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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
Wow, I didn't watch yesterday's episode, and now I think I might not at all. I'll have to go straight "unsullied" from the book perspective. I can understand spoilers as the show overtakes the books, but that is kind of fucked up.
Also, the whole "white walkers used to be human babies" thing kind of makes them, again, seem less formidable than they were in the books. I guess I need clarification on the relationship, though, but if white walkers need humans to persist that makes them way less of a threat in my mind. I guess it all hinges on if they can somehow reproduce without human babies. If they can, then I guess it's just a "oh, white walkers convert humans, how evil" sort of thing (but who really cares, I mean is being a white walker necessarily any worse than being a human, in that case?), but it doesn't really affect how I perceive them. But if they actually need humans to reproduce (ie are just a transformed type of human, and are essentially parasites on the greater human population like lame ice vampires or something), then their threat is very much reduced.
To me, the concept of the unique threat of the Others was one of extermination. If the Others won and overwhelmed humanity, that was it for human beings (and children of the forest and other living things, too). You get the impression from the books that during the Long Winter, humanity came close to being extinguished completely. However, if the Others would just be another type of ruling class over humans that just kidnaps some of their babies to perpetuate more Others (i.e. if that's the only way new "Others" can be made), they just seem.....diminished. I mean, there's nothing really unique about an evil ruling class in Game of Thrones, other than the "we are magikal" sort of theme to them. Most of the humans in Westeros are already in a relationship that's not functionally much worse with regular human overlords who essentially own them as chattel. It just becomes a matter of exchanging one set of overlords for a "marginally" worse group that is somehow "magic", kidnaps babies, and are considered "evil", for whatever reason.
It kind of fucks up their dynamic a little bit in my mind :/
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On April 29 2014 21:39 fabiano wrote:
I really think it is an absurd to have the series spoil the books. No offense to those who preffer the TV show, but to me the books are much deeper and much more enjoyable, since nothing is rushed, we get more details and inside each characters head.
Now I'm not sure if I should keep watching or if I just wait yet another year for the release of the book. Even not watching the show the chances I'm going to get spoiled by the Internet, be it on 9gag or some random dude joke on some random blog/site/forum post/comics is so high that one might become paranoid.
I've never spoiled the show to anyone anywhere, even refused to hint anything to my friends who came over asking stuff... I feel kind of betrayed now. I know that in the last episode the spoiler was minimal, as many said it was hinted in the books, but this opens a precedent for future events, and the longer the show goes, the higher are the chances we will get major spoilers that might ruin the book series...
What do I do
Relax? If you respect the TV medium so little that receiving new plot elements from the show instead of the book offends you deeply, then it sounds like you should stop watching. But navigating the internet like getting "spoiled" of future events of Game of Thrones will literally kill you is insane. If you want to, enjoy the show for what it is, the same story told in a different way, with diverging and converging paths, and if you can't enjoy it for that then don't watch.
I don't really understand people saying that the show has "spoilered" them now. This is the story, it's not a spoiler. Telling someone about the Red Wedding or Joffrey's Death in that other thread before it happens is a spoiler. The scene with the Night's King, to me, is just another example of something the show can pull off that the books cannot, except maybe in a prologue...showing the story from the perspective of characters we don't see in the books. This is kind of nice, and there was nothing revolutionary in that scene that book-readers hadn't already hypothesized about.
But the show was always going to outpace the books, so I'm not really sure what you expected...
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I for one enjoy this new intermix of the show and the book. Not knowing what they'll do in the show gives me more excitement.
Edit: In fact, I much prefer straight up book spoilers to "changes".
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I don't mind spoilers. I know that GRRM will do it better in the books regardless, so i still can enjoy the books.
I don't really expect the show to spoiler that much either, they just HAD TO show the others once again to keep it fresh, nothing more.
If anything this little scene gives enough new ideas so the following days/weeks should be fun for people that like to read crazy theories on forums :D
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so the major spoiler is a white walker, and people lose their minds?
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On April 29 2014 23:14 xuanzue wrote:
so the major spoiler is a white walker, and people lose their minds?
Yes, although it's more than just a "white walker," it confirms the existence of the Night King as some sort of Other monarch, and that the Others can reproduce via human offspring, two things that book readers may have suspected but didn't know for sure and it's the first time the show has revealed story elements that haven't been covered in the books. Every deviation up until now ended up at the same general conclusion, but it's difficult to know where this will go for book readers, and the show is supposed to be on Book 3.
I for one think it's awesome to see new stuff as long as GRRM continues to sign off on it.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VQ6sYeF.jpg)
13 Others
The Night's King was 13th commander of the Night's Watch
it is known
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On April 29 2014 23:54 TheFish7 wrote:13 Others The Night's King was 13th commander of the Night's Watch it is known
And you post this because? I'm sorry i don't really understand where you are going with this. I meant that whoever burried the cache of dragonglass(Benjen, only one around in those parts and alive) may have witnessed something similar as the conversion we saw since the rune seems to indicate it. I didn't mean Benjen was the Nights King...
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The show didn't even spoiler in it. The spoiler was in HBO synopsis where they called the Other that performed the transformation the "Night-King" which is a spoiler because it kills a lot of theory. The only thing the scene revealed to book readers was that the Other have a culture of sorts, rituals etc... so they are not simply evil beings that want to kill stuff and simply exist to kill stuff. We already knew Craster's boy were turned into Others if you were paying attention, it's not stated, but very much implied. There is a scene (in the books) where one of craster's wives refer to the Others as "the boy's brothers" so ... yeah. What else were they gonna do with the babies ? Don't keep yourselves from watching the show because of this, I don't think it will happen again.
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The last hero: "He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog and a dozen companions"
huh
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On April 29 2014 11:43 KwarK wrote:
Coldhands was theorised to be the Night King. Was once a member of the watch, is older than the old child of the forest, "your monster, Brandon Stark" and so forth.
There is also the theory that Bran has already witnessed the 'creation' of Coldhands:
The Tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpssed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.
Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.
"No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle around his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth...but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.
We know that there have been a number of Bran/Brandon Stark/Snows over the years. Coldhands wears a scarf so we don't know if his neck has been slashed or not. The wording in this passage is also very interesting, could it be that Bran is tasting the blood through the roots of the weirwood? Or is it that Brandon Stark, the man with his throat open, could taste his own blood? To me the question is who is the white-haired woman; she is using a Bronze sickle while it's noted that wildlings use bronze weapons and armor whereas other cultures use iron, steel, etc. and who is the bearded man? I think this passage is the crux to a number of happenings up north.
On April 29 2014 23:59 unkkz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 23:54 TheFish7 wrote:13 Others The Night's King was 13th commander of the Night's Watch it is known And you post this because? I'm sorry i don't really understand where you are going with this. I meant that whoever burried the cache of dragonglass(Benjen, only one around in those parts and alive) may have witnessed something similar as the conversion we saw since the rune seems to indicate it. I didn't mean Benjen was the Nights King...
I'm just saying that we definitely saw the Night's King there. And yes it does make sense that Benjen may have buried the dragonglass, and may still be alive.
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On April 30 2014 00:21 TheFish7 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 11:43 KwarK wrote:
Coldhands was theorised to be the Night King. Was once a member of the watch, is older than the old child of the forest, "your monster, Brandon Stark" and so forth. There is also the theory that Bran has already witnessed the 'creation' of Coldhands: Show nested quote +The Tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpssed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.
Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.
"No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle around his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man's feet drummed against the earth...but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood. We know that there have been a number of Bran/Brandon Stark/Snows over the years. Coldhands wears a scarf so we don't know if his neck has been slashed or not. The wording in this passage is also very interesting, could it be that Bran is tasting the blood through the roots of the weirwood? Or is it that Brandon Stark, the man with his throat open, could taste his own blood? To me the question is who is the white-haired woman; she is using a Bronze sickle while it's noted that wildlings use bronze weapons and armor whereas other cultures use iron, steel, etc. and who is the bearded man? I think this passage is the crux to a number of happenings up north. Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 23:59 unkkz wrote:On April 29 2014 23:54 TheFish7 wrote:13 Others The Night's King was 13th commander of the Night's Watch it is known And you post this because? I'm sorry i don't really understand where you are going with this. I meant that whoever burried the cache of dragonglass(Benjen, only one around in those parts and alive) may have witnessed something similar as the conversion we saw since the rune seems to indicate it. I didn't mean Benjen was the Nights King... I'm just saying that we definitely saw the Night's King there. And yes it does make sense that Benjen may have buried the dragonglass, and may still be alive.
I always assumed the white haired woman to be "the other woman" that the nights king was with. It feels like this is before the Targs came to westeros as well so i don't think it's a targaryen. White hair isn't exactly common in "not old" people.
The last hero passage also fits disturbingly well with the last image of the episode. Since he set out with 12 companions who all died and we ourselves never really know what happened to him(damn you Maester Luwin, don't interrupt old nan like that!) . Goddamnit i have suppressed my urges for the next book for a long time now, but when they show new content like this and i start to tinfoil i really start to urge for a new fix in the form of a book.
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On April 29 2014 20:12 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 19:39 Monsen wrote:
I know it wasn't spelled out in the books but to me the white walker scene was no surprise whatsoever. What else would be so important to the Others that they leave Craster alone for it? Human babies tasty snack? Maybe as some sacrifice? Or Craster has some king blood from way back and his babies blood was good for their magic.
Why should they accept such a sacrifice when they could just attack Craster and kill plenty more? It has to be more valuable to them than that.
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On April 29 2014 19:39 Monsen wrote:
I know it wasn't spelled out in the books but to me the white walker scene was no surprise whatsoever. What else would be so important to the Others that they leave Craster alone for it? Human babies tasty snack?
The Night's King was.
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On April 30 2014 01:38 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2014 20:12 -Archangel- wrote:On April 29 2014 19:39 Monsen wrote:
I know it wasn't spelled out in the books but to me the white walker scene was no surprise whatsoever. What else would be so important to the Others that they leave Craster alone for it? Human babies tasty snack? Maybe as some sacrifice? Or Craster has some king blood from way back and his babies blood was good for their magic. Why should they accept such a sacrifice when they could just attack Craster and kill plenty more? It has to be more valuable to them than that.
Maybe only from babies, they can create White Walkers, but after a certain age, if they kill them, can only create Wights I suppose?
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If the Night's King is an Other now then they can convert adults too.
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To even call this a spoiler might be completely wrong.. someone on reddit connected a few dots.
The others home: http://i.imgur.com/St7F5UZ.jpg full of aurora borealis.
From a Bran dream in AGOT:
"North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.
Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.
"Why?" Bran said, not understanding, falling, falling.
Because winter is coming.
Bran looked at the crow on his shoulder, and the crow looked back. It had three eyes, and the third eye was full of a terrible knowledge. Bran looked down. There was nothing below him now but snow and cold and death, a frozen wasteland where jagged blue-white spires of ice waited to embrace him. They flew up at him like spears. He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points. He was desperately afraid."
Bran pretty much dreamed of the baby, or some other baby. But that fits pretty damn well into last episode. The baby looks at the nights king, cries, gets turned, tears are hot and sorta burns him. GRRM plan all along?!
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On April 30 2014 03:31 CobaltBlu wrote:
If the Night's King is an Other now then they can convert adults too.
Or he chose to become Other...
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EPT
