[TV] The Walking Dead - Page 300
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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book. | ||
eTcetRa
Australia822 Posts
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
On February 18 2013 11:04 Mandalor28 wrote: I bet Rick isn't sleeping at all and that is what is causing the hallucinations. EDIT: Question: What series is worse about killing off characters, The Walking Dead or Game of Thrones (regardless that Game of Thrones has a larger pool of characters). In Game of Thrones, just about every character belonging to a noble house has at least have some involvement in an intricate web of politics. So when someone dies in GoT, it sends a ripple throughout Westeros because the game of thrones either lost a player or a pawn. Walking Dead deaths can be just as shocking, but it's hard for them to have the same effect on the storyline as GoT since there's not much politics involved. | ||
sths
Australia192 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
On February 12 2013 11:50 EleanorRIgby wrote: i doubt that's the last we see of merle and daryl, my guess is when the governer assaults the prison to try and take over the brothers are gonna swoop in and save the day. Also i don't understand why some people are mad at daryl for leaving, merle is blood and you don't leave blood behind. yea i knew they were gonna come back and save the day, merle loves this kinda shit lol. and lol the gov with a fucking scoped aug but couldn't hit shit | ||
BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On February 18 2013 14:51 Resent wrote: Not even death could stop Lori from wasting screentime Remember back in diablo 2 when you fight diablo he says "Not even death can save you from me." Considering everything in TWD universe is dead and trying to eat you, maybe it's based off d2's hell and lori is diablo. | ||
Depetrify
978 Posts
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TheExile19
513 Posts
On February 18 2013 14:11 Xivsa wrote: Narrative weight. So the ideal episode for you is all drama, all the time? Andrea is practically an incarnation of drama writ large and baffling, as you point out, but that's a detriment apparently. The episode had the group struggling to get by without Rick, Rick struggling to get by, Daryl and Merle touching on their childhood and rejoining the gang, and Hershel hopping around trying to keep everyone's shit together for them. Andrea's role was mostly to serve up the governor misdirecting us before launching his assault on the prison. And the episode delivered on the action end as well. Rick and Glenn will sort themselves out. While Rick especially is waxing melodramatically, neither are damaging to the show. Andrea can be described as baffling, but at least it's somewhat consistent stretching back to Shane. She's in Woodbury for a variety of reasons - her old group abandoned her, she really wants to believe there's a future for the town as shown by her speeches last episode, and I guess the weird connection she has with the governor. You're not really criticizing the episode, but explaining some of the different plot strands in your post. - I want "all drama, all the time"? what? this show is consistently at its worst when it's steeped in what serves as character drama, but the growing issue is that as rick's group becomes more and more adept at killing zombies and ekeing out an existence, there is no choice but to slowly shift the focus further inward towards the character motivations at play, and what becomes more and more clear every episode is that there are no real characters that can carry this series. they're just people, often boring people, stuck in a zombie apocalypse and it makes launching any serious character arcs impossible. that's before you get into how often the writing and direction from scene to scene undermines the ability to take what we do get to see seriously. take the continuing glenn drama for example, specifically the scene with herschel outside the prison. in this episode, glenn and the actor playing him are given the lines and the position of a silly child arguing with his elder. at absolutely no point are we allowed to imagine that glenn will actually go out and make good on his impotent rage, because at the beginning of the scene he explicitly tells herschel he won't. we then go on to a few minutes of utterly pointless restatements of the last episode: glenn is mad. herschel is disapproving. later, we get to see the exact same point-by-point recreation between glenn and maggie, except that maggie tells glenn what a shithead he's being, and it's fairly clear that the show agrees with her. okay, I guess glenn's just randomly an asshole, I guess it helps him show leadership qualities and pretend there's something going on here. - if you can't see that andrea drama is categorically empty drama, I don't really know what to say. "baffling" also isn't a positive character trait, and its consistency of being negative doesn't make it positive. if she was stupid to prove a point, like the show cared one way or the other, it'd be different but it's not, the writers just think we need someone to humanize the governor who is batshit crazypants and no amount of andrea stockholm syndrome changes that. - tepid discussion and glenn being mad isn't "struggling to get by". almost nothing happened this episode, which I am beginning to suspect is an issue that's endemic to the comic main plot where I'm just going to assume that nothing happening to spin out the main plot and sell more issues is a major factor. daryl and merle was cool, but predictable, and honestly we're still seeing some retention of unnecessary drama in that daryl didn't just put a bolt in merle's face when he was menacing relative innocents. rick did nothing all episode, and I mean almost literally nothing. we, the audience, already knew he was crazy and seeing lori...the only thing that happened of any import that originated from him was telling herschel, and that went absolutely nowhere as well. - not...criticizing? wow. I guess I need to start burning robert kirkman in effigy. just curious, when I go point by point and say "rick was boring because..." "glenn was mad but was still boring and stupid because..." and you don't actively disagree with me, you just say I'm summing up the show, have you internalized how awful these characters are while just asking me to deal with it? because as the action gets more standard and keeps slowing down, it is impossible for me to deal with it without making obnoxiously long posts on forums for the purpose of catharsis and shared mocking. | ||
freeshooter
United States477 Posts
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
On February 18 2013 15:13 eTcetRa wrote: Is anyone able to summarise the last episode (in spoilers) for me please? I'm unable to watch them for another two weeks when I get my home internet back! Appreciated if possible! <3 + Show Spoiler + Rick is still crazy, finally tells the old guy about it. Glen is going down the same path as Shane and Rick letting his rage control his actions. Glen goes off to do something by himself, whatever it is its pointless. Governor attacks prison releases van full of zombies 20~. Only the redneck inmate and one Governor goonie die. Merle and Daryl come back to save Rick/Prison in nick of time. Glen comes back at the same time as well, he saves old guy. Nothing is wrapped up, only more loose ends. | ||
Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On February 18 2013 15:42 sths wrote: Does anyone else find it hilarious that inmate dude got a few lines this episode and then gets head shot.... its like a reoccuring theme. I hope cutty doesn't get a lot of screen time. I don't want him to get shot. I want him to open up a gym and train young carl on the art of boxing. +1 for The Wire reference. Shame TWD isn't even a fraction as good as that show though... | ||
patronage
Iraq123 Posts
I thought season 3 episode 10 was a really good episode 9/10 for me. | ||
AllHailTheDead
United States418 Posts
On February 18 2013 14:24 Nabes wrote: I thought about the opposite eye for a second but then you see him holding a match up to his eye, presumably to cauterize his eye which in fact you would need a mirror to do properly. ya made me go wtf to at first but then I realized hes looking into a mirror | ||
Zeo1990
United States132 Posts
COMIC SPOILERS + Show Spoiler + The comic's attack was a full out assault with a fucking TANK and like 50 dudes, but the group was actually able to hold them off aside from only get a few bullet injuries (only one gets grazed but Rick gets shot bad [again] and needed medical attention), mainly due to Andrea actually being there and NOT being dumb, sniping at them like a boss. The other thing was until the Governor got really pissed/crazy they wanted to not damage the fences of the prison since they wanted to take it for themselves. So in general they held off the first attack rather well unlike this episode...GOD i wish comic Andrea was in this she so awesome compared to this version Just seems to me like the Governor didn't finish them off or at least try and kill Glen as he drove past them because the script told him not to. | ||
Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
Half trained civilians vs attacking zombies hit percentage: ~ 97% (headshots) throughout the 3 seasons That same group vs para-military group (everyone standing in one place): ~0.02% hit rate (either way) | ||
TheExile19
513 Posts
On February 18 2013 17:56 Zeo1990 wrote: Was it just me or was the Governor this episode simultaneously competent and incompetent with his attack? I mean the way that shootout went he probably could have finished everyone off pretty easily. (Obviously that would end the show so i know it wouldn't. happen but it still seems like sloppy writing). I mean with the Governor's attack in the comic there's a better reason why they retreated: COMIC SPOILERS + Show Spoiler + The comic's attack was a full out assault with a fucking TANK and like 50 dudes, but the group was actually able to hold them off aside from only get a few bullet injuries (only one gets grazed but Rick gets shot bad [again] and needed medical attention), mainly due to Andrea actually being there and NOT being dumb, sniping at them like a boss. The other thing was until the Governor got really pissed/crazy they wanted to not damage the fences of the prison since they wanted to take it for themselves. So in general they held off the first attack rather well unlike this episode...GOD i wish comic Andrea was in this she so awesome compared to this version Just seems to me like the Governor didn't finish them off or at least try and kill Glen as he drove past them because the script told him not to. pretty hard to label this raid anything but incompetent when you: - get one of your men inside the prison onto one of the guard towers (seems like a waste to possess an incredible tactical advantage like that and only use one man...) only to have him be shot - waste other incredible circumstances (rick outside the walls, rick being attacked by zombies, rick and the dixons fighting zombies) to not shoot your enemy - kill the one man in the prison least likely to fight - waste hundreds of rounds for one kill I mean, the governor is very clearly insane in the show and I don't find nitpicking on this level to be palatable, but I agree in that there has to be some sort of reason why he wouldn't have capitalized on the pants-down nature of rick's group (herschel/rick in the open, maggie running into the open with guns) instead of wasting time chewing scenery and shooting his AUG into the air. if it's a shock-and-awe terror strategy, why the shit couldn't we have had a conversation between the governor and martinez telling us so after the festivities wrapped up? it's almost certainly going to be one of those things where the full intent is revealed next episode, TWD does that all the time and it's...annoying. | ||
NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
I agree that Rick gets too much screentime just being crazy, even though I think it should get screentime, not as much would be good. A lot of things could actually be solved in conversations and made more interesting instead of always being image heavy on all the stuff. Nonetheless I completely disagree that its too slow moving or not moving at all. At some point things don't always happen next to each other and not always you get progress in such a scenario. As you said (I think it was you?) those are normal people caught in an apocalypse, doesn't make the characters especially exiting, but makes the show more believable and realistic. I perfectly can watch it and believe that lots of things happening there (about group-dynamics) do happen like that or would happen like that. Not all decisions are made rational and the dialogues between Merle/Daryll for example are partly very good. Just to quote "It might be me walking away, but its once again you leaving" ... was a very good moment. I think people are too eager to compare characters between shows when it doesn't fit. Game of Thrones obviously has deeper characters, because it needs to. There are so many connections between them, so many political issues, obviously it goes a lot deeper but there are also a ton more people. How the hell do you want to fit a GoT character-behaviour and grouping into TWD? It doesn't work. All of them are just trying to survive, some groups more sane than others, there's no political discussion, there characters don't need to be INTERESTING in actually having a background all that much, its about their behaviour, interacting and decisions. In that case you are right when you say its slow moving. When you base your show on group dynamics, you better have your plots/subplots MOVE or people will ask for character development in the matter of having more information on them. I bet if you would have constant progress, you wouldn't care if the sole describtion of a character would be "woman, man, man, boy" or if you could write a book around that character. Thats the only problem with the show. They base it on something that they don't constantly update. I bet you would call out Daryll/Merle leaving the group just to return not-worthy of putting into the series, because it basically had NO progress. I would agree at least partly, but I enjoy their argueing, fighting... I enjoy the dialogue. So.... lets say if I were to change TWD not story-wise, but in terms of telling the story, I'd have a lot more conversations and less imagine-heavy stuff. I'd have parts of the group talk about others because to be honest, lets take Axel/Carol conversation for example. If you have him shot after a few words, at least make him ask a relevant question to Carol that relates with the group, let them have a short conversation about a problem, a task or anything like that, but don't let him talk about... whatever it was, thats how unimportant it was. I don't need background on the characters, but I need conversation, I need problems to think about, no riddles, just simple conversations that don't seem unreasonable. | ||
Bash
Finland1533 Posts
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TheExile19
513 Posts
- you keep bringing up daryl/merle, and you're doing that because they have a legitimately interesting relationship that's rooted in a life of shared history, not mere months since the apocalypse. it's the stuff that drama is made of, mostly because daryl and merle represent a very binary sort of "good" and "bad"; this is elevated by the simple fact they are brothers, and yet ended up as such polar opposites. nobody else in TWD has this kind of magnetism in their relationships because of the restriction of the genre and the composition of rick's group. merle can get away with being a total caricature because of how powerful this basic, time-tested storytelling technique, of family at odds, really is. it's certainly not because the show is doing much of anything right. - not sure what "imagine-heavy stuff" is; TWD certainly has conversations, it's that they're almost uniformly fucking dull. I shit my pants when axel got shot because I had been lulled into a stupor by the droning of rick's talk with herschel (herschel is already being overused as character mood generator). I can't form an objective opinion about what constitutes dull conversation, obviously, but I can pretty easily pinpoint why that one was lacking; we all knew rick was seeing ghost lori, and if rick is going to be candid with the group and tell what we've been shown, it needs to be performed in an interesting way. it wasn't, boredom and unintentional humor central. ("I've got stuff out here...") - if you don't like riddles, TWD isn't the show for you. ever since I started engaging this show in any sort of critical fashion, it seems like there's always two or three headscratchers of character and plot motivation every episode. there isn't enough action anymore where you can just watch for that alone, and worse, the zombie kills have become blase. I didn't even blink at the car wheel vs. zombie head conflict. | ||
NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
Basically they killed everyone that could deliver interesting bonds and stories that make up for development in the show. - Andrias got killed - Shane got killed - Lorie died - Dale got killed While I agree that background and bonds make for interesting conversations and story, there's just no way to include it into the show right now. People with bonds right now are basically Hershell & family and Rick and his son. All others are either strangers or have no story at all. Ofcourse thats no good ground to make a drama-show out of, but I don't think that it would be easy to change. If you put more relations and background story with creating characters (from the start obviously) the show will look like its all setup, this way its more interesting but doesn't look right. The way its now does kind of look like its random and uninteresting even though more realistic, but its less enjoyable. Both options are bad, but the latter seems superior and I think could be dealt with with good writing. I for my part would like to see the black guy with his son from season 1 come back, having them share stories but you will have another side-plot then. All relations we got now, Maggie/Glenn ... Carol/Axel (more or less.... no matter anymore) Carl/that girl... are uninteresting with Maggie and Glenn at least being a bit interesting to me, as they share pain and their relationship also suffers from it, real world problems. As you said, the basics between Daryll and Merle make it interesting, not even explaining their story, its just the pure basic understanding that they know each other and have a past, adding they are brothers already makes every decision so much harder and more complex, so you hit the nail on the head there, but my question to you is: what would you change? We cannot have a character return, nor do we get pasts and stories when introducing new characters. Tyreese seems to be a likeable, good guy and he can potentially be introduced with a good story, but does it make him interesting? I don't know. I liked the Shane/Rick conflict, because, as you pointed out they also had a past and their constant conflicts and progress made it reasonable and interesting to watch. Now we are left with tons of characters that have no real relation other than surviving together, so I can see your point that its not very catchy, but to me, as long as there are other groups, conversation and dynamics involved, its still good to watch. I still disagree with the Glenn thing though :p! I think he behaves like a person that has honest feelings towards his/her partner. He wants revenge and the feelings prevent reasonable and calm thinking, so he does dumb stuff. | ||
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