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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On July 01 2012 17:42 Irrelevant Label wrote:
There is a lot of wrong or far less than certain there.
Rickon and Bran are different people.
Azor Ahai reborn is not necessarily PwwP nor is there particularly compelling evidence that lightbringer is a sword as opposed to multiple other possible mediums (dragons, dragonfire, or the nights watch being the popular ideas).
Lots of things have pointed to Melisandre being very wrong about Stannis and when we finally get into her head in 5 we only got more evidence for it with her increasing uncertainties and confusion about what she is seeing in her fires vs. what she expects to see and wants to see.
There is more than a little bit of proven magic related to the old ways as well as to this great other, and potentially even the drowned god/storm god. Among the religions to receive any particular attention the only religions that follow the footsteps of real religions with regard to just being a matter of social tradition are the faith of the seven and the Dothraki mythology.
As for how the seven came to be popular in most of Westeros, it is a straight allegory of dark ages christianity (catholicism in particular). From a...fictoanthropological? standpoint it doesn't seem entirely reasonable that such a similar to real world faith based religion would be successful in a world with clear and observable magic supporting other traditions, but it is what it is.
Edit: +1 to Dany might not be barren anymore. Assuming MMD's statement was a prophecy and not just a fancy way of saying it will never happen then it might have been fulfilled. Furthermore, the whole thing with the onset of her menstruation and prophecy related dreams after visiting Dragonstone B seemed rather likely to be more than random filler.
Edit 2: Is that asoaif FAQ as brazen a plagiarization of the tower of the hand as it looks like or is it the same 'Maester Luwin' alias as Chris Holden of the tower of the hand?
The Andals and the First Men are literally the Anglos and the Saxons.
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On July 03 2012 05:03 Offhand wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 17:42 Irrelevant Label wrote:
There is a lot of wrong or far less than certain there.
Rickon and Bran are different people.
Azor Ahai reborn is not necessarily PwwP nor is there particularly compelling evidence that lightbringer is a sword as opposed to multiple other possible mediums (dragons, dragonfire, or the nights watch being the popular ideas).
Lots of things have pointed to Melisandre being very wrong about Stannis and when we finally get into her head in 5 we only got more evidence for it with her increasing uncertainties and confusion about what she is seeing in her fires vs. what she expects to see and wants to see.
There is more than a little bit of proven magic related to the old ways as well as to this great other, and potentially even the drowned god/storm god. Among the religions to receive any particular attention the only religions that follow the footsteps of real religions with regard to just being a matter of social tradition are the faith of the seven and the Dothraki mythology.
As for how the seven came to be popular in most of Westeros, it is a straight allegory of dark ages christianity (catholicism in particular). From a...fictoanthropological? standpoint it doesn't seem entirely reasonable that such a similar to real world faith based religion would be successful in a world with clear and observable magic supporting other traditions, but it is what it is.
Edit: +1 to Dany might not be barren anymore. Assuming MMD's statement was a prophecy and not just a fancy way of saying it will never happen then it might have been fulfilled. Furthermore, the whole thing with the onset of her menstruation and prophecy related dreams after visiting Dragonstone B seemed rather likely to be more than random filler.
Edit 2: Is that asoaif FAQ as brazen a plagiarization of the tower of the hand as it looks like or is it the same 'Maester Luwin' alias as Chris Holden of the tower of the hand? The Andals and the First Men are literally the Anglos and the Saxons.
well not literally, but that's a good analogy.
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On July 03 2012 01:10 Irrelevant Label wrote:
I just want to touch on one point. The rest of it is all fairly well beaten the death at this point and is just going in circles of reiteration and miscommunication.
Jon very nearly cannot be a bastard. It is just the default assumption because he is one in Ned's cover story and people forget that Targaryens had no qualms with polygamy.
Three members of the kingsguard, including the lord commander, would not have have been off guarding the crown prince's concubine while the king, line of succession, and rest of the royal family were all in mortal danger. Nor would they have stood their ground to prevent a concubine's rescue by her own brother after the royal family had been, to their knowledge, annihilated. Ned even tried to get them to stand down by informing them of Darry's escape with Rhaella and Viserys. Get them to drop their seemingly stupid mission and do their real duty elsewhere. They didn't know. They could only have been protecting, at minimum, the royal family. In all likelyhood though, something that represented the line of succession directly.
Might Rhaegar have ordered them there without the assignment representing the protection of the royal family? From a could standpoint, only maybe. Between the kingsguard themselves and Varys there is no way it would have been without Aerys' knowledge and therefore approval and a paranoid man does not lend out his protection idly. Such an order would be so entirely contrary to the tenets of the kingsguard that they would surely protest and require the direct order from the king even. From a would standpoint, no way in hell. As the tower of the hand puts it, by all counts Rhaegar was a reasonable and upstanding citizen type. A guy who fights honorably, valiantly, and nobly to a fault and dies for it. Why would he do something so mind-bogglingly absurd and, to step back to the previous layer, how would he get them to go along with something so mind-bogglingly absurd?
Lyanna and Rhaegar were married. That is what I was more cautiously saying when I mentioned Targaryens not being held to monogamy and Jon possibly not being a bastard Targaryen.
Jon would also have to be legitimate to be before Dany, as our near omniscient Bloodraven implied by calling him King. If he was a bastard it would be rather astoundingly out of character for Bloodraven of all people to be calling him King.
I can agree to all of this, but where did you hear the Targs were OK with polygamy? I'm pretty sure they all only had one wife.
One of them had bastards who he legitimized (the Blackfyres), but that's about as close as it gets when it comes to Targ polygamy in the series I think?
Edit. It's possible Rhaegar did a Tyrion though and picked up a priest who could break off the marriage with Elia and wed Rhaegar with Lyanna.
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On July 04 2012 22:51 Euronyme wrote:
I can agree to all of this, but where did you hear the Targs were OK with polygamy? I'm pretty sure they all only had one wife.
"however, instead of just one sister, he married both of them: his elder sister, Visenya, and his younger sister, Rhaenys."
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Aegon_I_Targaryen
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On July 04 2012 23:48 scudst0rm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 22:51 Euronyme wrote:
I can agree to all of this, but where did you hear the Targs were OK with polygamy? I'm pretty sure they all only had one wife.
"however, instead of just one sister, he married both of them: his elder sister, Visenya, and his younger sister, Rhaenys." http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Aegon_I_Targaryen
Oh right.. well that's one dude hundreds of years ago, and he came from wherever the Targs came from.. Valyria or something.
He wasn't Westerosi, while Rhaegar very much so was.
There's nothing that hints that Rhaegar would be ok with having two wives. None of the kings after the first had had two.
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On July 03 2012 09:31 Tewks44 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 05:03 Offhand wrote:On July 01 2012 17:42 Irrelevant Label wrote:
There is a lot of wrong or far less than certain there.
Rickon and Bran are different people.
Azor Ahai reborn is not necessarily PwwP nor is there particularly compelling evidence that lightbringer is a sword as opposed to multiple other possible mediums (dragons, dragonfire, or the nights watch being the popular ideas).
Lots of things have pointed to Melisandre being very wrong about Stannis and when we finally get into her head in 5 we only got more evidence for it with her increasing uncertainties and confusion about what she is seeing in her fires vs. what she expects to see and wants to see.
There is more than a little bit of proven magic related to the old ways as well as to this great other, and potentially even the drowned god/storm god. Among the religions to receive any particular attention the only religions that follow the footsteps of real religions with regard to just being a matter of social tradition are the faith of the seven and the Dothraki mythology.
As for how the seven came to be popular in most of Westeros, it is a straight allegory of dark ages christianity (catholicism in particular). From a...fictoanthropological? standpoint it doesn't seem entirely reasonable that such a similar to real world faith based religion would be successful in a world with clear and observable magic supporting other traditions, but it is what it is.
Edit: +1 to Dany might not be barren anymore. Assuming MMD's statement was a prophecy and not just a fancy way of saying it will never happen then it might have been fulfilled. Furthermore, the whole thing with the onset of her menstruation and prophecy related dreams after visiting Dragonstone B seemed rather likely to be more than random filler.
Edit 2: Is that asoaif FAQ as brazen a plagiarization of the tower of the hand as it looks like or is it the same 'Maester Luwin' alias as Chris Holden of the tower of the hand? The Andals and the First Men are literally the Anglos and the Saxons. well not literally, but that's a good analogy.
Well it is simply an adaptation of the "war of the roses" so "literally" is probably more accurate than "analogy."
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On July 05 2012 08:37 gods_basement wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 09:31 Tewks44 wrote:On July 03 2012 05:03 Offhand wrote:On July 01 2012 17:42 Irrelevant Label wrote:
There is a lot of wrong or far less than certain there.
Rickon and Bran are different people.
Azor Ahai reborn is not necessarily PwwP nor is there particularly compelling evidence that lightbringer is a sword as opposed to multiple other possible mediums (dragons, dragonfire, or the nights watch being the popular ideas).
Lots of things have pointed to Melisandre being very wrong about Stannis and when we finally get into her head in 5 we only got more evidence for it with her increasing uncertainties and confusion about what she is seeing in her fires vs. what she expects to see and wants to see.
There is more than a little bit of proven magic related to the old ways as well as to this great other, and potentially even the drowned god/storm god. Among the religions to receive any particular attention the only religions that follow the footsteps of real religions with regard to just being a matter of social tradition are the faith of the seven and the Dothraki mythology.
As for how the seven came to be popular in most of Westeros, it is a straight allegory of dark ages christianity (catholicism in particular). From a...fictoanthropological? standpoint it doesn't seem entirely reasonable that such a similar to real world faith based religion would be successful in a world with clear and observable magic supporting other traditions, but it is what it is.
Edit: +1 to Dany might not be barren anymore. Assuming MMD's statement was a prophecy and not just a fancy way of saying it will never happen then it might have been fulfilled. Furthermore, the whole thing with the onset of her menstruation and prophecy related dreams after visiting Dragonstone B seemed rather likely to be more than random filler.
Edit 2: Is that asoaif FAQ as brazen a plagiarization of the tower of the hand as it looks like or is it the same 'Maester Luwin' alias as Chris Holden of the tower of the hand? The Andals and the First Men are literally the Anglos and the Saxons. well not literally, but that's a good analogy. Well it is simply an adaptation of the "war of the roses" so "literally" is probably more accurate than "analogy."
It seems like less than 1/100 knows what 'literally' actually means. I recommend looking it up on wikipedia or your dictionary of choice.
The Andals and First Men are literally Andals and First Men, but the books are loosely based upon the war of the roses.
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On July 05 2012 09:43 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:37 gods_basement wrote:On July 03 2012 09:31 Tewks44 wrote:On July 03 2012 05:03 Offhand wrote:On July 01 2012 17:42 Irrelevant Label wrote:
There is a lot of wrong or far less than certain there.
Rickon and Bran are different people.
Azor Ahai reborn is not necessarily PwwP nor is there particularly compelling evidence that lightbringer is a sword as opposed to multiple other possible mediums (dragons, dragonfire, or the nights watch being the popular ideas).
Lots of things have pointed to Melisandre being very wrong about Stannis and when we finally get into her head in 5 we only got more evidence for it with her increasing uncertainties and confusion about what she is seeing in her fires vs. what she expects to see and wants to see.
There is more than a little bit of proven magic related to the old ways as well as to this great other, and potentially even the drowned god/storm god. Among the religions to receive any particular attention the only religions that follow the footsteps of real religions with regard to just being a matter of social tradition are the faith of the seven and the Dothraki mythology.
As for how the seven came to be popular in most of Westeros, it is a straight allegory of dark ages christianity (catholicism in particular). From a...fictoanthropological? standpoint it doesn't seem entirely reasonable that such a similar to real world faith based religion would be successful in a world with clear and observable magic supporting other traditions, but it is what it is.
Edit: +1 to Dany might not be barren anymore. Assuming MMD's statement was a prophecy and not just a fancy way of saying it will never happen then it might have been fulfilled. Furthermore, the whole thing with the onset of her menstruation and prophecy related dreams after visiting Dragonstone B seemed rather likely to be more than random filler.
Edit 2: Is that asoaif FAQ as brazen a plagiarization of the tower of the hand as it looks like or is it the same 'Maester Luwin' alias as Chris Holden of the tower of the hand? The Andals and the First Men are literally the Anglos and the Saxons. well not literally, but that's a good analogy. Well it is simply an adaptation of the "war of the roses" so "literally" is probably more accurate than "analogy." It seems like less than 1/100 knows what 'literally' actually means. I recommend looking it up on wikipedia or your dictionary of choice. The Andals and First Men are literally Andals and First Men, but the books are loosely based upon the war of the roses.
yeah, especially lately I hear it so much and it's misused 99% of the times, in sc2 casting, in poker, vlogs, everything, really annoying, im glad it's not just me
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I have an even funnier theory.
Cersei and Jaime are Targarien.
Dont know if the timeline match but it is said that Tywin didn't like what Aerys did during his Bedding. It wasn't explained what was it that was so shocking... Did he fucked and got the future wife pregnant?
This is very unlikely but there could be something of a greek tragedy.
Jaime killing his real father.
Cersei and Jaime producing kids Targaryen Style.
Tyrion killing his own father
=
Jaime killing his own father
Tywin / Tyrion, similar names.
Cersei/Joffrey are mad.
Why the first kids are blond and beautiful? And tyrion is a monster but with the true cunning of his father?
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I don't believe this is the case but the things that could contradict this are left open.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 18:12 0x64 wrote:
I have an even funnier theory.
Cersei and Jaime are Targarien.
Dont know if the timeline match but it is said that Tywin didn't like what Aerys did during his Bedding. It wasn't explained what was it that was so shocking... Did he fucked and got the future wife pregnant?
This is very unlikely but there could be something of a greek tragedy.
Jaime killing his real father.
Cersei and Jaime producing kids Targaryen Style.
Tyrion killing his own father
=
Jaime killing his own father
Tywin / Tyrion, similar names.
Cersei/Joffrey are mad.
Why the first kids are blond and beautiful? And tyrion is a monster but with the true cunning of his father?
----
I don't believe this is the case but the things that could contradict this are left open.
Even if Aerys did somekind of primae noctis to Twynns wife it would not be a recipe for madness, because incest causes madness not bedding somebody mad, and without the hair or the eyes the story would be really bad and unnecessary to have so many plots and turns, it would be like a very bad soap opera minus the amnesia.
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I just picked up one of the books again, and noticed the epilogue of the third book. It was about a chap in Old Town who was getting his maesters education and stole a key from one of the maesters and gave it to some shady fellow, got poisoned and died.
Does anyone remember if this actually leads anywhere, or is this just some random even that doesn't get a follow up?
Edit. It was the prologue for the fourth book.
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Its rumored that the "Alchemist" was Jaqen H'gar, and that he is the one impersonating Pate after killing him. Not clear what his objective is.
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On July 11 2012 00:02 moopie wrote:
Its rumored that the "Alchemist" was Jaqen H'gar, and that he is the one impersonating Pate after killing him. Not clear what his objective is.
And then Sam meets "Pate", but the story hasn't progressed from there yet. We will see more in the next book.
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On July 05 2012 09:43 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:37 gods_basement wrote:On July 03 2012 09:31 Tewks44 wrote:On July 03 2012 05:03 Offhand wrote:On July 01 2012 17:42 Irrelevant Label wrote:
There is a lot of wrong or far less than certain there.
Rickon and Bran are different people.
Azor Ahai reborn is not necessarily PwwP nor is there particularly compelling evidence that lightbringer is a sword as opposed to multiple other possible mediums (dragons, dragonfire, or the nights watch being the popular ideas).
Lots of things have pointed to Melisandre being very wrong about Stannis and when we finally get into her head in 5 we only got more evidence for it with her increasing uncertainties and confusion about what she is seeing in her fires vs. what she expects to see and wants to see.
There is more than a little bit of proven magic related to the old ways as well as to this great other, and potentially even the drowned god/storm god. Among the religions to receive any particular attention the only religions that follow the footsteps of real religions with regard to just being a matter of social tradition are the faith of the seven and the Dothraki mythology.
As for how the seven came to be popular in most of Westeros, it is a straight allegory of dark ages christianity (catholicism in particular). From a...fictoanthropological? standpoint it doesn't seem entirely reasonable that such a similar to real world faith based religion would be successful in a world with clear and observable magic supporting other traditions, but it is what it is.
Edit: +1 to Dany might not be barren anymore. Assuming MMD's statement was a prophecy and not just a fancy way of saying it will never happen then it might have been fulfilled. Furthermore, the whole thing with the onset of her menstruation and prophecy related dreams after visiting Dragonstone B seemed rather likely to be more than random filler.
Edit 2: Is that asoaif FAQ as brazen a plagiarization of the tower of the hand as it looks like or is it the same 'Maester Luwin' alias as Chris Holden of the tower of the hand? The Andals and the First Men are literally the Anglos and the Saxons. well not literally, but that's a good analogy. Well it is simply an adaptation of the "war of the roses" so "literally" is probably more accurate than "analogy." It seems like less than 1/100 knows what 'literally' actually means. I recommend looking it up on wikipedia or your dictionary of choice. The Andals and First Men are literally Andals and First Men, but the books are loosely based upon the war of the roses.
Is this a good source?
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/literally
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On July 11 2012 00:02 moopie wrote:
Its rumored that the "Alchemist" was Jaqen H'gar, and that he is the one impersonating Pate after killing him. Not clear what his objective is.
Holy Shit... I completely forgot the name of the guy that got poisoned and absolutely didn't make the connection to the guy Sam met. Thanks guys! 
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The only real follow-up to that is that it appears Sam has become bunk mates with a man who previously used a face called Jaqen in the laboratory/library/home/whatever of the "black sheep" magic respecting archmaester.
There are a lot of little known unknowns surrounding whatever all is going to be happening around Sam. What is up with these plots among the archmaesters and what type of play(s) might the citadel end up making soon, how is that archmaester who is more magic friendly and ran off to Dany going to end up playing into things, is there anything to Alleras (Sarella), what is a faceless man's mission, etc.
There are too many questions and it is all too new. It seems like a problematic opening of a new theatre of war/events when things are supposed to be starting to consolidate.
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On July 11 2012 00:29 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:43 Euronyme wrote:On July 05 2012 08:37 gods_basement wrote:On July 03 2012 09:31 Tewks44 wrote:On July 03 2012 05:03 Offhand wrote:On July 01 2012 17:42 Irrelevant Label wrote:
There is a lot of wrong or far less than certain there.
Rickon and Bran are different people.
Azor Ahai reborn is not necessarily PwwP nor is there particularly compelling evidence that lightbringer is a sword as opposed to multiple other possible mediums (dragons, dragonfire, or the nights watch being the popular ideas).
Lots of things have pointed to Melisandre being very wrong about Stannis and when we finally get into her head in 5 we only got more evidence for it with her increasing uncertainties and confusion about what she is seeing in her fires vs. what she expects to see and wants to see.
There is more than a little bit of proven magic related to the old ways as well as to this great other, and potentially even the drowned god/storm god. Among the religions to receive any particular attention the only religions that follow the footsteps of real religions with regard to just being a matter of social tradition are the faith of the seven and the Dothraki mythology.
As for how the seven came to be popular in most of Westeros, it is a straight allegory of dark ages christianity (catholicism in particular). From a...fictoanthropological? standpoint it doesn't seem entirely reasonable that such a similar to real world faith based religion would be successful in a world with clear and observable magic supporting other traditions, but it is what it is.
Edit: +1 to Dany might not be barren anymore. Assuming MMD's statement was a prophecy and not just a fancy way of saying it will never happen then it might have been fulfilled. Furthermore, the whole thing with the onset of her menstruation and prophecy related dreams after visiting Dragonstone B seemed rather likely to be more than random filler.
Edit 2: Is that asoaif FAQ as brazen a plagiarization of the tower of the hand as it looks like or is it the same 'Maester Luwin' alias as Chris Holden of the tower of the hand? The Andals and the First Men are literally the Anglos and the Saxons. well not literally, but that's a good analogy. Well it is simply an adaptation of the "war of the roses" so "literally" is probably more accurate than "analogy." It seems like less than 1/100 knows what 'literally' actually means. I recommend looking it up on wikipedia or your dictionary of choice. The Andals and First Men are literally Andals and First Men, but the books are loosely based upon the war of the roses. Is this a good source? http://theoatmeal.com/comics/literally
I think most people are consciously using it as a hyperbole. The real question is, is literally a valid hyperbole? Can hyperbole, by their own nature, have any constraints put on them?
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It doesn't seem very 'faceless man-ish' to kill Pete in order to get a key though. Arya was told that collateral damage was intolerable, and Pete was hardly a target.
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Pate wasn't killed just for the key, but so that Jaqen (or whichever other faceless man) could assume his identity, infiltrate the Citadel and get close to the Maesters. We're not sure what he's looking for, but being Pate allowed him access to Sam and Marwyn. Its safe to assume that he's there for some sort of knowledge, not a straight up assassination, otherwise he wouldn't have bothered with Pate imo.
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On July 11 2012 02:14 scudst0rm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 00:29 Antisocialmunky wrote:On July 05 2012 09:43 Euronyme wrote:On July 05 2012 08:37 gods_basement wrote:On July 03 2012 09:31 Tewks44 wrote:On July 03 2012 05:03 Offhand wrote:On July 01 2012 17:42 Irrelevant Label wrote:
There is a lot of wrong or far less than certain there.
Rickon and Bran are different people.
Azor Ahai reborn is not necessarily PwwP nor is there particularly compelling evidence that lightbringer is a sword as opposed to multiple other possible mediums (dragons, dragonfire, or the nights watch being the popular ideas).
Lots of things have pointed to Melisandre being very wrong about Stannis and when we finally get into her head in 5 we only got more evidence for it with her increasing uncertainties and confusion about what she is seeing in her fires vs. what she expects to see and wants to see.
There is more than a little bit of proven magic related to the old ways as well as to this great other, and potentially even the drowned god/storm god. Among the religions to receive any particular attention the only religions that follow the footsteps of real religions with regard to just being a matter of social tradition are the faith of the seven and the Dothraki mythology.
As for how the seven came to be popular in most of Westeros, it is a straight allegory of dark ages christianity (catholicism in particular). From a...fictoanthropological? standpoint it doesn't seem entirely reasonable that such a similar to real world faith based religion would be successful in a world with clear and observable magic supporting other traditions, but it is what it is.
Edit: +1 to Dany might not be barren anymore. Assuming MMD's statement was a prophecy and not just a fancy way of saying it will never happen then it might have been fulfilled. Furthermore, the whole thing with the onset of her menstruation and prophecy related dreams after visiting Dragonstone B seemed rather likely to be more than random filler.
Edit 2: Is that asoaif FAQ as brazen a plagiarization of the tower of the hand as it looks like or is it the same 'Maester Luwin' alias as Chris Holden of the tower of the hand? The Andals and the First Men are literally the Anglos and the Saxons. well not literally, but that's a good analogy. Well it is simply an adaptation of the "war of the roses" so "literally" is probably more accurate than "analogy." It seems like less than 1/100 knows what 'literally' actually means. I recommend looking it up on wikipedia or your dictionary of choice. The Andals and First Men are literally Andals and First Men, but the books are loosely based upon the war of the roses. Is this a good source? http://theoatmeal.com/comics/literally I think most people are consciously using it as a hyperbole. The real question is, is literally a valid hyperbole? Can hyperbole, by their own nature, have any constraints put on them?
Isn't that a little strange since the entire purpose of the word 'literally' is to clarify that what you are saying is not a hyperbole?
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EPT
