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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 08 2012 02:17 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 02:04 DeepElemBlues wrote:people whining about shit that hasn't happened? jon snow won't kill qhorin? or he will kill qhorin but to save ygritte? what i meant was that probably they will hook back up with the rest of the scouting party and get caught by the wildlings and rattleshirt or someone will want to kill ygritte for 'betraying' the free folk for the crows. jon will jump up and say no im with you and then fight with qhorin, instead of it being qhorin's plan. which would disappoint me. not that qhorin will want to kill ygritte and jon will have to kill qhorin to save her. Maybe you shouldn't expect the HBO series ADAPTATION of the novels to be page for page what is in the books. The story is cohesive and engaging , the characters are well played and the settings are excellent. If all you are going to do is compare every episode to the book then I doubt you are going to have any time left to actually just sit back and enjoy a TV SHOW.
i dont expect it to be page for page, and i dont spend all or even 5% of my time thinking about the series comparing how it synchs up with the books. and im enjoying the show very much, except i wish each segment would be just a little bit longer, but i understand why it can't be.
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On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:
You should probably stop watching the show if you are just going to lash out when it's not page for page what happens in the book.
?
That's weird. I make a comment on the most deviating episode of the entire series as of yet and choose to focus on one detail. Would that not mean i'm fine with them changing the pace/style of the narrative in general? So many things differ and i don't complain, no mention from me about stolen dragons or missing characters. But taking this cheap cop-out route of showing a "just another victim" portrayal of a female character is terrible and unmotivated. Martins female characters are what makes his work stand out from the norm in the fantasy genre and indeed what keeps me and many others reading.
This was most likely done because it's "easier to quickly understand" - a little girl crying as she's taken off is expected to do so. Would look weird if she didn't.
Well it's cheapening, it's insulting to the viewers and it's wrong. She didn't cry, Tommen did. The distinction is fucking important.
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God damn. I can't wait to see RAMSAY BOLTON/SNOW. One of the most badass and psychotic villains ever. They better make him extra crazy in the show. IMO he's even more sadistic and cruel than Joffrey.
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On May 08 2012 05:14 Drowsy wrote:
God damn. I can't wait to see RAMSAY BOLTON/SNOW. One of the most badass and psychotic villains ever. They better make him extra crazy in the show. IMO he's even more sadistic and cruel than Joffrey.
To be honest I don't like that character very much. Ramsay is just evil for evil's sake and seems to have no other character trait besides that. He does evil, twisted things because he likes doing them. The end. It's just.. kind of bland. I really prefer the kind of evil, twisted things coming from Joffrey or Theon.
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On May 08 2012 05:14 Drowsy wrote:
God damn. I can't wait to see RAMSAY BOLTON/SNOW. One of the most badass and psychotic villains ever. They better make him extra crazy in the show. IMO he's even more sadistic and cruel than Joffrey.
Only because Joffrey was still a petulant child. I always thought of Ramsay as a more intelligent, more mature Joffrey. They have the same sadistic urges but Joffrey is unable to think past his immediate reaction while Ramsay is always thinking one step ahead of his enemies.
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On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 03:58 Thrill wrote:
Worst bullshit ever. There are many things they change that it's possible to find an explanation for by remembering the demand for strengthening the much shorter narrative.
"The girl never wept. Young as she was, Myrcella Baratheon was a princess born." "When the time came to part, it was Prince Tommen who criend, and Myrcella who gave him comfort."
What could possibly be the reason for changing this to 'poor, crying little princess being shipped off'? Worst low of the series yet. Really fucking bad, completely compromises the original work. I Also I hope you realize that GRRM is working very closely with the writers, especially when it comes to the script. To ADAPT his story to fit into the style that it takes to make a compelling television series. George has worked in television before so he knows that things will need to be changed and reworked while still trying to maintain the integrity of whats important.
That's actually a misconception. GRRM does NOT work closely with the writers on each individual episode and according to interviews with him, there are many episodes that he never sees the results until they are done. He does write one episode a season, and the writers have him as a resource, but ultimately it is David and Dan who have the final call whether Martin likes it or not.
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i really wonder how they do the reek/lord bolton/ ramsay storyline. it just not going to work if they try to copy it from the books when we can see that reek is theon all the time ~~
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On May 08 2012 04:47 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:
You should probably stop watching the show if you are just going to lash out when it's not page for page what happens in the book. ? That's weird. I make a comment on the most deviating episode of the entire series as of yet and choose to focus on one detail. Would that not mean i'm fine with them changing the pace/style of the narrative in general? So many things differ and i don't complain, no mention from me about stolen dragons or missing characters. But taking this cheap cop-out route of showing a "just another victim" portrayal of a female character is terrible and unmotivated. Martins female characters are what makes his work stand out from the norm in the fantasy genre and indeed what keeps me and many others reading. This was most likely done because it's "easier to quickly understand" - a little girl crying as she's taken off is expected to do so. Would look weird if she didn't. Well it's cheapening, it's insulting to the viewers and it's wrong. She didn't cry, Tommen did. The distinction is fucking important.
It's growing old seeing all these so-called fans and their completely over-the-top outrage over mere details. You're up in arms over a change that 90% of the books' readers probably didn't even notice or remember, and of those that did, another 99% probably didn't care. "completely compromises the original work" ... get over yourself.
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On May 08 2012 04:22 GeorgeForeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 03:58 Thrill wrote:
Worst bullshit ever. There are many things they change that it's possible to find an explanation for by remembering the demand for strengthening the much shorter narrative.
"The girl never wept. Young as she was, Myrcella Baratheon was a princess born." "When the time came to part, it was Prince Tommen who criend, and Myrcella who gave him comfort."
What could possibly be the reason for changing this to 'poor, crying little princess being shipped off'? Worst low of the series yet. Really fucking bad, completely compromises the original work. Now THIS is some high-quality trolling. Well done, sir! I took it seriously right up to the last word. :-) As a really big fan of the books, I think the best way to take the HBO adaptation is as a retelling of the story from a different storyteller. In much the same way you could hear different versions of a folk tale depending on who was telling it (or which time they were telling it), this is just a different telling of the Song of Ice and Fire. Some details are different, but the characters are generally the same, and the major events aren't going to be changed. Thinking about Bran/Theon's story, I'm guessing it'll be Dagmar who suggets the Miller's boys. (I hope it's not Theon's idea.) As for Jon, I imagine he and his "captive" will be caught by Rattleshirt, and to keep him alive, Yggritte will claim him to be a traitor. When they're find Qhorin, Rattleshirt, who won't believe this, will make John kill them. While they're dueling, Half-Hand will convince John to kill him and continue to play the ruse. So they'll end up in the same spot.
I really would prefer Jon regrouped with Qhorin with captured Ygritte and they got back to the original story. I felt it being Qhorin's idea was vital to Jon's reason for joining the wildlings and everything after. But Myrcella crying verse not crying is just an arbitrary complaint. There is no reason to change it besides it might be hard to get the idea of her being strong by not crying across, but there is no reason at all for thinking this could ruin her character or the story.
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On May 08 2012 06:10 Terranlover wrote:
i really wonder how they do the reek/lord bolton/ ramsay storyline. it just not going to work if they try to copy it from the books when we can see that reek is theon all the time ~~
I was wondering the same while I read the books...
Same thing about Barristan Selmy, though I guess most people wont recognize him as he has only have had a minor part in the show.
Maybe they're going to give Theon a complete make-over, really hiding that it's him...
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Latest episode, Daenerys has her dragons stolen - why can I not remember this from the books, what happens next?
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On May 08 2012 05:31 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 05:14 Drowsy wrote:
God damn. I can't wait to see RAMSAY BOLTON/SNOW. One of the most badass and psychotic villains ever. They better make him extra crazy in the show. IMO he's even more sadistic and cruel than Joffrey. To be honest I don't like that character very much. Ramsay is just evil for evil's sake and seems to have no other character trait besides that. He does evil, twisted things because he likes doing them. The end. It's just.. kind of bland. I really prefer the kind of evil, twisted things coming from Joffrey or Theon.
I disagree...as far as evil goes I prefer Ramsay although Tywin and Joffrey are better characters overall. Theres something about the pure psycho evil of Ramsay that other villains in the book don't have, at least to me. His presence in every chapter and interactions with any other character just send a chill through your spine.
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On May 08 2012 06:16 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:47 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:
You should probably stop watching the show if you are just going to lash out when it's not page for page what happens in the book. ? That's weird. I make a comment on the most deviating episode of the entire series as of yet and choose to focus on one detail. Would that not mean i'm fine with them changing the pace/style of the narrative in general? So many things differ and i don't complain, no mention from me about stolen dragons or missing characters. But taking this cheap cop-out route of showing a "just another victim" portrayal of a female character is terrible and unmotivated. Martins female characters are what makes his work stand out from the norm in the fantasy genre and indeed what keeps me and many others reading. This was most likely done because it's "easier to quickly understand" - a little girl crying as she's taken off is expected to do so. Would look weird if she didn't. Well it's cheapening, it's insulting to the viewers and it's wrong. She didn't cry, Tommen did. The distinction is fucking important. It's growing old seeing all these so-called fans and their completely over-the-top outrage over mere details. You're up in arms over a change that 90% of the books' readers probably didn't even notice or remember, and of those that did, another 99% probably didn't care. "completely compromises the original work" ... get over yourself.
What do i care what the majority thinks in this matter? It obviously mattered to me and in line with the discussion of this thread i voiced my opinion. Myrcella not crying was one of my top 10 moments from the books all together, not many will agree with me on this but i know of at least some.
Why do i react so strongly? Because it was completely unnecessary. I doubt much discussion even preceded this decision. It would have taken them ten extra minutes of thinking to come up with a way of not having to show a scene in complete contrast with the book. I don't think they've ever directly contradicted the books before - changed/replaced things, yes - but never just taken a scene and reversed it.
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On May 08 2012 06:24 icclown wrote:
Latest episode, Daenerys has her dragons stolen - why can I not remember this from the books, what happens next?
I don't remember that. I thought she fled Xaro's palace and went to the House of the Undying, where for some reason or another her dragon torched some warlocks or something weird. I don't even remember -- Dany was so boring in book 2.
The only important thing to happen to Dany is visions of Rhaegar. Season 1 decided not to show Ned's dream.
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On May 08 2012 06:28 antelope591 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 05:31 Conti wrote:On May 08 2012 05:14 Drowsy wrote:
God damn. I can't wait to see RAMSAY BOLTON/SNOW. One of the most badass and psychotic villains ever. They better make him extra crazy in the show. IMO he's even more sadistic and cruel than Joffrey. To be honest I don't like that character very much. Ramsay is just evil for evil's sake and seems to have no other character trait besides that. He does evil, twisted things because he likes doing them. The end. It's just.. kind of bland. I really prefer the kind of evil, twisted things coming from Joffrey or Theon. I disagree...as far as evil goes I prefer Ramsay although Tywin and Joffrey are better characters overall. Theres something about the pure psycho evil of Ramsay that other villains in the book don't have, at least to me. His presence in every chapter and interactions with any other character just send a chill through your spine.
The Reek chapters sent chills through my spine, too, but for an entirely different reason: We all hated Theon with a passion, and for good reason. He fucked up so badly that we wished him all the worst things we could imagine.. and then we get chapters describing exactly that in great detail. And I had chills down my spine because I realized that even Theon does not deserve to be in the hands of that batshit insane guy. I think that's pretty much the reason for Ramsay's existence, and I think it's pretty genius.
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On May 08 2012 05:31 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 05:14 Drowsy wrote:
God damn. I can't wait to see RAMSAY BOLTON/SNOW. One of the most badass and psychotic villains ever. They better make him extra crazy in the show. IMO he's even more sadistic and cruel than Joffrey. To be honest I don't like that character very much. Ramsay is just evil for evil's sake and seems to have no other character trait besides that. He does evil, twisted things because he likes doing them. The end. It's just.. kind of bland. I really prefer the kind of evil, twisted things coming from Joffrey or Theon.
Even though Euron hasn't received as much development I think he is probably my most favorite "evil" character. He has the Ramsay quality where he will do anything and not care but is also very conniving.
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I like most changes or at least can deal with them.
Only things i don't like: Ygritte too hot (that was said too much already)
No Meera and Jojen so far although very important
Littlefinger is traveling in high speed.
No they need to make 2 things brilliant: House of the Undying and Blackwater. Then I'm satisfied.
And finally i got to begin to show my true face :D
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On May 08 2012 06:31 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 06:16 Shockk wrote:On May 08 2012 04:47 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:
You should probably stop watching the show if you are just going to lash out when it's not page for page what happens in the book. ? That's weird. I make a comment on the most deviating episode of the entire series as of yet and choose to focus on one detail. Would that not mean i'm fine with them changing the pace/style of the narrative in general? So many things differ and i don't complain, no mention from me about stolen dragons or missing characters. But taking this cheap cop-out route of showing a "just another victim" portrayal of a female character is terrible and unmotivated. Martins female characters are what makes his work stand out from the norm in the fantasy genre and indeed what keeps me and many others reading. This was most likely done because it's "easier to quickly understand" - a little girl crying as she's taken off is expected to do so. Would look weird if she didn't. Well it's cheapening, it's insulting to the viewers and it's wrong. She didn't cry, Tommen did. The distinction is fucking important. It's growing old seeing all these so-called fans and their completely over-the-top outrage over mere details. You're up in arms over a change that 90% of the books' readers probably didn't even notice or remember, and of those that did, another 99% probably didn't care. "completely compromises the original work" ... get over yourself. What do i care what the majority thinks in this matter? It obviously mattered to me and in line with the discussion of this thread i voiced my opinion. Myrcella not crying was one of my top 10 moments from the books all together, not many will agree with me on this but i know of at least some. Why do i react so strongly? Because it was completely unnecessary. I doubt much discussion even preceded this decision. It would have taken them ten extra minutes of thinking to come up with a way of not having to show a scene in complete contrast with the book. I don't think they've ever directly contradicted the books before - changed/replaced things, yes - but never just taken a scene and reversed it.
From what I can understand you see this scene as (in the books) Myrcella has a strong adult mind and was strong and would not cry - but in the books it IS Myrcella was an older sister who knew her younger brother was upset and comforted him, that is not to say she did not cry on the trip at all, merely that she comforted her brother. Even if it were either of these, the show does not show does not go that far in having her shown as very sad. You believe the book is on one extreme and the show is on the opposite extreme when in reality the two are very close to the center.
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On May 08 2012 06:49 Clegane wrote:
I like most changes or at least can deal with them.
Only things i don't like: Ygritte too hot (that was said too much already)
No Meera and Jojen so far although very important
Littlefinger is traveling in high speed.
No they need to make 2 things brilliant: House of the Undying and Blackwater. Then I'm satisfied.
And finally i got to begin to show my true face :D
Ygritte's too damn hawt! It would be so much more trustworthy if she was at least a little bit ugly!
Otherwise, I like the changes from book to tv, most of it makes the story seem legit :D
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On May 08 2012 07:01 Sprungjeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 06:31 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 06:16 Shockk wrote:On May 08 2012 04:47 Thrill wrote:On May 08 2012 04:04 Leth0 wrote:
You should probably stop watching the show if you are just going to lash out when it's not page for page what happens in the book. ? That's weird. I make a comment on the most deviating episode of the entire series as of yet and choose to focus on one detail. Would that not mean i'm fine with them changing the pace/style of the narrative in general? So many things differ and i don't complain, no mention from me about stolen dragons or missing characters. But taking this cheap cop-out route of showing a "just another victim" portrayal of a female character is terrible and unmotivated. Martins female characters are what makes his work stand out from the norm in the fantasy genre and indeed what keeps me and many others reading. This was most likely done because it's "easier to quickly understand" - a little girl crying as she's taken off is expected to do so. Would look weird if she didn't. Well it's cheapening, it's insulting to the viewers and it's wrong. She didn't cry, Tommen did. The distinction is fucking important. It's growing old seeing all these so-called fans and their completely over-the-top outrage over mere details. You're up in arms over a change that 90% of the books' readers probably didn't even notice or remember, and of those that did, another 99% probably didn't care. "completely compromises the original work" ... get over yourself. What do i care what the majority thinks in this matter? It obviously mattered to me and in line with the discussion of this thread i voiced my opinion. Myrcella not crying was one of my top 10 moments from the books all together, not many will agree with me on this but i know of at least some. Why do i react so strongly? Because it was completely unnecessary. I doubt much discussion even preceded this decision. It would have taken them ten extra minutes of thinking to come up with a way of not having to show a scene in complete contrast with the book. I don't think they've ever directly contradicted the books before - changed/replaced things, yes - but never just taken a scene and reversed it. From what I can understand you see this scene as (in the books) Myrcella has a strong adult mind and was strong and would not cry - but in the books it IS Myrcella was an older sister who knew her younger brother was upset and comforted him, that is not to say she did not cry on the trip at all, merely that she comforted her brother. Even if it were either of these, the show does not show does not go that far in having her shown as very sad. You believe the book is on one extreme and the show is on the opposite extreme when in reality the two are very close to the center.
No, i don't give a shit about Myrcella, she's a non-character, in the books and in the series alike. What i do care about is the stereotypical nature of the current narrative in visual media. Clashing with it is always a good thing and even if you don't take every battle - don't change what's originally a good scene and make it the worst possible representation of a departing princess.
"Femininity" is portrayed as a purely negative thing throughout the entire books. Yet strangely, the female characters are neither useless nor entirely masculine. The producers just gave Myrcella a feminine trait for no reason, She doesn't deserve better, but the overall production does.
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EPT
