[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 165

On June 29 2012 20:10 Irrelevant Label wrote:


There are a lot of layers to it and I think different people are concerned with different layers. There is just hating her all around, then there is disliking the character, then there is disliking some of the things she does, etc.

I have no problem critiquing her shortcomings because that is exactly what they are and it has a lot of interesting implications for the story. That hardly means I dislike the character. She is a crazy naive little girl sometimes and that is a pretty interesting mother of dragons messianic figure. When I say "get better" I mean from a personal improvement standpoint, not "I hope GRRM makes this character better."

From a character quality standpoint I do wonder sometimes about the swing that happened between book 3 and 5 where she regressed in wisdom and can't help but give the idea that GRRM screwed up with her when extending the story some credit. She was pretty nearly the coveted 'Tywin with teats' circa Yunkai/Mereen and dealing with her knights while the girl "ruling" Mereen seems like the person who still believes her asinine older brother about people back in Westeros sewing dragon banners. Put another way, it was weird to think she was 15 in book 3 while book 5 has almost a reverse impact. "Growing up in harsh conditions makes you mature faster, and also think about people like Alexander the great..." turned into "remember she is only 16."

On June 30 2012 02:34 aloT wrote:
When did Robb legit Jon? I can't remember that happening. Also Jon is not the only far shot. Jeyne could be pregnant, and her person switched with her sister for the purpose of capture (a popular theory). Bran too is not out of the woods yet.

But my mind must be racing for memories. Exactly for what reason is Littlefinger claiming he is helping Sansa for again? To avenge Catelyn? Also for what reason does he need her to marry the Vale kid, why would they not rise for Sansa alone? Especially since Littlefinger is also their Lord Protector and would presumably have his authority to follow her too.

On June 30 2012 00:40 Geo.Rion wrote:

Definetly not, since Ned was alive and able to carry the name, but yeah even if he wasnt, another great house wont renounce from their name. Smaller houses though.... idk, i should do some research on it, i had it in my mind this way.

But if daughters come before uncles (i think Alice Karstark explains this), that would mean that for example Winterfell could go to a *insertdanomhouse* when there are other Starks around. Which doesnt make sense either.

On June 30 2012 02:55 Sentenal wrote:

Right before Robb got to the Twins for the Red Wedding, there was talk about who his successor would be, since they didn't want to leave Sansa as next in line (with Bran/Rickon presumed dead, and Sansa's marriage to Tyrion). So Robb legitimized Jon, and gave the letter to those of his forces who went to Greywater Watch.


Also, Tyrion remained part of House Lannister after marrying Sansa, and they were saying that eventually he would be Lord of Winterfell. So I don't think Stark females keep their name/House after being married.

On June 30 2012 03:01 KOFgokuon wrote:


Jon being the heir is as of yet unverified, don't say it like it's guaranteed fact

On June 30 2012 01:00 Irrelevant Label wrote:
I really don't think Gendry is ever going to be anywhere near as important as some ideas keep thinking he will be. He was a tool for the black of hair thing that ended up sticking around with the nights watch caravan and then had a brief appearance to ruffle Brienne. He seems overused already and nearly has to be on the narrative chopping block of extraneous characters to simply fade out of the story. And remember, nobody even knows he is Robert's bastard in the first place.

The main/official Baratheon line is done. Shireen isn't going to live to adulthood and if she did probably would never have children of her own and nobody is about to legitimize Robert's surviving bastards.

The main Lannister line is looking quite bad but both Tyrion and Jaime have some chance. Otherwise they are still fine via cousins.

Starks should have both Rickon and Sansa, or at least Rickon. Bran isn't entirely out of game either, though I agree Arya more or less is. It is mostly on Rickon. Sansa seems likely to end up with <male victor figure> at the end having children who would be categorized under that line.

Arryns are more surely done than the Baratheons. Henry isn't an Arryn. It is all on deadboyshaking sweet robin.

Targaryens belong on that poll. They seem to be just behind the "surely screwed" lines as highly likely to be done despite the potential for multiple of their blood line among the "victors" at the end. If Dany stays barren, if Faegon is F, if Jon isn't a T, or if the person in question dies anyway or just doesn't end up in a position to have kids (Jon issue mostly) they are out.

Greyjoys are hardly safe either. Edit2: In fact, Greyjoys are in a ton of trouble. Who honestly sees Victarion or Euron surviving? Victarion probably won't survive the battle of Mereen despite being set to win the naval battle for Dany. If he survives the battle then what? We find out how much he is Moqorro's puppet? He tries to take Dany and gamblers everywhere lament how Drogon and Barristan kill him so quickly they couldn't place bets on which of them would be the one do it? Euron...ha. That leaves Asha...who is somewhere in the vicinity of as safe as Stannis.

edit:
Where is the everyone dies option? What if that original title for the last book was referring to four legged wolves because the others win?

On June 30 2012 02:55 Sentenal wrote:

Right before Robb got to the Twins for the Red Wedding, there was talk about who his successor would be, since they didn't want to leave Sansa as next in line (with Bran/Rickon presumed dead, and Sansa's marriage to Tyrion). So Robb legitimized Jon, and gave the letter to those of his forces who went to Greywater Watch.


Also, Tyrion remained part of House Lannister after marrying Sansa, and they were saying that eventually he would be Lord of Winterfell. So I don't think Stark females keep their name/House after being married.

On June 30 2012 03:35 ShenoaVOX wrote:
best show on TV!

On June 30 2012 03:46 ShenoaVOX wrote:
this thread saddens me though

On June 30 2012 03:50 scudst0rm wrote:




Do we need to make the font for the spoiler warning bigger? How does this keep happening?

On June 30 2012 04:33 Tewks44 wrote:


maybe the thread should be clearly titled to indicate that the spoilers are book spoilers, and not just TV spoilers. When I first found this thread I assumed it was to have unspoilered discussion about episodes that have already aired; I wasn't aware the thread encompassed the entire song of ice and fire thus far because the thread is tagged [TV]. It is a tad misleading when you think about it.

On June 30 2012 04:38 scudst0rm wrote:


I'm mostly asking about the giant warning in the OP. Do people not see it or are they just disregarding it?

On June 30 2012 04:55 moopie wrote:

Not like Jon's legitimization is an issue anyway, Stannis already offered to legitimize him and Jon declined. Until he severs his ties with the Night's Watch I don't see him declaring as a Stark (and Lord of Winterfell) regardless of Robb's will.

If Stannis survives the battle with Roose/Ramsey, he can still legitimize Jon (and the north will follow that order). If Stannis dies, Robb's will doesn't count for shit anyway because Bolton (and the other lords sworn to him) won't give a rat's ass.

I do think Jon will be legitimized at some point, but I don't really see the importance of Robb's letter anymore.