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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
We can quote wiki statements all we want, "the ascension of Aegon III is a possible dynastic vindication of his mother's claim to the throne." from Aegon III's page. They are only as good as things someone can say on their own in this thread so long as it has backing.
Is it a negative to be female? That seems to be the case, even if for no reason other than the predominant Andal culture of central Westeros comprising so many of the people any claimant has to deal with. Between the result of the Dance and with a little bit of Dornish politics thrown in I'd hardly throw Dany out on account of it though. Is it a negative to be a younger child opposing your elder sibling's child? When that elder sibling did not sit the throne the answer appears to be no, you have the better claim. In sum = ? I guess it's one of those 'good argument' situations. I still say Dany and think the very high frequency of Aegon answers is an uninformed assumption in most cases and based on going with one thing Tyrion said rather than knowing all the details.
Cutting the bullshit of arguing finer points of things that are ultimately unclear and getting to something more relevant to what is likely to happen what Numy says is more or less spot on. Claims are a means to power so long as nobody appeals to force with a slight ability to help gather support for a forceful confrontation and right now we are well past any definition/threshold for being in an appeal to force situation. I say Dany again, she has dragons, but a lot hinges on the result of this 'battle of fire' at the opening of Winds and it is very likely that she and Aegon will be allies or closer.
A lot hinges on this unsung third battle at the opening of Winds too come to think of it. Aegon wants to lead the charge in doing something that has never been done: take Storm's End. It's been nearly starved out. It's been convinced to surrender after being on the losing side. It's lord has been dumb enough unsiege and charge out at an enemy. It has not been taken directly. High probability of death. If he manages I suppose that might be taken as some kind of trial-by-combat-like sign of his legitimacy? That he is so strongly suspected of being a Faegon clouds the whole issue.
Sheesh, you know it is a bad night of code A when...
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I don't think that being female would really be a problem. Especially not if Dany has dragons.
GRRM showed us a lot of more or less "strong" female characters who are or were competitors for the throne. Cersei in the first books, but now falling apart. Cat with her will to take actions for her daughters even in opposition to all men around her, now with the lead of the brotherhood. Ygritte took what she wanted. The wench of tarth being a challenge even for the kingslayer. Asha Greyjoy went for the Iron throne but lost due to the horn. The sand snakes didn't accomplish much but are dangerous enough to imprison them.
Last but not least the "queen" Margaery and her grandma the queen of thorns who showed political instinct.
Also the claims seem rather unimportant to me. GRRM made it clear through Varis with his riddle about the sellsword who is commanded by the high priest, the rich man and the king to kill the other two. Whoever has the power will make the claim. Robert Baratheon had no claim at all to the throne, he took it nonetheless.
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On October 18 2012 19:34 Irrelevant Label wrote:
A lot hinges on this unsung third battle at the opening of Winds too come to think of it. Aegon wants to lead the charge in doing something that has never been done: take Storm's End. It's been nearly starved out. It's been convinced to surrender after being on the losing side. It's lord has been dumb enough unsiege and charge out at an enemy. It has not been taken directly. High probability of death. If he manages I suppose that might be taken as some kind of trial-by-combat-like sign of his legitimacy? That he is so strongly suspected of being a Faegon clouds the whole issue.
In a reading of Arianne II, it's revealed that Storm's End has yielded to Aegon, and Dorne is already preparing to ally itself with him.
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On the topic of Jon snow's parents and HBO clueing viewers... When Jon asked Ned about his mother before riding to the wall Ned looked like he broke down a little bit and appeared extremely emotional. It could point to the fact that he's having trouble with the guilt of keeping Jon a secret.
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On October 19 2012 03:51 Gentso wrote:
On the topic of Jon snow's parents and HBO clueing viewers... When Jon asked Ned about his mother before riding to the wall Ned looked like he broke down a little bit and appeared extremely emotional. It could point to the fact that he's having trouble with the guilt of keeping Jon a secret.
Doesn't Jon's mother make an appearance in Court when we're following Davos?
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On October 19 2012 06:27 Zorkmid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:51 Gentso wrote:
On the topic of Jon snow's parents and HBO clueing viewers... When Jon asked Ned about his mother before riding to the wall Ned looked like he broke down a little bit and appeared extremely emotional. It could point to the fact that he's having trouble with the guilt of keeping Jon a secret. Doesn't Jon's mother make an appearance in Court when we're following Davos?
As we don't know who she is, whether she's alive or not, and that she most likely is Lyanna (Ned's sister), it's highly unlikely that she was at court.
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I went back and checked. Wylla was in court in one of Davos' scenes. Whether or not that's really Jon's mother. Who knows.
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On October 19 2012 07:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I went back and checked. Wylla was in court in one of Davos' scenes. Whether or not that's really Jon's mother. Who knows.
99% probability it's Lyanna. Literally everything speaks to it.
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On October 19 2012 15:00 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 07:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I went back and checked. Wylla was in court in one of Davos' scenes. Whether or not that's really Jon's mother. Who knows. 99% probability it's Lyanna. Literally everything speaks to it.
Who are you saying is Lyanna? I thought it was Wylla Manderly being discussed so I'm very confused.
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He's saying Lyanna is Jon's mother not Wylla Manderly.
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Wylla Manderly != Wylla the wetnurse.
So even if Wylla is Jon's mother (and not Lyanna), it wouldn't be this Wylla.
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On October 19 2012 16:12 Sqisgar wrote:
He's saying Lyanna is Jon's mother not Wylla Manderly.
Ahh thanks, I though he was saying Wylla Manderly was actually Lyanna Stark lol.
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Ok. Why will Aegon not ally himself with Dany?
Aegon I (the first Targaryen ruler) was riding the BLACK dragon out of the 3 he had. His sisters were riding the other dragons. Dany is riding the black dragon (Drogon) of the three dragons she has. What if the situation is just reversed in comparison to Aegon I?
The ruler (this time a woman) rides the black dragon and this time her "aides" are two guys, possibly Aegon and someone else? Who could the third guy be?
It would be an interesting asymmetry if that would happen!
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On October 19 2012 15:00 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 07:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I went back and checked. Wylla was in court in one of Davos' scenes. Whether or not that's really Jon's mother. Who knows. 99% probability it's Lyanna. Literally everything speaks to it.
But wouldn't he then be white haired? remember "the seed is strong"?!
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On October 20 2012 02:43 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 15:00 Euronyme wrote:On October 19 2012 07:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I went back and checked. Wylla was in court in one of Davos' scenes. Whether or not that's really Jon's mother. Who knows. 99% probability it's Lyanna. Literally everything speaks to it. But wouldn't he then be white haired? remember "the seed is strong"?!
That was Robert.
Black hair is dominant, blonde hair is reccesive.
I'm not sure if we are going to be provided with the genetic code for Targaryn hair.
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On October 20 2012 02:48 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 02:43 Hryul wrote:On October 19 2012 15:00 Euronyme wrote:On October 19 2012 07:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I went back and checked. Wylla was in court in one of Davos' scenes. Whether or not that's really Jon's mother. Who knows. 99% probability it's Lyanna. Literally everything speaks to it. But wouldn't he then be white haired? remember "the seed is strong"?! That was Robert. Black hair is dominant, blonde hair is reccesive. I'm not sure if we are going to be provided with the genetic code for Targaryn hair.
I know this in real world. I figured though that the houses are special in the sense that they pass their hair color with the male line. Otherwise I'm quite confused how the Lannisters and especially the Targarayns preserved their fair hair. One Baratheon/Stark could ruin all 
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About a quarter of the way through A Storm of Swords, in my re-read. Man I had forgotten a lot of this shit from the third book. Like when Arya is taken by the outlaws serving Beric Dondarrion. If I remember correctly- she somehow ends up traveling with the hound? I think? And she kills him? And eventually ends up in the Free Cities? Its all very fuzzy, I can't remember exactly how she ends up out of the hands of the Beric's outlaws.
Also, I remember from my first read, Sansa being taken to the Eyrie by Littlefinger. But right now I'm at the part in the book where the Tyrell's were plotting to wed her to Willas Tyrell, but Tywin got wind of it and decided he wants to marry her Tyrion. So wtf? Again, can't remember what happens between here and there. But I've found I actually enjoy Sansa's story a lot more in the books than I do in the show.
A few funny lines I've read recently:
"Gendry rode out from behind the cottage wall, and behind him Hot Pie, leading her horse. In his chain mail shirt with his sword in his hand, Gendry looked almost like a man grown, and dangerous. Hot Pie looked like Hot Pie."
Hot Pie jokes never grow old, and they've been going for three books, haha
On page 170, Tyrion is talking to Shae, and she keeps mentioning what this singer is telling her:
"Symon says there's to be a singer's tourney..."
"Symon says there's to be a dancing bear..."
"Symon says there's to be a seventy-seven courses"
"There's to be a thousand guests, Symon says."
GRRM just being silly here. me gusta
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 20 2012 03:07 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 02:48 zalz wrote:On October 20 2012 02:43 Hryul wrote:On October 19 2012 15:00 Euronyme wrote:On October 19 2012 07:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I went back and checked. Wylla was in court in one of Davos' scenes. Whether or not that's really Jon's mother. Who knows. 99% probability it's Lyanna. Literally everything speaks to it. But wouldn't he then be white haired? remember "the seed is strong"?! That was Robert. Black hair is dominant, blonde hair is reccesive. I'm not sure if we are going to be provided with the genetic code for Targaryn hair. I know this in real world. I figured though that the houses are special in the sense that they pass their hair color with the male line. Otherwise I'm quite confused how the Lannisters and especially the Targarayns preserved their fair hair. One Baratheon/Stark could ruin all
The royal line of Targaryens married brother/sister or cousins for the most part, their descendants do not necessarily have silver hair and purple eyes (for example, Robert Baratheon doesn't). About Lannisters, their blonde hair may well be dominant, but Baratheon black is even more so (every known child born of Lannister+Baratheon marriage has black hair).
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On October 24 2012 07:27 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 03:07 Hryul wrote:On October 20 2012 02:48 zalz wrote:On October 20 2012 02:43 Hryul wrote:On October 19 2012 15:00 Euronyme wrote:On October 19 2012 07:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I went back and checked. Wylla was in court in one of Davos' scenes. Whether or not that's really Jon's mother. Who knows. 99% probability it's Lyanna. Literally everything speaks to it. But wouldn't he then be white haired? remember "the seed is strong"?! That was Robert. Black hair is dominant, blonde hair is reccesive. I'm not sure if we are going to be provided with the genetic code for Targaryn hair. I know this in real world. I figured though that the houses are special in the sense that they pass their hair color with the male line. Otherwise I'm quite confused how the Lannisters and especially the Targarayns preserved their fair hair. One Baratheon/Stark could ruin all The royal line of Targaryens married brother/sister or cousins for the most part, their descendants do not necessarily have silver hair and purple eyes (for example, Robert Baratheon doesn't). About Lannisters, their blonde hair may well be dominant, but Baratheon black is even more so (every known child born of Lannister+Baratheon marriage has black hair).
It could also be that the Lannisters tend to marry other blonde haired people and fewer black haired people. We don't really know many Lannisters outside of the ones in the story. And we know why Joffrey and the other two kids of Cersei all have the blonde hair.
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Isn't silvery-white not a 'real' hair color but rather just the result of lack of melanin/pigment, the cause of which can vary? It seems likely that either GRRM invented a fantasy hair color which may well be more dominant than it's blonde counterpart or something that hinders their pigmentation but isn't full blown albinism is yet another Targaryen (or rather Valyrian) disorder or he didn't plan it all out genetically he just wanted to use hair and eye colors as a common family identifier and to give the Targaryens the one that was unusual and stood out.
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EPT
