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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
To me this episode pretty much confirmed R+L=J even further...
Rule number one of TV is that before introducing a plot line or whatever, you have to remind the setting to the viewer. Thats why there is a "previously on game of thrones" where they sometime go way back in time just to reintroduce a character that hasn't been on in a while. GoT has been very good at doing this so far. It helps the viewer a lot in complex story line.
Now first let's take last episode. We have a scene where Stannis claims he does not believe Jon's mother is some random whore, because it isn't Ned's style. Everyone agrees on this. Now this scene in itself isn't very damning, it could be random. But considering the next two points :
We have a scene where the show reintroduces Lyanna Stark to the viewer ? Why ? They never talked about her. Only in the first episodes was she relevant because they introduced the setting of the Rebellion to the viewer, very broadly. Why talk about her now, especially make her the focus of a 2 minutes long conversation, the only screen time Sansa and Littlefinger had. Then link it to Rhaegar where they just remind the viewer of "how it went down. Rhaegar is a monster, kidnapped Lyanna Stark and raped her.
And then finally, we have a second scene about Rhaegar when Barristan speaks to Dany. I mean the writer sure have some weird obsession over a Rhaegar that was dead before the show started to have four differents characters talk about him almost exclusively in their only appearence in the episode no ? In the Selmy-Dany scene, Selmy describes Rhaegar as a non violent person that liked to sing and was very generous... right after the Sansa-Baelish scene where they pretty much say he's a rapist.
Hum.... It seems something is amis with Rhaegar now doesn't it ! Why suddently start talking so much about Rhaegar and Lyanna, when they went unmentionned for the last 4 seasons unless it's to remind the viewer of their characters, before the reveal of a new plot element ?
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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Paranoia isn't healthy. Plus a lucky guess would imply the guess is correct.
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The problem with the Unsullied scene is the fact that they die to a bunch of guys with knives. If we assume that some of them are gladiators, then why not some exotic weapons? Why not have the Unsullied try to phalanx, but get broken by some odd attacks... a firebreather or firebombs or throwing weapons or any sort of longer ranged weapon than a short spear? That seems like it would be both cool and set up the gladiators in the future. Not to mention that if any of the unsullied die to fire, it would be a direct shot back at Daenerys as the mother of dragons.
As the scene is played out with knife-wielders, I would expect the Unsullied, the most disciplined fighters (but not the best 1v1 fighters), to form up in a narrow passage or against the wall. Then they would use their ranged advantage to slice up anyone with a knife who comes near. It should be a massacre in favor of the Unsullied. However, if you throw some odd weapons into the mix, you can force the unsullied to break their formation and then get surrounded and stabbed by a mob with knifes. Instead, they broke formation on their own and lost badly.
As for Barristan, there were options that could have really made his death a better one. One simple option is to directly contrast it to Jaimie. Have Barristan be ambushed with his good arm getting stabbed and unusable before he can even draw his sword. Then have him try to draw with the right arm, be unable to lift it and then switch to the left arm and still put up a good fight. Then if he loses to a bunch of guys with knives, it doesn't seem so bad. He still surpassed what Jaimie has been able to do and Jaimie was supposed to be one of the best of the next generation of fighters before he lost his hand.
Another option would be to have Barristan go out against a named character. Introduce some of the gladiators earlier in this season, especially a ruthless asshole who's a champion of the fighting pits, and have him deliver the finishing blow as part of a mob. That way, Barristan dies, but he goes out to a fighting champion with all the advantages. This serves to further introduce the pit fighters and also gives a very cathartic scene when one of Daenerys's dragons bites his head off. Yeah, it's a little TV-ish convenient, but they've removed a large part of the complexity of the books, so you might as well get the feels.
I just think it would have been a lot more satisfying if Barristan would have gone out against a named character or in special circumstances, rather than to a bunch of shmucks with knives.
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I was curious about upcoming episodes and checked the imdb page.
+ Show Spoiler +Not much action in King's Landing. Here are the last character appearances by episode (assuming credits are complete):
Episode 4: "Sons of the Harpy"
Lancel
Littlefinger
Loras
High Sparrow
Pycelle
Qyburn
Tommen
Episode 6: "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken"
Margaery
Episode 8: "Hardhome"
Cersei
But the credits raise more questions in other locations.
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That guess is half correct at best. Only UnGregor is a "zombie". As far as we know, Sandor is either dead or the Gravedigger.
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Please be discreet if you want to call people out in the other thread. Before reading books I guessed (didn't expect, but thought it's possible) that Littlefinger will kill Lysa Arryn and seduce Sansa (or something like that, I don't remember details) and some guy made a mess there, making it obvious for everyone that my guess was more or less correct.
In other words, don't post spoilers to prove that someone is a book reader. You'll only make it worse.
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Germany25658 Posts
I always enjoy it when this thread turns into "ARE THEY SPOILING SOMETHING FROM THE BOOKS" police
Maybe you should just report posts that you think are spoilers and move on 
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Prediction:
GRRM is starting to realize that the TV show is much more coherent in wrapping up the story and loses motivation to go through the effort of writing TWOW. He silently cancels the whole series but tells everyone he is still writing, while in fact he is spending all his money on wine and whores.
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On May 06 2015 01:34 SpiZe wrote:
To me this episode pretty much confirmed R+L=J even further...
Rule number one of TV is that before introducing a plot line or whatever, you have to remind the setting to the viewer. Thats why there is a "previously on game of thrones" where they sometime go way back in time just to reintroduce a character that hasn't been on in a while. GoT has been very good at doing this so far. It helps the viewer a lot in complex story line.
Now first let's take last episode. We have a scene where Stannis claims he does not believe Jon's mother is some random whore, because it isn't Ned's style. Everyone agrees on this. Now this scene in itself isn't very damning, it could be random. But considering the next two points :
We have a scene where the show reintroduces Lyanna Stark to the viewer ? Why ? They never talked about her. Only in the first episodes was she relevant because they introduced the setting of the Rebellion to the viewer, very broadly. Why talk about her now, especially make her the focus of a 2 minutes long conversation, the only screen time Sansa and Littlefinger had. Then link it to Rhaegar where they just remind the viewer of "how it went down. Rhaegar is a monster, kidnapped Lyanna Stark and raped her.
And then finally, we have a second scene about Rhaegar when Barristan speaks to Dany. I mean the writer sure have some weird obsession over a Rhaegar that was dead before the show started to have four differents characters talk about him almost exclusively in their only appearence in the episode no ? In the Selmy-Dany scene, Selmy describes Rhaegar as a non violent person that liked to sing and was very generous... right after the Sansa-Baelish scene where they pretty much say he's a rapist.
Hum.... It seems something is amis with Rhaegar now doesn't it ! Why suddently start talking so much about Rhaegar and Lyanna, when they went unmentionned for the last 4 seasons unless it's to remind the viewer of their characters, before the reveal of a new plot element ?
Beyond which, Littlefinger, with his facial expressions when Sansa recounted the official story, heavily hinted that Lyanna wasn't really raped.
There are some very savvy TV viewers, and I wouldn't be surprised if people figure out what R+L=J means. All the hints in the episode are there for TV viewers to draw the connections: Barristan's story of how gentle Rhaegar was leads them to further question, Littlefinger's recounting of the tournament of Harrenhal, Stannis' doubts about Jon's parentage, etc.
The Robert+Lyanna=Jon theory won't last, once some TV viewers examine it further. It just doesn't make sense and falls apart on scrutiny.
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On May 06 2015 03:48 KadaverBB wrote:I always enjoy it when this thread turns into "ARE THEY SPOILING SOMETHING FROM THE BOOKS" police Maybe you should just report posts that you think are spoilers and move on
most of the time it's not paranoia though, no matter how many people get banned for this shit, a couple weeks later others pop up trying the same shit, thinking they figured out how to look cool and fool others.
Once had a lengthy PM back and forth with one of these, who tried really hard to convince me he's just very attentive, so much so he word-to-word wrote a book phrase once about Jon in the other thread, which wasnt in the show... yeah...
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You have to be pretty thick not to realise the mountain being turned into a zombie-like thing, though (dead + moving = zombie/undead, it's one of the most well known tropes in existence). Which makes it more or less established as fact, as far as have been hinted at. The zombie vs. zombie comment then is a very short humourous leap to make.
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On May 06 2015 04:00 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2015 01:34 SpiZe wrote:
To me this episode pretty much confirmed R+L=J even further...
Rule number one of TV is that before introducing a plot line or whatever, you have to remind the setting to the viewer. Thats why there is a "previously on game of thrones" where they sometime go way back in time just to reintroduce a character that hasn't been on in a while. GoT has been very good at doing this so far. It helps the viewer a lot in complex story line.
Now first let's take last episode. We have a scene where Stannis claims he does not believe Jon's mother is some random whore, because it isn't Ned's style. Everyone agrees on this. Now this scene in itself isn't very damning, it could be random. But considering the next two points :
We have a scene where the show reintroduces Lyanna Stark to the viewer ? Why ? They never talked about her. Only in the first episodes was she relevant because they introduced the setting of the Rebellion to the viewer, very broadly. Why talk about her now, especially make her the focus of a 2 minutes long conversation, the only screen time Sansa and Littlefinger had. Then link it to Rhaegar where they just remind the viewer of "how it went down. Rhaegar is a monster, kidnapped Lyanna Stark and raped her.
And then finally, we have a second scene about Rhaegar when Barristan speaks to Dany. I mean the writer sure have some weird obsession over a Rhaegar that was dead before the show started to have four differents characters talk about him almost exclusively in their only appearence in the episode no ? In the Selmy-Dany scene, Selmy describes Rhaegar as a non violent person that liked to sing and was very generous... right after the Sansa-Baelish scene where they pretty much say he's a rapist.
Hum.... It seems something is amis with Rhaegar now doesn't it ! Why suddently start talking so much about Rhaegar and Lyanna, when they went unmentionned for the last 4 seasons unless it's to remind the viewer of their characters, before the reveal of a new plot element ? Beyond which, Littlefinger, with his facial expressions when Sansa recounted the official story, heavily hinted that Lyanna wasn't really raped. There are some very savvy TV viewers, and I wouldn't be surprised if people figure out what R+L=J means. All the hints in the episode are there for TV viewers to draw the connections: Barristan's story of how gentle Rhaegar was leads them to further question, Littlefinger's recounting of the tournament of Harrenhal, Stannis' doubts about Jon's parentage, etc. The Robert+Lyanna=Jon theory won't last, once some TV viewers examine it further. It just doesn't make sense and falls apart on scrutiny.
I agree, as soon they'll drop another hint, no matter how subtle, people will find out. It's just the book readers in the other thread basically confirming those rumors or drawing attention to it is what's annoying me. Let people figure out stuff for themselves, dammit.
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It only makes sense that Jon's dad is Rhaegar. The reason why Ned claimed to cheated on Cat rather than giving up a family member is because when you usurp a throne, you usually kill the previous family line to prevent any uprisings. Jon would've been killed as a baby if people found out he was a Targaryen and possibly would tarnish the Stark family name forever.
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Only thing I didnt like about the last episode was that a bunch of rich dudes/aristocrats with knives kicked the shit out of unsullied.
I mean even outnumbered 2:1 a fully armed and armored group of professional soldiers would dispatch a bunch of knife wielding aristocrats with minimal losses. I mean honestly, they had spears/sheilds pointed at guys with knives, it would have been a massacre.
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its likely the masters enlisted former pit fighters. as the slave advisor guy who got chopped said, the masters are too afraid/untrained to do their own killing.
regardless, the fight scene was very amateurish. and barristan being there..."hey dany i know we're at war with faceless enemies who live amongst us but i think i'm gonna go for a stroll in this foreign city full of people who hate me" lol ok barry
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On May 06 2015 12:08 l3loodraven wrote:
its likely the masters enlisted former pit fighters. as the slave advisor guy who got chopped said, the masters are too afraid/untrained to do their own killing.
regardless, the fight scene was very amateurish. and barristan being there..."hey dany i know we're at war with faceless enemies who live amongst us but i think i'm gonna go for a stroll in this foreign city full of people who hate me" lol ok barry
That's very unfair. Prior to this point the most daring moves the Sons of the Harpy pulled off was the murder of a random unsullied that was half sleeping in a brothel, while their was no one close. There is no reason to believe that they would have attacked Barristan in broad daylight, while he was armed in the middle of the city.
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I hope they give that whore some lines, add another strong female to the roster. Using her womanly ways to play the game.
On a side note, just started reading the books, and is catelyn ever a miserable cunt. Im glad she dies.
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On May 08 2015 01:13 Wolfstan wrote:
I hope they give that whore some lines, add another strong female to the roster. Using her womanly ways to play the game.
On a side note, just started reading the books, and is catelyn ever a miserable cunt. Im glad she dies.
Just you wait.
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Video of D&D discussing Barristan's death
I don't know if they're being petty or messing around, but that bit angers me. I think Barristan still had a role to play, and the actor cared enough to argue his point and use legitimate book material to back up his claim. That seems like a total waste, and a death added just for shock value.
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EPT
