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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 08 2012 07:17 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:01 Sprungjeezy wrote:On May 08 2012 06:31 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 06:16 Shockk wrote:On May 08 2012 04:47 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:
You should probably stop watching the show if you are just going to lash out when it's not page for page what happens in the book. ? That's weird. I make a comment on the most deviating episode of the entire series as of yet and choose to focus on one detail. Would that not mean i'm fine with them changing the pace/style of the narrative in general? So many things differ and i don't complain, no mention from me about stolen dragons or missing characters. But taking this cheap cop-out route of showing a "just another victim" portrayal of a female character is terrible and unmotivated. Martins female characters are what makes his work stand out from the norm in the fantasy genre and indeed what keeps me and many others reading. This was most likely done because it's "easier to quickly understand" - a little girl crying as she's taken off is expected to do so. Would look weird if she didn't. Well it's cheapening, it's insulting to the viewers and it's wrong. She didn't cry, Tommen did. The distinction is fucking important. It's growing old seeing all these so-called fans and their completely over-the-top outrage over mere details. You're up in arms over a change that 90% of the books' readers probably didn't even notice or remember, and of those that did, another 99% probably didn't care. "completely compromises the original work" ... get over yourself. What do i care what the majority thinks in this matter? It obviously mattered to me and in line with the discussion of this thread i voiced my opinion. Myrcella not crying was one of my top 10 moments from the books all together, not many will agree with me on this but i know of at least some. Why do i react so strongly? Because it was completely unnecessary. I doubt much discussion even preceded this decision. It would have taken them ten extra minutes of thinking to come up with a way of not having to show a scene in complete contrast with the book. I don't think they've ever directly contradicted the books before - changed/replaced things, yes - but never just taken a scene and reversed it. From what I can understand you see this scene as (in the books) Myrcella has a strong adult mind and was strong and would not cry - but in the books it IS Myrcella was an older sister who knew her younger brother was upset and comforted him, that is not to say she did not cry on the trip at all, merely that she comforted her brother. Even if it were either of these, the show does not show does not go that far in having her shown as very sad. You believe the book is on one extreme and the show is on the opposite extreme when in reality the two are very close to the center. No, i don't give a shit about Myrcella, she's a non-character, in the books and in the series alike. What i do care about is the stereotypical nature of the current narrative in visual media. Clashing with it is always a good thing and even if you don't take every battle - don't change what's originally a good scene and make it the worst possible representation of a departing princess. "Femininity" is portrayed as a purely negative thing throughout the entire books. Yet strangely, the female characters are neither useless nor entirely masculine. The producers just gave Myrcella a feminine trait for no reason, She doesn't deserve better, but the overall production does.
cba with this... Seems like whine for the sake of whine...
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It bums me out that the Jeyne Westerling character and related plot was replaced with this random girl from Volantis who apparently crossed the Sea to wander around Westeros tending for wounded soldiers of two Westerosi families that have no connection to Volantis... I mean the story of Robb meeting her when he's wounded after storming the castle and then she "comforts" him is a good story arc by itself... I don't know what the writers didn't like about it.
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On May 08 2012 07:27 Tewks44 wrote:
It bums me out that the Jeyne Westerling character and related plot was replaced with this random girl from Volantis who apparently crossed the Sea to wander around Westeros tending for wounded soldiers of two Westerosi families that have no connection to Volantis... I mean the story of Robb meeting her when he's wounded after storming the castle and then she "comforts" him is a good story arc by itself... I don't know what the writers didn't like about it.
I thought it was pretty clear that she's lying about her name and Robb is on to her. I'm convinced she is still Jeyne Westerling.
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On May 08 2012 07:08 icclown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 06:49 Clegane wrote:
I like most changes or at least can deal with them.
Only things i don't like: Ygritte too hot (that was said too much already)
No Meera and Jojen so far although very important
Littlefinger is traveling in high speed.
No they need to make 2 things brilliant: House of the Undying and Blackwater. Then I'm satisfied.
And finally i got to begin to show my true face :D
Ygritte's too damn hawt! It would be so much more trustworthy if she was at least a little bit ugly! Otherwise, I like the changes from book to tv, most of it makes the story seem legit :D
It's the teeth. Many characters should be more ugly than they are simply because of their crooked teeth but it's obviously impossible to find any actresses capable of reading a script without a hollywood smile.
Here's a great example:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GvFhO.jpg)
Look how gorgeous she is!
Now open the spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +
It really makes a huge difference and is used on many characters throughout the books. Important thing to note though, as i uploaded these images and made the smudge effect - i got over the initial shock value and much like for Jon, it transcends into acceptable (and i imagine, eventually endearing).
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On May 08 2012 07:17 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:01 Sprungjeezy wrote:On May 08 2012 06:31 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 06:16 Shockk wrote:On May 08 2012 04:47 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:
You should probably stop watching the show if you are just going to lash out when it's not page for page what happens in the book. ? That's weird. I make a comment on the most deviating episode of the entire series as of yet and choose to focus on one detail. Would that not mean i'm fine with them changing the pace/style of the narrative in general? So many things differ and i don't complain, no mention from me about stolen dragons or missing characters. But taking this cheap cop-out route of showing a "just another victim" portrayal of a female character is terrible and unmotivated. Martins female characters are what makes his work stand out from the norm in the fantasy genre and indeed what keeps me and many others reading. This was most likely done because it's "easier to quickly understand" - a little girl crying as she's taken off is expected to do so. Would look weird if she didn't. Well it's cheapening, it's insulting to the viewers and it's wrong. She didn't cry, Tommen did. The distinction is fucking important. It's growing old seeing all these so-called fans and their completely over-the-top outrage over mere details. You're up in arms over a change that 90% of the books' readers probably didn't even notice or remember, and of those that did, another 99% probably didn't care. "completely compromises the original work" ... get over yourself. What do i care what the majority thinks in this matter? It obviously mattered to me and in line with the discussion of this thread i voiced my opinion. Myrcella not crying was one of my top 10 moments from the books all together, not many will agree with me on this but i know of at least some. Why do i react so strongly? Because it was completely unnecessary. I doubt much discussion even preceded this decision. It would have taken them ten extra minutes of thinking to come up with a way of not having to show a scene in complete contrast with the book. I don't think they've ever directly contradicted the books before - changed/replaced things, yes - but never just taken a scene and reversed it. From what I can understand you see this scene as (in the books) Myrcella has a strong adult mind and was strong and would not cry - but in the books it IS Myrcella was an older sister who knew her younger brother was upset and comforted him, that is not to say she did not cry on the trip at all, merely that she comforted her brother. Even if it were either of these, the show does not show does not go that far in having her shown as very sad. You believe the book is on one extreme and the show is on the opposite extreme when in reality the two are very close to the center. No, i don't give a shit about Myrcella, she's a non-character, in the books and in the series alike. What i do care about is the stereotypical nature of the current narrative in visual media. Clashing with it is always a good thing and even if you don't take every battle - don't change what's originally a good scene and make it the worst possible representation of a departing princess. "Femininity" is portrayed as a purely negative thing throughout the entire books. Yet strangely, the female characters are neither useless nor entirely masculine. The producers just gave Myrcella a feminine trait for no reason, She doesn't deserve better, but the overall production does. I think you're the one defining crying as feminine, not the writers. Tommen cries also, and Sansa mentions Bran crying in a similar situation, although I dont remember if this is true or just a lie she made up. In either case, her next line "it seems a normal thing" or whatever seems to be the point they're trying to make.
In other words, congratulations on agreeing with Joffrey about something.
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m Ygritte didnt say "you know nothing Jon Snow" a single time.. kinda weird..
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On May 08 2012 07:34 GDbushido wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:17 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 07:01 Sprungjeezy wrote:On May 08 2012 06:31 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 06:16 Shockk wrote:On May 08 2012 04:47 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:
You should probably stop watching the show if you are just going to lash out when it's not page for page what happens in the book. ? That's weird. I make a comment on the most deviating episode of the entire series as of yet and choose to focus on one detail. Would that not mean i'm fine with them changing the pace/style of the narrative in general? So many things differ and i don't complain, no mention from me about stolen dragons or missing characters. But taking this cheap cop-out route of showing a "just another victim" portrayal of a female character is terrible and unmotivated. Martins female characters are what makes his work stand out from the norm in the fantasy genre and indeed what keeps me and many others reading. This was most likely done because it's "easier to quickly understand" - a little girl crying as she's taken off is expected to do so. Would look weird if she didn't. Well it's cheapening, it's insulting to the viewers and it's wrong. She didn't cry, Tommen did. The distinction is fucking important. It's growing old seeing all these so-called fans and their completely over-the-top outrage over mere details. You're up in arms over a change that 90% of the books' readers probably didn't even notice or remember, and of those that did, another 99% probably didn't care. "completely compromises the original work" ... get over yourself. What do i care what the majority thinks in this matter? It obviously mattered to me and in line with the discussion of this thread i voiced my opinion. Myrcella not crying was one of my top 10 moments from the books all together, not many will agree with me on this but i know of at least some. Why do i react so strongly? Because it was completely unnecessary. I doubt much discussion even preceded this decision. It would have taken them ten extra minutes of thinking to come up with a way of not having to show a scene in complete contrast with the book. I don't think they've ever directly contradicted the books before - changed/replaced things, yes - but never just taken a scene and reversed it. From what I can understand you see this scene as (in the books) Myrcella has a strong adult mind and was strong and would not cry - but in the books it IS Myrcella was an older sister who knew her younger brother was upset and comforted him, that is not to say she did not cry on the trip at all, merely that she comforted her brother. Even if it were either of these, the show does not show does not go that far in having her shown as very sad. You believe the book is on one extreme and the show is on the opposite extreme when in reality the two are very close to the center. No, i don't give a shit about Myrcella, she's a non-character, in the books and in the series alike. What i do care about is the stereotypical nature of the current narrative in visual media. Clashing with it is always a good thing and even if you don't take every battle - don't change what's originally a good scene and make it the worst possible representation of a departing princess. "Femininity" is portrayed as a purely negative thing throughout the entire books. Yet strangely, the female characters are neither useless nor entirely masculine. The producers just gave Myrcella a feminine trait for no reason, She doesn't deserve better, but the overall production does. I think you're the one defining crying as feminine, not the writers. Tommen cries also, and Sansa mentions Bran crying in a similar situation, although I dont remember if this is true or just a lie she made up. In either case, her next line "it seems a normal thing" or whatever seems to be the point they're trying to make. In other words, congratulations on agreeing with Joffrey about something.
Yes, because obviously Joffrey is adamant about the character portrayals in Television series to closely match the novels the series is based on.
I mean, I think the whole "Myrcella didn't cry in the books" is overly nit picky, but come on man, don't twist his words around and then make the absurd point that he's agreeing with Joffrey.
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On May 08 2012 07:27 Tewks44 wrote:
It bums me out that the Jeyne Westerling character and related plot was replaced with this random girl from Volantis who apparently crossed the Sea to wander around Westeros tending for wounded soldiers of two Westerosi families that have no connection to Volantis... I mean the story of Robb meeting her when he's wounded after storming the castle and then she "comforts" him is a good story arc by itself... I don't know what the writers didn't like about it.
Yeah really. The show would have actually been a great way to give some attention to that part when it's just background in the book.
I felt sympathetic towards his betrayal of the Freys in the books. He was in a bad spot after hearing his brothers died and made a regrettable mistake but married her because he thought it was the honorable thing to do. Now his betrayal will be over some chick he's been hitting on for a while though, which really isn't as forgiving, regardless of how they choose to bring them together in the end.
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On May 08 2012 07:34 GDbushido wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:17 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 07:01 Sprungjeezy wrote:On May 08 2012 06:31 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 06:16 Shockk wrote:On May 08 2012 04:47 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:
You should probably stop watching the show if you are just going to lash out when it's not page for page what happens in the book. ? That's weird. I make a comment on the most deviating episode of the entire series as of yet and choose to focus on one detail. Would that not mean i'm fine with them changing the pace/style of the narrative in general? So many things differ and i don't complain, no mention from me about stolen dragons or missing characters. But taking this cheap cop-out route of showing a "just another victim" portrayal of a female character is terrible and unmotivated. Martins female characters are what makes his work stand out from the norm in the fantasy genre and indeed what keeps me and many others reading. This was most likely done because it's "easier to quickly understand" - a little girl crying as she's taken off is expected to do so. Would look weird if she didn't. Well it's cheapening, it's insulting to the viewers and it's wrong. She didn't cry, Tommen did. The distinction is fucking important. It's growing old seeing all these so-called fans and their completely over-the-top outrage over mere details. You're up in arms over a change that 90% of the books' readers probably didn't even notice or remember, and of those that did, another 99% probably didn't care. "completely compromises the original work" ... get over yourself. What do i care what the majority thinks in this matter? It obviously mattered to me and in line with the discussion of this thread i voiced my opinion. Myrcella not crying was one of my top 10 moments from the books all together, not many will agree with me on this but i know of at least some. Why do i react so strongly? Because it was completely unnecessary. I doubt much discussion even preceded this decision. It would have taken them ten extra minutes of thinking to come up with a way of not having to show a scene in complete contrast with the book. I don't think they've ever directly contradicted the books before - changed/replaced things, yes - but never just taken a scene and reversed it. From what I can understand you see this scene as (in the books) Myrcella has a strong adult mind and was strong and would not cry - but in the books it IS Myrcella was an older sister who knew her younger brother was upset and comforted him, that is not to say she did not cry on the trip at all, merely that she comforted her brother. Even if it were either of these, the show does not show does not go that far in having her shown as very sad. You believe the book is on one extreme and the show is on the opposite extreme when in reality the two are very close to the center. No, i don't give a shit about Myrcella, she's a non-character, in the books and in the series alike. What i do care about is the stereotypical nature of the current narrative in visual media. Clashing with it is always a good thing and even if you don't take every battle - don't change what's originally a good scene and make it the worst possible representation of a departing princess. "Femininity" is portrayed as a purely negative thing throughout the entire books. Yet strangely, the female characters are neither useless nor entirely masculine. The producers just gave Myrcella a feminine trait for no reason, She doesn't deserve better, but the overall production does. I think you're the one defining crying as feminine, not the writers. Tommen cries also, and Sansa mentions Bran crying in a similar situation, although I dont remember if this is true or just a lie she made up. In either case, her next line "it seems a normal thing" or whatever seems to be the point they're trying to make. In other words, congratulations on agreeing with Joffrey about something.
Yes, Tommen cries because he's a little bitch. He's described as such every opportunity that's given in the books, i can give countless examples.
Tommen is not fit to rule because he's too gentle.
Joffrey was not fit to rule because he was too cruel.
Myrcella is not fit to rule.. because she wasn't born with a cock.
It's all part of a greater point Martin is making.
Brans initial femininity is just a tool used to make Arya stand out as even more awesome (which i will admit - they didn't botch, the pilot episode with the bow and arrow sets the tone beautifully and overall i'm quite pleased with how they're handling Arya. Let's hope they do equally well with "Yara").
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Tommen is only described as a little bitch by the more repulsive characters, he's nine years old or whatever for cripe's sake. Tyrion for one repeatedly describes him as a sweet little boy who is what a little boy should be.
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On May 08 2012 07:40 Carras wrote:
m Ygritte didnt say "you know nothing Jon Snow" a single time.. kinda weird..
That comes later I think.
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I like the changes from the book. It makes the series more exciting for peole that have read the book, at least it does for me.
And lets be honest, some of the passages in the book were rather boring or did not make much sense. Spicing up some of the stuff for a TV adaptation makes sense.
On another note, Ygritte is hot. I need to find me a redhead girl now. 
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On May 08 2012 07:49 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Tommen is only described as a little bitch by the more repulsive characters, he's nine years old or whatever for cripe's sake. Tyrion for one repeatedly describes him as a sweet little boy who is what a little boy should be.
And that he needs to get away from his mother for the good of the kingdom.
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On May 08 2012 07:49 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Tommen is only described as a little bitch by the more repulsive characters, he's nine years old or whatever for cripe's sake. Tyrion for one repeatedly describes him as a sweet little boy who is what a little boy should be.
By modern standards, Tommen is a perfectly normal boy.
By Tyrion's standards, Tommen is a welcome contrast to Joff.
By the standards of the general narrative, Tommen is very ill suited to sit the Iron Throne. Not just any throne, the throne of swords that will bleed soft unhardened skin. A boy his age should play at swords with his friends and complain that he's not allowed to go on boar hunts, not hide sniveling behind his mother's skirts, not panic at his + Show Spoiler +.
There's no room for weakness when winter is coming.
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On May 08 2012 08:09 Redox wrote:I like the changes from the book. It makes the series more exciting for peole that have read the book, at least it does for me. And lets be honest, some of the passages in the book were rather boring or did not make much sense. Spicing up some of the stuff for a TV adaptation makes sense. On another note, Ygritte is hot. I need to find me a redhead girl now.
What books were you reading? The job of an author is to make every single word be congruent and intruiging. Often while reading, our minds wander and we become bored. Sometimes this is because of a boring story arc, or boring language, but reading GRRM was not the case.
The TV series is doing a fantastic job of interpreting the story arc through a different media using the same colorful and intriguing 'language'. I hold the same sentiments as others above in this thread regarding Myrcella's crying. Her story arc is very unique in a fantasy world, and the liberty taken by the TV series did 'cheapen' her to make it more universally accessible at the cost of story.
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On May 08 2012 08:28 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 08:09 Redox wrote:I like the changes from the book. It makes the series more exciting for peole that have read the book, at least it does for me. And lets be honest, some of the passages in the book were rather boring or did not make much sense. Spicing up some of the stuff for a TV adaptation makes sense. On another note, Ygritte is hot. I need to find me a redhead girl now. What books were you reading? The job of an author is to make every single word be congruent and intruiging. Often while reading, our minds wander and we become bored. Sometimes this is because of a boring story arc, or boring language, but reading GRRM was not the case.
If I would start listing the stuff that I did not like or that did not make sense to me it would look like a rant. No need to do that here.
But lets just say I see the books far from perfect.
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On May 08 2012 08:22 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 07:49 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Tommen is only described as a little bitch by the more repulsive characters, he's nine years old or whatever for cripe's sake. Tyrion for one repeatedly describes him as a sweet little boy who is what a little boy should be. By modern standards, Tommen is a perfectly normal boy. By Tyrion's standards, Tommen is a welcome contrast to Joff. By the standards of the general narrative, Tommen is very ill suited to sit the Iron Throne. Not just any throne, the throne of swords that will bleed soft unhardened skin. A boy his age should play at swords with his friends and complain that he's not allowed to go on boar hunts, not hide sniveling behind his mother's skirts, not panic at his + Show Spoiler +. There's no room for weakness when winter is coming.
...Tommen wants to joust and learn swordplay; Cersei keeps denying it because he wants Loras Tyrell to be his teacher and she hates the Tyrells. There's a passage in A Feast For Crows where Tommen is actually jousting with a quintain and Cersei orders him to stop and has one of the Kingsguard, can't remember which one, haul him off back to his chambers because she wants to keep him a pliant little momma's boy. He repeatedly says he wants to squire for Loras Tyrell, Cersei keeps telling him there's time enough for him to grow up into a man because she wants him to squire for one of her puppets and definitely not for Ser Loras. Tommen's story arc in A Feast For Crows is basically him rebelling against Cersei and her smacking him down again and again (by forcing him to beat Pate and making Tommen think he's responsible for Pate being hurt) until she gets outmaneuvered by the High Septon.
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I, for one, _love_ all these changes. Even though I got spoiled by this thread, I think these changes are really spicing things up.
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On May 08 2012 06:10 Terranlover wrote:
i really wonder how they do the reek/lord bolton/ ramsay storyline. it just not going to work if they try to copy it from the books when we can see that reek is theon all the time ~~
Why wouldn't it? In book 5 its super obvious that Theon is Reek; says a bunch of stuff about him being a prince and being ironborn and sacking winterfell before he became Reek. The only "surprise" thing about Reek was that it was actually Ramsay, and since we've never been introduced to Ramsay yet I think it will work just fine.
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I feel a big part of why I enjoyed the books was because the world was so well-realized and vast. I felt the characters' storylines were important, history making events.
This show makes me feel like I'm watching a fantasy soap opera. Which is kinda what the book series is anyway, but it does so much better.
I don't think it's the show creators' fault - I'm starting to believe it's impossible to truly capture the scope that books can achieve within the television format.
+ Show Spoiler +Unless you are a magician named David Simon, and even then you are working with a fundamentally smaller scope
The scene that made me truly realize that this series will never live up to my expectations is the Brienne/Loras fight. In the books, that scene is a grand tournament with bodies scattered on the floor and a crowd of tens of thousands. In the show they are fighting a 1v1 on a beach and Renly is sitting on a bloody wooden crate. After that I cannot help but think throughout every episode that every scene is literally 10x lamer than the book.
Argh, but I'll keep watching... for whatever reason. I just wanted to vent my disappointment.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rVoIg.jpg)
