a bunch of regualr-joes on an industrial mission. This time they are all hand-picked experts on a top-secret mission, known to them as possibly the most important mission in human history, yet they behave in exactly the same manner. Aliens did a much better job of doing something similar, excpet with a refreshing new attitude of the colonial marines replacing the blue-collars. Alien = unprepared, Aliens = prepared, yet still all hell breaks loose. Also some of the ideas in his film, deliberatly? subvert a couple of things from Alien. I don't know if it is deliberate, a mistake, or that Scott just feels differently about things now: + Show Spoiler + In Alien, the heroine, Ripley refuses to break quarantine and allow Kane back on board the ship with the alien parasite attached to his face and endangering the lives of the entire crew. = hero In Prometheus, the ice-queen?, Vickers refuses to break quarantine and allow the overtly infected Holloway back on board the ship and endagnering the lives of the entire crew. = bitch? Vickers is not treated as a hero at all, maybe because she actually succeded in not allowing the danger onboard that no one is aware of what the consequences would have been. Then she just gets squashed at the end, whilst selfhishly trying to escape as the brave Captain and the rest of the crew go full throttle into the enemy spaceship. I have many other issues beyond these. Though I'm starting to think that to mention all of them would just be to type out the _entire_ film with commentary about every goddamn issue with why its bad on so many levels. Belive me I have a lot more problems with it than these. You know, despite all that, Prometheus was still an amazingly fun film for me. I was riveted the entire time, and I'm really hoping that it helps kickstart a new wave of quality scifi from Hollywood. It has its weaknesses in narrative (which is where nearly every problem you pointed out comes from), but it still all ties together into a massively entertaining and overall well-constructed movie. Bingo! Why does it confound certain people that a dumb popcorn movie with a cool premise and great visuals can be entertaining? A lot of people were entertained by Avengers or Avatar too, and those movies are dumb as dirt. On June 08 2012 22:12 KvltMan wrote: I really enjoyed the movie, but comparing it to the "Alien" movies of "old" isn't really what it's about, in all honesty. I found it to be a lot like the new "Star Trek" movie that shat on a lot of knowledge that was established in the earlier "Star Trek" movies and shows. For a prequel that's been made solely for money I must say that "Prometheus", just like "Star Trek" were as good as they could've been. This review sums up a lot of my opinions on "Prometheus", even though it is about "Star Trek (2009)". http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/star-trek-09/ good point, and professional reviewers have pointed this out as well. It has more in common with Contact or Star Trek then it does with Alien. Which of course explains why people expecting anything close to Alien get confused/upset On June 08 2012 22:32 Makra wrote: Hmm, so far I haven't seen anyone write exactly what I think regarding the opening scene. I think everyone might be misunderstanding it. + Show Spoiler + I'm not very well versed in DNA so this may be worded incorrectly, but here's what I saw: The lone engineer is on Earth, in prehistoric times. He looks up and sees his fellow engineers leaving the planet in their ship. He then drinks that strange stuff, which appears to break down/disintegrate his DNA. As his body breaks down, a strand of DNA which touches the water has some sort of reaction which appears to stop the disintegration process, and then repairs the strand, forming the basis of human life. And this is my analysis of that scene: The way the scene showed the engineers body breaking down made it look like his DNA would have completely disintegrated if it weren't for the reaction with water. I believe he was left behind for whatever reason (I suspect perhaps he was outcast) and he was simply trying to kill himself, rather than purposefully create the human race. It just does not make sense that an effort to create a new form of life would involve a sole engineer destroying himself as he watches his peers fly off. Wouldn't the leadership of the engineers want to oversee the beginning of the process? Instead, he did not know that a reaction would occur with the water, and rather than just killing himself, he accidently created the human race. That may explain why the engineers wanted to destroy us. Maybe they considered our race an inferior version of them and therefore an abomination? Maybe they were worried we might be dangerous one day and planned a pre-emptive strike? Personally, I think there is much more to this film than meets the eye. I'm really hoping for a sequel because I just want more. + Show Spoiler + I don't think he was an outcast. I think he was there specifically to sacrifice himself and to seed the planet with engineer DNA. Ridley Scott has been talking a bunch about human sacrifice in various human cultures, and drawn parallels to that scene. There's also a lot of hieroglyphic elements in the engineer architecture, which also references Egyptian/pre-colonization South American architecture - cultures that engaged in human sacrifice | ||
Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On June 09 2012 01:03 InDaHouse wrote: Show nested quote + On June 08 2012 04:35 Quotidian wrote: On June 08 2012 01:21 InDaHouse wrote: I thought it was really fucking good. Some theorycrafting: + Show Spoiler + So now we know that the Engineers created Mankind, but where does that put the Predators in this universe? Are the Predators a separate species with almost the same advanced technology as the Engineers or are they also created by them? The conclusion from all the Predator and AVP movies are that the Xenomorph is the ultimate prey for the Predators and they have the ability to control the Alien species (hatching process). But we also now know from Prometheus that the first "facehuggerversion" and then later the first level of Xenomorph popped out from a Engineer. So does the Predators co-exist during this timeline? And I also don't understand the Engineers "biowarfareships", did they only create this process of evolution with all facehugger---->infest a specie---->evolve----->pop out as somekind of Xenomorph, with the intention of destroying planets (like Earth) with lifeforms that they wanted to wipe out as fast and efficient as possible? What is the point of creating Humans with same DNA as the Engineers and then destroy them all with some advanced biowarfare evolution that is even dangerous for the Engineers themselves? Edit: Spelling. it's a somewhat vague prequel to Ridley Scott's Alien with several big, intentional holes between it and the first Alien film.. it doesn't even care about the morphology of xenomorphs in Aliens (as in, as far as Prometheus/Scott is concerned, the Alien Queen doesn't exist) let alone any kind of tangential connection with Predator.. asking "what does this mean for predator" is absolutely the wrong question to ask because it's completely irrelevant Yeah, when I thought about it you are completely correct. I just thought there would be some connections with the Predators from the comics. But yes kind of irrelevant question. Did anyone also notice that Prometheus land on planet LV-223 and the first Alien movie takes place on planet LV-426. Some hidden intention by Ridley Scott? Wouldnt call it a hidden intention really, its just not the same planet, and its set about 60 years before Alien, plenty of time for the events leading up to Alien | ||
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Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
I enjoyed the characters, the plot, and everything else. Wish it was longer. | ||
kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
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Hairy
United Kingdom1169 Posts
On June 09 2012 02:41 Quotidian wrote: Bingo! Why does it confound certain people that a dumb popcorn movie with a cool premise and great visuals can be entertaining? A lot of people were entertained by Avengers or Avatar too, and those movies are dumb as dirt. Believe me, I have nothing against dumb popcorn movies - they definitely have a time and a place. I'll watch a Die Hard any day! The reason I disliked Prometheus is that its story was muddled and confused, the characters continuously made horrendously dumb decisions and did things out of character, and I just generally found it to be a bit pants. I made quite a lengthy post earlier about some of the niggles, but the niggles were so widespread that it just overcomes the movie, for me. On June 09 2012 03:04 Xxio wrote: It's a great movie. Very, very good science fiction. I think some of the people finding so-called plot holes should watch Prometheus for a second time. I enjoyed the characters, the plot, and everything else. Wish it was longer. I really cannot believe that we watched the same film. I think I'm going to abandon my incredulity, and the thread, because I've made my opinion quite clear already, and there's no need to argue the point. But seriously, folks, if you have ALIENS COMING OUT OF YOUR EYES freaking tell someone. Please. | ||
Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On June 09 2012 03:40 Hairy wrote: Show nested quote + On June 09 2012 02:41 Quotidian wrote: Bingo! Why does it confound certain people that a dumb popcorn movie with a cool premise and great visuals can be entertaining? A lot of people were entertained by Avengers or Avatar too, and those movies are dumb as dirt. Believe me, I have nothing against dumb popcorn movies - they definitely have a time and a place. I'll watch a Die Hard any day! The reason I disliked Prometheus is that its story was muddled and confused, the characters continuously made horrendously dumb decisions and did things out of character, and I just generally found it to be a bit pants. I made quite a lengthy post earlier about some of the niggles, but the niggles were so widespread that it just overcomes the movie, for me. your loss then. I'm guessing you feel that way about a lot of big Hollywood movies as well? | ||
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