SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
On June 26 2012 14:47 moopie wrote: Jon isn't dead for the simple reason that his arc isn't done yet. His path isn't resolved yet, and there is nobody else at the wall that the story can be told through. If Sam was still there, then maybe Jon could have been killed off, but currently plot armor is going to keep him around. He'll either be gravely wounded, or resurrected by Melisandre, or warg into Ghost for a while before warging back into a human body.
Unfortunately, the same holds for Danny, who I can't see dying until her plot converges with the other events in Westeros. Too much buildup with no resolution so far. Can't just kill her off because all the readers (Danny fans and antifans alike) will just go "wtf, why was she even in this story then, could have been a seperate short story". Her events had very little influence over the rest of the major characters so far (with slight exception to Tyrion).
I think the major point of Dany's near death experiences are that she has stop whimpering about the free cities and go conquer Westeros. Her dreams are telling her just that, and that she's no longer mother of dragons as of when she locked them up etc. I think the next books first chapter with Dany will be the dragon carrying her back, and she'll tell her men to take off to Westeros immidiately or something like that. Some quick action there atleast to move towards Westeros for sure.
It will be probably her riding her Dragon with a Dothraki horde at her back coming to sweep away all the people sieging Mereen.
On June 26 2012 14:47 moopie wrote: Jon isn't dead for the simple reason that his arc isn't done yet. His path isn't resolved yet, and there is nobody else at the wall that the story can be told through. If Sam was still there, then maybe Jon could have been killed off, but currently plot armor is going to keep him around. He'll either be gravely wounded, or resurrected by Melisandre, or warg into Ghost for a while before warging back into a human body.
Unfortunately, the same holds for Danny, who I can't see dying until her plot converges with the other events in Westeros. Too much buildup with no resolution so far. Can't just kill her off because all the readers (Danny fans and antifans alike) will just go "wtf, why was she even in this story then, could have been a seperate short story". Her events had very little influence over the rest of the major characters so far (with slight exception to Tyrion).
I think the major point of Dany's near death experiences are that she has stop whimpering about the free cities and go conquer Westeros. Her dreams are telling her just that, and that she's no longer mother of dragons as of when she locked them up etc. I think the next books first chapter with Dany will be the dragon carrying her back, and she'll tell her men to take off to Westeros immidiately or something like that. Some quick action there atleast to move towards Westeros for sure.
It will be probably her riding her Dragon with a Dothraki horde at her back coming to sweep away all the people sieging Mereen.
Oh yeah, that's true, one of the hordes are about. I'm really interested in what will happen with the Iron Bank of Bravos + Stannis. Do you think he's really dead? Stannis seemed like a pretty OK guy to me. Probably the closest thing to Eddard.
^ While I also don't think Stannis died, the timeline of events isn't directly following the end of ADwD, but rather coinciding with it. We don't know if Stannis' chapter in TWoW is before or after Jon receiving the letter from Ramsey.
He also read an excerpt from a Victarion chapter, which you can listen to here (at 30 minutes) :
I believe he also read an Arianne chapter and parts of a Tyrion chapter (at WorldCon 2011 and EasterCon respectively) but I don't know if there's a video/transcript for them.
I believe he also read an Arianne chapter and parts of a Tyrion chapter (at WorldCon 2011 and EasterCon respectively) but I don't know if there's a video/transcript for them.
Martin said that he will reveal Jon's true mother in the new book plus take us more North than ever, and yeah plus a previous poster said Jon is really the only eyes there, and he would really have served no purpose if he had died so quickly. I hope the Jon being the son of Rhaegar + Lyanna conspiracy theory will be true, because that would be kickass!
On June 26 2012 16:09 zeru wrote: Stannis is in one of the first chapters in winds of winter, so i dont think hes dead.
That chapter takes place before Jon's last chapter in aDwD, so by that time he may be dead. I don't think he is, but it is a possibility.
Well how do you explain the letter Jon got from Bolton? In the very least, Bolton is in a state to send crows that don't get shot down, and he knows a lot about Stannis army. It's not unlikely that Bolton won the fight. I wonder what happened to the guys from White Harbour. I thought for sure that they were going to change side to Stannis, but how are they supposed to do that in the middle of the fight?
Almost nothing about what happens at/near Winterfell at the end of book 5/beginning of book 6 is sure enough to even take an educated guess on. Ramsay probably does not possess Theon and Jeyne as either he lost or is otherwise not it's author and in either case is not in a position to command much if anything or he won and there is then no particular reason to doubt that part of the letter and that he is the author.
I'd guess there is a slightly more likely than not chance that Ramsay is the author of the letter because it seems reasonable for him to have won as it seems to be time for Stannis to die.
We don't even know that the letter is actually from Ramsay. There's some theories that the letter is from someone else such as Mance, Melisandre, Stannis (with Theon's help) or possibly Asha/Theon.
The letter didn't have a seal, and technically speaking it should have been sent by Roose instead of Ramsay unless Roose died somehow.
On June 27 2012 13:24 Irrelevant Label wrote: Almost nothing about what happens at/near Winterfell at the end of book 5/beginning of book 6 is sure enough to even take an educated guess on. Ramsay probably does not possess Theon and Jeyne as either he lost or is otherwise not it's author and in either case is not in a position to command much if anything or he won and there is then no particular reason to doubt that part of the letter and that he is the author.
I'd guess there is a slightly more likely than not chance that Ramsay is the author of the letter because it seems reasonable for him to have won as it seems to be time for Stannis to die.
Well Theon and the girls died right? They tried to escape and got crossbowed down. That doesn't mean Bolton lost.
Other than that we don't know. One scenario would be that Stannis lost and is now a prisoner. The Iron Bank of Braavos army is on their way there too iirc, and the White Harbour lads hate the Boltons and the Freys. There could be some rescue action there and Stannis can lead the Iron Bank's army.
On June 26 2012 21:36 ToT)OjKa( wrote: Who's everyone's favourite character?
MOTHER FUCKING STANNIS
STANNIS BRINGIN DOWN THA LAW ON ALL THEM MOTHERFUCKERS
But yes Stannis is my favorite major character. He seems to be the only one left other than Dany with any principles and honor.
Except for my other man the baddest bad ass in Westeros bringing his tour of badassery east to Essos, Ser Barristan Badass. Err the Bold.
I think Stannis is alive and takes his first battle against the Boltons, remember Roose sent the Freys and the Manderlys out to go after Stannis before they tore each other apart inside Winterfell. Roose and the Boltons are still back at Winterfell except maybe Ramsay, he might be heading off to the Wall like he threatened. I'm pretty sure the Manderlys will turn on the Freys before the battle, the Freys will get slaughtered, and then Stannis and the Manderlys will lay siege to Winterfell.
I don't think anyone but Ramsay sent that letter to Jon, Roose isn't stupid he wouldn't threaten war on the Night's Watch with his hold on the North still so tenuous.
On June 27 2012 13:24 Irrelevant Label wrote: Almost nothing about what happens at/near Winterfell at the end of book 5/beginning of book 6 is sure enough to even take an educated guess on. Ramsay probably does not possess Theon and Jeyne as either he lost or is otherwise not it's author and in either case is not in a position to command much if anything or he won and there is then no particular reason to doubt that part of the letter and that he is the author.
I'd guess there is a slightly more likely than not chance that Ramsay is the author of the letter because it seems reasonable for him to have won as it seems to be time for Stannis to die.
Well Theon and the girls died right? They tried to escape and got crossbowed down. That doesn't mean Bolton lost.
Other than that we don't know. One scenario would be that Stannis lost and is now a prisoner. The Iron Bank of Braavos army is on their way there too iirc, and the White Harbour lads hate the Boltons and the Freys. There could be some rescue action there and Stannis can lead the Iron Bank's army.
Theon didn't die. He escaped and made it to Stannis' camp with FakeArya.
And I don't believe the Iron Bank of Braavos has an army.
On June 27 2012 13:54 DeepElemBlues wrote: He seems to be the only one left other than Dany with any principles and honor.
Since when did Dany have honor or principles? she's just a spoiled selfish brat who tries to rationalize her decisions and ignores her advisors when they disagree with her. Where was her honor when she stole Illyrio's ships and sold off their contents? Where was her honor when she went back on her word and stole the Unsullied?
Her "honor" led to a huge fucking war and caused the deaths of thousands in Slavers's Bay, including a ton of innocents, pretty much hurting everyone in the process.
Since day 1 she has been trying to raise an army to brute force her way into the Iron Throne (killing anyone who stands in her way) when her only legitimacy is that her ancestors did the same at one point.
On June 27 2012 13:24 Irrelevant Label wrote: Almost nothing about what happens at/near Winterfell at the end of book 5/beginning of book 6 is sure enough to even take an educated guess on. Ramsay probably does not possess Theon and Jeyne as either he lost or is otherwise not it's author and in either case is not in a position to command much if anything or he won and there is then no particular reason to doubt that part of the letter and that he is the author.
I'd guess there is a slightly more likely than not chance that Ramsay is the author of the letter because it seems reasonable for him to have won as it seems to be time for Stannis to die.
Well Theon and the girls died right? They tried to escape and got crossbowed down. That doesn't mean Bolton lost.
Other than that we don't know. One scenario would be that Stannis lost and is now a prisoner. The Iron Bank of Braavos army is on their way there too iirc, and the White Harbour lads hate the Boltons and the Freys. There could be some rescue action there and Stannis can lead the Iron Bank's army.
Theon didn't die. He escaped and made it to Stannis' camp with FakeArya.
And I don't believe the Iron Bank of Braavos has an army.
I might have dreamed it, but I recall that it was explained that if you cross the iron bank of braavos they'll find a rival of your title and help them usurp it if they promise to repay the debt. That's how they roll. There was a banker in castle black who made a deal with Jon that the Night's Watch could borrow money to buy food for the winter. That banker was on his way to Stannis. He had what was it? 16 ships? Those ships Jon made him lend to the wildlings I think so they could escape from the place the witch had said the wildlings who escaped from the battle at the wall should run to. Those 16 ships wern't empy, and there's more coming if Stannis accepts the deal. I think they can make Stannis army more than substantial.
EPT
