EPT[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 166
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Attican
Denmark531 Posts
On June 30 2012 05:32 zeru wrote: Wouldnt it be more accurate to call the thread A Song of Ice and Fire instead of Game of thrones, since that's just the first book of the series, and the name of the TV show, while this thread is more about all the books than anything else, and even if you have watched all the TV episodes you will still get majorly spoiled. There's already a thread called a song of ice and fire that predates the show by quite a while, it seems like most book discussion has just migrated to this thread though. Link to thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=47071 | ||
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Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On June 30 2012 05:32 zeru wrote: Wouldnt it be more accurate to call the thread A Song of Ice and Fire instead of Game of thrones, since that's just the first book of the series, and the name of the TV show, while this thread is more about all the books than anything else, and even if you have watched all the TV episodes you will still get majorly spoiled. There actually is a thread about the books, it's just that since the show nobody uses that one any more. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On June 30 2012 05:25 Sentenal wrote: As far as the North is concerned, I'd imagine Robb's will would count more than either Stannis or Roose Bolton's intentions. I agree he will be legitimized at some point, but the only options for that happening now seem to be either Stannis or Robb's letter. And at this point, I don't think its gonna be Stannis. I'm just saying, if Stannis beats the Boltons and essentially liberates the north, he can (and likely will) re-attempt to seat Jon as Lord of Winterfell again before he marches down into the Riverlands. On the other hand, if Stannis loses and the Boltons remain in control of the north, Jon is fucked with or without Robb's letter as far as becoming Lord of Winterfell is concerned. I don't see Roose going "oh, you have Robb's letter, I'll go ahead and step down now... sorry for betraying your step-brother btw, my bad". And the few lords that could be persuaded by Robb's will are pretty much the ones that have switched sides to support Stannis anyway (or are going to, like Manderly). The rest of them would stick with Bolton because its the safer bet, and because the letter can also just be said to be a fake. Either way, Jon's legitimacy only makes a difference if the Boltons are taken down. And if they're gone, him becoming legitimized is small potatoes at that point. edit: the only difference the letter makes is it would put Jon as the top heir (at Robb's command, since he assumed his other brothers were already dead when he wrote it) even though Rickon and Bran are actually still alive (and Rickon is on his way back from Skagos). Still though, thats not really that important because its not like Jon and Rickon would have fought for who gets to be Lord of Winterfell regardless. Even without the letter, Rickon would likely step aside and let Jon rule for the good of the family. edit2: If Stannis dies, but then Jon beats the Boltons with the help of his new wildling host (for example), then the letter will be the main thing legitimizing him and it actually matters. Although even in that case, no letter = Rickon is now Lord of Winterfell / King in the North, and he legitimizes Jon. Problem still solved. Legitimizing Jon is easy. | ||
semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
On June 30 2012 05:32 zeru wrote: Wouldnt it be more accurate to call the thread A Song of Ice and Fire instead of Game of thrones, since that's just the first book of the series, and the name of the TV show, while this thread is more about all the books than anything else, and even if you have watched all the TV episodes you will still get majorly spoiled. I kind of feel that this thread has been about both the movie and books and a place to discuss/compare the two. Though now that the second season has ended, mostly people have just been talking about the books and what might be coming next in the written story (or recently discussing whether or not Dany is crazy/honorable/insert other characteristic here). So there are three different ways to experience the series: (1) Watchers; (2) Readers; and (3) People who do both. This threads seems to have been those who partake in both. Also there is a Song of Ice and Fire thread that started a long while back, and people do still post there (though it's been a couple weeks) | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On June 30 2012 05:41 moopie wrote: I'm just saying, if Stannis beats the Boltons and essentially liberates the north, he can (and likely will) re-attempt to seat Jon as Lord of Winterfell again before he marches down into the Riverlands. On the other hand, if Stannis loses and the Boltons remain in control of the north, Jon is fucked with or without Robb's letter as far as becoming Lord of Winterfell is concerned. I don't see Roose going "oh, you have Robb's letter, I'll go ahead and step down now... sorry for betraying your step-brother btw, my bad". And the few lords that could be persuaded by Robb's will are pretty much the ones that have switched sides to support Stannis anyway (or are going to, like Manderly). The rest of them would stick with Bolton because its the safer bet, and because the letter can also just be said to be a fake. Either way, Jon's legitimacy only makes a difference if the Boltons are taken down. And if they're gone, him becoming legitimized is small potatoes at that point. edit: the only difference the letter makes is it would put Jon as the top heir (at Robb's command, since he assumed his other brothers were already dead when he wrote it) even though Rickon and Bran are actually still alive (and Rickon is on his way back from Skagos). Still though, thats not really that important because its not like Jon and Rickon would have fought for who gets to be Lord of Winterfell regardless. Even without the letter, Rickon would likely step aside and let Jon rule for the good of the family. edit2: If Stannis dies, but then Jon beats the Boltons with the help of his new wildling host (for example), then the letter will be the main thing legitimizing him and it actually matters. Although even in that case, no letter = Rickon is now Lord of Winterfell / King in the North, and he legitimizes Jon. Problem still solved. Legitimizing Jon is easy. Not entirely. Right now Roose has a number of Stark bannermen that would LEAVE if there was a legitimate Stark heir. Claims are very, very important in medieval society. Roose has a lot of the North behind him right now because the Starks are out of the picture. Everything thinks the house is extinguished. If Jon is legitimized, then House Stark is resurrected and many Northmen would flock to him and away from Roose. Even if Roose is the "safer" bet, the loyalty to House Stark in the North is extremely strong. Honor and loyalty does matter to many of the Northmen. Also, it's not guaranteed that Rickon, once he grew a little more, would just step aside for Jon. Rickon didn't have a strong bond of brotherhood with Jon. He was a baby when Jon left for the wall. It's also been shown Rickon has a lot of inner anger about all that has happened. He's a wild-card at this point in terms of what his intentions/ambitions are. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On June 30 2012 10:03 StorkHwaiting wrote: Not entirely. Right now Roose has a number of Stark bannermen that would LEAVE if there was a legitimate Stark heir. Claims are very, very important in medieval society. Roose has a lot of the North behind him right now because the Starks are out of the picture. Everything thinks the house is extinguished. If Jon is legitimized, then House Stark is resurrected and many Northmen would flock to him and away from Roose. Even if Roose is the "safer" bet, the loyalty to House Stark in the North is extremely strong. Honor and loyalty does matter to many of the Northmen. Also, it's not guaranteed that Rickon, once he grew a little more, would just step aside for Jon. Rickon didn't have a strong bond of brotherhood with Jon. He was a baby when Jon left for the wall. It's also been shown Rickon has a lot of inner anger about all that has happened. He's a wild-card at this point in terms of what his intentions/ambitions are. I agree, but I'd also say that Roose has a lot of the North behind him because of Fake Arya Stark. So because these Northmen believe that Roose does, in fact, have a Stark marrying into his house, they support him. If/when that comes out to be false/Someone ahead of Arya in the line appears, that support would likely go away. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On June 30 2012 10:34 Sentenal wrote: I agree, but I'd also say that Roose has a lot of the North behind him because of Fake Arya Stark. So because these Northmen believe that Roose does, in fact, have a Stark marrying into his house, they support him. If/when that comes out to be false/Someone ahead of Arya in the line appears, that support would likely go away. Yes, exactly. They wouldn't go to all that trouble if claims weren't so important in their world. It isn't as simple as might makes right. Legitimacy is a major issue when it comes to claiming castles and shit. Guess why Theon Greyjoy and the Greyjoys in general auto-failed in trying to attack the north? Because nobody would support them. They had zero legitimate claims on any of the territories. That's why he's going all the way to the Free Cities to try to get a Targaryen. Without a valid claim, they've got diddly. You need ridiculously overwhelming military force to be able to seize lands in Westeros and keep them without any sort of valid claim. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
http://winteriscoming.net/2012/06/clive-russell-cast-as-the-blackfish/ | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On June 30 2012 02:34 aloT wrote: When did Robb legit Jon? I can't remember that happening. Also Jon is not the only far shot. Jeyne could be pregnant, and her person switched with her sister for the purpose of capture (a popular theory). Bran too is not out of the woods yet. But my mind must be racing for memories. Exactly for what reason is Littlefinger claiming he is helping Sansa for again? To avenge Catelyn? Also for what reason does he need her to marry the Vale kid, why would they not rise for Sansa alone? Especially since Littlefinger is also their Lord Protector and would presumably have his authority to follow her too. I got the picture he's helping her mostly for her great resemblance of Catelyn. That's pretty much it I think. She's also to everyone's knowledge the heir to house Stark and Winterfell. That's a pretty important pawn in the game of thrones which he's been playing a fairly big part in for quite a while. If he was after land and a strong family name he could've married Sansa though. This would've given him a wife with the looks of Catelyn, his one love and also another huge title (beside the whole Vale) and land to govern and give to his potential future children. This would've made his first born son both heir to the Vale and the North. That's huge. Come to think of it his heirs probably wouldn't get the Vale. He's only some kind of guardian or something for Robin, and when he dies Littlefinger would have to step down to someone who's kin with the Arryns. On June 30 2012 04:38 scudst0rm wrote: I'm mostly asking about the giant warning in the OP. Do people not see it or are they just disregarding it? If you click the link to the left you get a full page of the most recent posts, so if you're just browsing and you see this thread active and click it you're going straight into the danger zone. Thankfully it's been fixed now, but that's why people were still getting spoiled. Edit. How come so many people seem to think that Jon is the son of Rhaegar T and Lyanna Stark? | ||
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MajuGarzett
Canada635 Posts
On July 01 2012 13:07 Euronyme wrote: I got the picture he's helping her mostly for her great resemblance of Catelyn. That's pretty much it I think. She's also to everyone's knowledge the heir to house Stark and Winterfell. That's a pretty important pawn in the game of thrones which he's been playing a fairly big part in for quite a while. If he was after land and a strong family name he could've married Sansa though. This would've given him a wife with the looks of Catelyn, his one love and also another huge title (beside the whole Vale) and land to govern and give to his potential future children. This would've made his first born son both heir to the Vale and the North. That's huge. Come to think of it his heirs probably wouldn't get the Vale. He's only some kind of guardian or something for Robin, and when he dies Littlefinger would have to step down to someone who's kin with the Arryns. If you click the link to the left you get a full page of the most recent posts, so if you're just browsing and you see this thread active and click it you're going straight into the danger zone. Thankfully it's been fixed now, but that's why people were still getting spoiled. Edit. How come so many people seem to think that Jon is the son of Rhaegar T and Lyanna Stark? There's a lot of evidence pointing towards it. http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html It fits Ned's character more than Ned having had a bastard son and explains a reasonable amount of stuff that's occured. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
Major deficiencies from [edit] the lack of information from [/edit] 4/5 of the top of my head: No Bran stuff in general No Quaithe propecies/cryptic warnings. No Arya/Jon/Dany/Melisandre dreams/visions. No Faegon. No Moqorro/Victarion/Dragonbinder. No Lemore. No Maggy the Frog. No Qyburn/Robert Strong. Still wondering what Valar Morghulis/Dohaeris mean, who killed Joff, and who impostor Arya is. | ||
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MajuGarzett
Canada635 Posts
On July 01 2012 15:27 Irrelevant Label wrote: The tower of the hand has been a bit neglected of late, but that is the best essay for it my knowledge. I don't think it has been updated for book 4/5 at all. A couple of it's topics are done being mysterious and most of the others should have new evidence. Major deficiencies from 4/5 of the top of my head: No Bran stuff in general No Quaithe propecies/cryptic warnings. No Arya/Jon/Dany/Melisandre dreams/visions. No Faegon. No Moqorro/Victarion/Dragonbinder. No Lemore. No Maggy the Frog. No Qyburn/Robert Strong. Still wondering what Valar Morghulis/Dohaeris mean, who killed Joff, and who impostor Arya is. Are you wondering that or is the site missing that? Just in case you are Valar Morghulis means all men must die, valar dohaeris is all men must serve, and impostor Arya is Jeyne Poole. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
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moopie
12605 Posts
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MajuGarzett
Canada635 Posts
On July 01 2012 15:37 Irrelevant Label wrote: No, that it still lists those as mysteries of the series. Ah, nvm then. I guess they're probably focusing more on the tv series now, especially since it's gonna be a while before the next book. | ||
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universe
Canada4 Posts
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On July 01 2012 16:39 universe wrote: Question regarding the season 2 finale. Did they not introduce some of the characters that were shown in the book for the sake of brevity and cost? I thought for sure that Mance Rayder was going to be in the end of the episode... they said it s not possible to throw 20 new characters at the audience at once, cuz they ll get lost. So Mance, the Blackfish, Ramsay Snow, Reed children gonna be introduced next year. And Joff was in all likelihood killed by Littlefinger's manipulating the Queen of Thornes to poison him with Sansa's head-jewelry thingy. | ||
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