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On July 17 2010 16:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
It's not a mindfuck, it just had an "intricate" plot. It's kind of depressing that the simple minded action movies have made any movie with a detailed plot fall into the "mindfuck" category cause people can't handle complexity :\
Response is quite spoiler heavy.
+ Show Spoiler +I think any movie where people enter someone else's dreams while running from projections of the dreamer's subconscious suspicions that the dreamer is actually dreaming in order to plant an idea leading to the dreamer making real-life choices based upon this... classifies as a mindfuck.
It doesn't have to be about "OMG it turns out he's actually dead lololol!" There is indeed an intricate plot, but the actual material that the plot is centered around, delving into something as personal as someone's very own mind, is a very powerful subject. Yes, it was very well laid out such that you understand a lot of what is going on, but what you are understanding is still crazy as hell.
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On July 17 2010 15:49 Xeris wrote:It was good, but overhyped IMO. I thought it was too long and I actually got bored halfway through, and I can't ever recall a movie in which I actually got bored in the theater. + Show Spoiler +
I don't understand how people are saying it was a mind fuck? What was mind fucking about it? Literally everything was clearly laid out and explained. The only ambiguity in the movie at all was the end - and I thought that was the worst part. It seemed so forced and pretentious on the part of Nolan that I just couldn't take it seriously.
I saw that shit coming from a mile away and I was really hoping he wouldn't go there. That was like the rat in the Departed all over again, it bugged the hell out of me. I would have liked it a lot better if there was a different ending, maybe he wakes up with his wife and kids to find out that actually the entire movie was just a crazy dream, that would've been fun. But nope, we get the annoying symbolism, the top spinning.. "OMG IS IT GONNA FALL, IS THIS REAL?!?!?!!?!!!!" ... womp womp
The best thing about the movie was Cobb's inner conflict, and the inception idea at all. The rest of it was a TON of filler (and by ton I mean about 2 hours, because we only spend about 30 minutes actually focusing on Cobb even though I feel like he's supposed to be the focal point) and some pretty uninteresting action sequences.
And I also thought they were getting needlessly complex just for the sake of trying to make the audience go "OMG WOW WHATS HAPPENINGGGGGGGGGG" (which obviously happened)... They go into a dream, then go into another dream, then go into a dream of a guy who's dreaming and pretending to be another guy, etc ... was all this really necessary?
Why was that Russian guy the only person who could just dopplegang someone else? Couldn't someone have just dopplegang'd the guy's dad from the beginning, given that end lecture, and skipped the whole fucking 1.5 hours in between point A to point B? You really only needed to plant that idea (accomplished right as they went into the dream), then have someone pretend to be the dad to give that last recognition, and bam.. problem solved.
Overall, meh.. I liked it but I was just bummed out about all the hype. This is avatar all over again for me.
+ Show Spoiler +Well I already explained your questioning of it being a mindfuck in a post a few minutes ago.
They needed 2 hours to settle Cobb's inner conflict. His inner conflict was with his dreams and his past with his wife. In order to fully confront that conflict, he needed to delve deeper into dreams and then go into limbo. Instead of just creating a movie about Cobb solving ONLY his inner conflicts, Nolan threw in a great plot to get to the point of limbo where Cobb could resolve his conflicts. It would be boring just to see Cobb go through layers of dreams without any action or secondary goal.
It wasn't even that complex... They went into a guy's dream who dreamt about dreaming. That's not hard to follow. I've felt like everyone I've read who watched the movie had an idea of what was happening. That doesn't speak for everyone, but it wasn't "needlessly complex". The whole idea of inception is complex and many knew that going into the movie.
The Russian guy was the only one who was skilled in doppelganging... That was revealed I believe when they spoke. Everyone had their own skills.. I don't think they could have doppelganged Fischer's father from the beginning. Fischer had to have projected him in order to believe it. The plan was a 3 layer dream so that they could plant the idea deep. His father, even though they didn't have a great relationship, was obviously important to him. I doubt they could have doppelganged him... They had to plant the idea deep, so they devised a plot where he would go deep into his dreams to see his father. If they did it at the beginning, Fischer would have known that they were performing inception.
I don't think it was overhyped at all. I didn't really see much hype for it aside from the usual for a movie. It wasn't as hyped as Avatar or Grown-Ups, which I've yet to see. Avatar was still good, but I agree it was overhyped.
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On July 17 2010 16:34 Fatmatt2000 wrote:Question about the top, kinda long + Show Spoiler +Here is my problem with the top as a totem:
The whole point of a totem is to make an object with a unique characteristic known only to you, this way nobody else will be able to recreate the totem and trick you into thinking you are in the real world.
It was fairly well known that the top was Leo's totem throughout the movie. The top would spin forever in the dream world and fall in the real one, this was the secret of the top and known only to leo. If somebody were to recreate this top, logically they would create a top that falls, because that's what tops do. This defeats the whole purpose of the totem for Leo as pretty much anyone could replicate the top, as the weird thing about it was that it kept spinning.
The top behaves normally in the real world, and is unique in the dream, while both the bishop and the die would behave oddly in the real world signaling their bearers that they are currently grounded in reality. The top seems completely backwards and unusable as a totem to keep him grounded (possibly demonstrating that the whole thing is some dream of leo's?).
Am I missing something or did this seem weird to anyone else?
I actually had the same question. I was wondering the same thing and was getting at same sort of question in an earlier post, but nobody really acknowledged it.
+ Show Spoiler +It seems the top really is backwards. If someone else was making the dream, wouldn't they make a top that would fall over, and therefore Cobb would have a top that would fall over in his dream state?
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Baa?21242 Posts
On July 17 2010 16:41 Triscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 16:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
It's not a mindfuck, it just had an "intricate" plot. It's kind of depressing that the simple minded action movies have made any movie with a detailed plot fall into the "mindfuck" category cause people can't handle complexity :\ Response is quite spoiler heavy. + Show Spoiler +I think any movie where people enter someone else's dreams while running from projections of the dreamer's subconscious suspicions that the dreamer is actually dreaming in order to plant an idea leading to the dreamer making real-life choices based upon this... classifies as a mindfuck.
It doesn't have to be about "OMG it turns out he's actually dead lololol!" There is indeed an intricate plot, but the actual material that the plot is centered around, delving into something as personal as someone's very own mind, is a very powerful subject. Yes, it was very well laid out such that you understand a lot of what is going on, but what you are understanding is still crazy as hell.
I don't consider "OMG it turns out he's actually dead lololol!" a mindfuck either, that's just a twist. I would say a mindfuck movie would have to be something that is "confusing" and "doesn't make sense."
Movies like the one you described, such as Inception, I would probably is more "provocative" instead of mindfuck, and I don't think the two should be equated. Of course a movie can be both, but I think it's more often that mindfucks are provocative as opposed to most provocatives being mindfucks.
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On July 17 2010 16:46 Triscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 16:34 Fatmatt2000 wrote:Question about the top, kinda long + Show Spoiler +Here is my problem with the top as a totem:
The whole point of a totem is to make an object with a unique characteristic known only to you, this way nobody else will be able to recreate the totem and trick you into thinking you are in the real world.
It was fairly well known that the top was Leo's totem throughout the movie. The top would spin forever in the dream world and fall in the real one, this was the secret of the top and known only to leo. If somebody were to recreate this top, logically they would create a top that falls, because that's what tops do. This defeats the whole purpose of the totem for Leo as pretty much anyone could replicate the top, as the weird thing about it was that it kept spinning.
The top behaves normally in the real world, and is unique in the dream, while both the bishop and the die would behave oddly in the real world signaling their bearers that they are currently grounded in reality. The top seems completely backwards and unusable as a totem to keep him grounded (possibly demonstrating that the whole thing is some dream of leo's?).
Am I missing something or did this seem weird to anyone else? I actually had the same question. I was wondering the same thing and was getting at same sort of question in an earlier post, but nobody really acknowledged it. + Show Spoiler +It seems the top really is backwards. If someone else was making the dream, wouldn't they make a top that would fall over, and therefore Cobb would have a top that would fall over in his dream state?
+ Show Spoiler +That's really hard to decipher but I would think that it has something to do with the fact that Cobb has already experienced limbo. I think he'd be able to control himself better, but we still wouldn't know whether he'd alter the totem. I really think the totem wasn't well thought upon. It definitely raises a lot of doubt and discrepancies, but that's what makes this movie great.
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On July 17 2010 16:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I don't consider "OMG it turns out he's actually dead lololol!" a mindfuck either, that's just a twist. I would say a mindfuck movie would have to be something that is "confusing" and "doesn't make sense."
That's fair enough, I guess we just have a difference of nomenclature. I think of movies that are "confusing" and "don't make sense" as just not very well thought out, or just bad movies in general.
But I guess it's no use arguing about, it's really just semantics.
+ Show Spoiler +Also what I mean about the totem is... Is it the individual people that enter the dreams that decide what personal effects they have on themselves, or is it the dreamer? Or the architect? If it is someone other than the individual who thinks up Cobb's top, would they not dream up a normal top, and therefore that is what Cobb would have in the dream?
I'm trying hard to make this a coherent idea, it's just not easy, lol.
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Rofl... look at all the + Show Spoiler + tags
im pretty sure that anyone coming to this thread is coming to see other's result, not movie review from a bunch of SC nerds....
anyways, great movie if you like mind-bending logic (reality messing with dreams, and dreams messing with reality at the same time)
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I enjoyed it, it was better than the trailer made it seem. Would recommend.
+ Show Spoiler +There were many moments where I thought Aizen would pop up.
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I just got back from the movie, and it was by far the best I've seen in a long time
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Baa?21242 Posts
On July 17 2010 17:19 Kyuukyuu wrote:
I enjoyed it, it was better than the trailer made it seem. Would recommend.
Really? I thought the trailer was really good. I would say the trailer is as good as the movie was.
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the trailer wasn't very informative or engaging (delibrately, of course), so I didn't think it would be very interesting
however after watching it, it definitely was a very suspenseful movie....all around very well done
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On July 17 2010 17:22 7 wrote:
the trailer wasn't very informative or engaging (delibrately, of course), so I didn't think it would be very interesting
however after watching it, it definitely was a very suspenseful movie....all around very well done
My thoughts exactly
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It was awesome. 'Nuff said? A little of every genre in this film. The storyline/scripting was great. Great director... AHHHH I sound like such a fanboy.
Bottom Line
Go watch it 
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The movie was so so so so so good. I was very impressed.
Also props to DiCaprio for actually getting some acting chops after being the pretty boy in movies forever and being in some really good films lately.
EDIT: I also want to point out that the preview for the new movie Devil came on, which is basically a dinner murder mystery, lights go out and someone gets hurt/dies whodunit, except it's in an elevator. It looked pretty good, and then near the end, the narrator says "A production by M. Night Shyamalan" and then at least 75% of the movie theater groans at the same time. It was awesome.
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It was amazing, it almost felt like a remake of The Matrix, except set in the subconscious instead of cyberspace.
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On July 17 2010 16:46 Triscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2010 16:34 Fatmatt2000 wrote:Question about the top, kinda long + Show Spoiler +Here is my problem with the top as a totem:
The whole point of a totem is to make an object with a unique characteristic known only to you, this way nobody else will be able to recreate the totem and trick you into thinking you are in the real world.
It was fairly well known that the top was Leo's totem throughout the movie. The top would spin forever in the dream world and fall in the real one, this was the secret of the top and known only to leo. If somebody were to recreate this top, logically they would create a top that falls, because that's what tops do. This defeats the whole purpose of the totem for Leo as pretty much anyone could replicate the top, as the weird thing about it was that it kept spinning.
The top behaves normally in the real world, and is unique in the dream, while both the bishop and the die would behave oddly in the real world signaling their bearers that they are currently grounded in reality. The top seems completely backwards and unusable as a totem to keep him grounded (possibly demonstrating that the whole thing is some dream of leo's?).
Am I missing something or did this seem weird to anyone else? I actually had the same question. I was wondering the same thing and was getting at same sort of question in an earlier post, but nobody really acknowledged it. + Show Spoiler +It seems the top really is backwards. If someone else was making the dream, wouldn't they make a top that would fall over, and therefore Cobb would have a top that would fall over in his dream state?
+ Show Spoiler +Well they did mention, that the weight and the feel of the totem also comes into consideration, no one knows how heavy it is or how it feels in his hands. The spinning is part of it, but I still think the weight and feel is why it was a successful totem.
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+ Show Spoiler +Sure it had it's plot holes, (If they're weightless in one dream because they're in free fall in another dream, why aren't they then weightless in their current dream?) but I just didn't care best movie ever
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Goddamn, definitely got to see this...
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ABSOLUTELY EPIC, I JUST QUIT GAMING TO WATCH THIS MOVIE FULL TIME! The next showing is in 15 minutes, so I'm going to jet... You should watch it.
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EPT
