|
On May 01 2016 23:04 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 22:56 Azarkon wrote:On May 01 2016 22:44 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:41 Azarkon wrote:On May 01 2016 22:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:#productionvalue On May 01 2016 22:36 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:34 OuchyDathurts wrote:
IMO Aui is too apprehensive. Artour has killer instinct. If he thinks for a microsecond he can kill you he's going for that kill 100% of the time. If he thinks he can get away with farming something he'll farm it 100% of the time. This leads to insane overwhelming farm and clowning on fools or it leads to a lot of deaths. But even if he's dying he's most likely got way more farm than anyone else because he rides the line so hard. I feel like Aui backs down and pussyfoots around too much right now. Hopefully he'll come around. Autour really sucks at carrying though. You need to kick him out of safe farming spots in order to put him in position to have that killer instinct. And then if he is there, he needs to rein it in. His carry was amazing back in the day. I feel like him and Sumail cover a lot of the same ground as far as styles go so they don't really work together. On Secret I don't think his carry has ever been the problem with the team either time. On Secret, he had a huge problem with the fact that Kuroky usually plays for himself. You saw it in that game where Kuroky didn't sit him and he died over and over. Yeah, but Arteezy was never the problem on Secret. Artour WAS Secret at TI5, he was playing his heart out but he was fighting alone. Last tourney Universe looked terrible but Arteezy played out of his fucking mind. He had the rest of his team help get him farm, of course he was the only one to look as though he was doing well. Secret at that tournament never found a way to both get Arteezy farm and to not lose with the other four. The problem is that Arteezy needs farm to work. He does not play well without farm and will die every team fight when he doesn't get it. That's why teams need to work around him; he has to get farm. Well they ran a lot of SF since that hero was OP and they had arguably the best SF, if not 2nd best SF in the world on their team. The hero required stacks and they did that for him because thats how you play with that hero regardless of who is playing it. It just so happens when you have a SF god and the hero is broken you want to give him every advantage you can. Watch Secrets final game of TI5, he was carrying his team up a cliff through sheer force of will alone. That game fucking hurt the soul, that had to have taken a few years off his life.
He plays the same with every hero after the early game. You'll always see Arteezy on the top of the team in farm because he'll farm by himself in the middle game and his team will move around to make sure he gets to do it. I'm not going to say it's a bad way to play; but it does make Arteezy look as though he's the best on a team every game even though it's the team doing the work.
And I'm not going to say that Secret is bad because they have Arteezy. But they do need to work out who's going to get farm. What I saw from their games during the last tournament was that Arteezy would take farm from EternalEnvy - as he has to, because he's Arteezy - and then EternalEnvy, also a player who needs a lot of farm, would not know how to play without it. But of course, Puppey was playing bad that tournament, so we have to see how they do when Puppey isn't.
|
On May 01 2016 23:06 nanaoei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 22:57 MaCRo.gg wrote:
JW where would you guys rank QO? How much below Miracle, RTZ, Misery? hey macro, i personally watch a lot of QO streams (though those have stopped) as well the majority of spectated games in RTZ and miracle VODS/replays, all in order of least to most frequent and in terms of interest in the play itself. i'd make a comparison like this, sorry if it sounds like nonsense. foreign competitive starcraft players tend to click mighty often and play to their own strengths. korean professional starcraft players try to take it a level further and make the actions count down to the smallest detail. this is not where i'd put QO, but miracle and moreso arteezy are like the korean counterpart, while QO maintains the foreigner level with many glimpses of brilliance, all backed by weaker mechanics overall. pretty much, your ability to stack, watch timers, understand movements in and around mid to jungle to make use of this time, and budgeting time to play off the map are all hallmarks for very special players who get a lot of extra work done. this is all strictly opinion from having watched so many games from each player's perspective. granted, i've only had the pleasure of watching QO's personal stream on CN server, so i don't know how he actually plays and scrims except for what i see on the main stage (admittedly amazing results!). he definitely know his shit, but i don't think we'll see him playing meepo any time soon. the closest thing we've seen him play is a farming alch. miracle = farming and superb fighting as well as timing rtz = knowledge, jungle farm, hero versatility and all around mechanical skill. QO = captaincy (though shared), huge plays all on the back of his teammates, role versatility and very special skill with a handful of specific heroes.
Thanks for the response, gave me some perspective on what to watch for when I watch streams n stuff.
Where does QO seem to lack? Farm optimization? Small hero pool?
In terms of fighting he heavily depends on his teammates to bail him out of situations, but I don't think anymore so than RTZ. Consistency seems like the biggest problem for QO.
|
Artour also did the best on lane dominators like he slayed on OD. He was so much better than everyone else mid that if you gave him a strong laner he was going to roast the poor SOB that had to lane against him so hard the game would be in shambles.
I also feel like something no one ever talks about is RTZ was such hot shit that everyone in every pub camped him mid forever. Same with Sumail, everyone is like here's this wunderkid just camp him mid in ever pub. They both ended up with this spider sense that was absolutely insane, especially Arteezy. He could smell out a gank a mile away and he was so used to it he'd just dodge his way out of it. But now camping 10 heroes mid and roaming are so common everyone is used to it. But way back in the day their ability to sniff shit out, get camped mid, and still crush was pretty dope and I believe was an unsung skill they had.
|
On May 01 2016 23:10 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 23:08 babysimba wrote:On May 01 2016 23:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On May 01 2016 22:51 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:42 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:#productionvalue On May 01 2016 22:36 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:34 OuchyDathurts wrote:
IMO Aui is too apprehensive. Artour has killer instinct. If he thinks for a microsecond he can kill you he's going for that kill 100% of the time. If he thinks he can get away with farming something he'll farm it 100% of the time. This leads to insane overwhelming farm and clowning on fools or it leads to a lot of deaths. But even if he's dying he's most likely got way more farm than anyone else because he rides the line so hard. I feel like Aui backs down and pussyfoots around too much right now. Hopefully he'll come around. Autour really sucks at carrying though. You need to kick him out of safe farming spots in order to put him in position to have that killer instinct. And then if he is there, he needs to rein it in. His carry was amazing back in the day. I feel like him and Sumail cover a lot of the same ground as far as styles go so they don't really work together. On Secret I don't think his carry has ever been the problem with the team either time. It's always the same problem with Artezzy; he's too farm heavy and disrupts better income distribution. It's ok if you just steamroll enemies or if enemies throw back the lead. Much worse if you need to manage space well or maintain fighting condition against a well matched team. Its fine if you have one player that does that, not two. On EG with Sumail there's 2 people doing the same thing. I think this Secret might suit his style the best currently, provided Universe can get back on track, he's been slumping for a few months IMO. If Artezzy plays the true 2, secret will be a better team. Sometimes when Artour farms it's like denying his own team farm and then his team plays 4 on 5. RTZ is a farming mid. That is his premium strength. You forgot how he is considered the best mid once before he even starts the mid farming trend. When he was a newbie, he is a much better player because he plays whatever the team needs. I think this is why teams need new blood, new players are more willing to adapt and have fresh ideas. Veterans that refuse to change their old habits get phased out. Are you not contradicting yourself? He started off a normal tempo controller mid, he switched to a farming mid. He adapted and changed his habits. Hell he literally invented an entire meta and perfected it.
Just because he invented new ideas to play doesn't mean he can't go back to old ideas when the meta calls for it.
|
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
|
On May 01 2016 23:17 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 23:06 nanaoei wrote:On May 01 2016 22:57 MaCRo.gg wrote:
JW where would you guys rank QO? How much below Miracle, RTZ, Misery? hey macro, i personally watch a lot of QO streams (though those have stopped) as well the majority of spectated games in RTZ and miracle VODS/replays, all in order of least to most frequent and in terms of interest in the play itself. i'd make a comparison like this, sorry if it sounds like nonsense. foreign competitive starcraft players tend to click mighty often and play to their own strengths. korean professional starcraft players try to take it a level further and make the actions count down to the smallest detail. this is not where i'd put QO, but miracle and moreso arteezy are like the korean counterpart, while QO maintains the foreigner level with many glimpses of brilliance, all backed by weaker mechanics overall. pretty much, your ability to stack, watch timers, understand movements in and around mid to jungle to make use of this time, and budgeting time to play off the map are all hallmarks for very special players who get a lot of extra work done. this is all strictly opinion from having watched so many games from each player's perspective. granted, i've only had the pleasure of watching QO's personal stream on CN server, so i don't know how he actually plays and scrims except for what i see on the main stage (admittedly amazing results!). he definitely know his shit, but i don't think we'll see him playing meepo any time soon. the closest thing we've seen him play is a farming alch. miracle = farming and superb fighting as well as timing rtz = knowledge, jungle farm, hero versatility and all around mechanical skill. QO = captaincy (though shared), huge plays all on the back of his teammates, role versatility and very special skill with a handful of specific heroes. Thanks for the response, gave me some perspective on what to watch for when I watch streams n stuff. Where does QO seem to lack? Farm optimization? Small hero pool? In terms of fighting he heavily depends on his teammates to bail him out of situations, but I don't think anymore so than RTZ. Consistency seems like the biggest problem for QO.
QO lacks the ability to play slowly, it's always full throttle win or lose. He's more ultra aggressive than Sumail
|
On May 01 2016 23:17 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 23:10 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 23:08 babysimba wrote:On May 01 2016 23:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On May 01 2016 22:51 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:42 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:#productionvalue On May 01 2016 22:36 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:34 OuchyDathurts wrote:
IMO Aui is too apprehensive. Artour has killer instinct. If he thinks for a microsecond he can kill you he's going for that kill 100% of the time. If he thinks he can get away with farming something he'll farm it 100% of the time. This leads to insane overwhelming farm and clowning on fools or it leads to a lot of deaths. But even if he's dying he's most likely got way more farm than anyone else because he rides the line so hard. I feel like Aui backs down and pussyfoots around too much right now. Hopefully he'll come around. Autour really sucks at carrying though. You need to kick him out of safe farming spots in order to put him in position to have that killer instinct. And then if he is there, he needs to rein it in. His carry was amazing back in the day. I feel like him and Sumail cover a lot of the same ground as far as styles go so they don't really work together. On Secret I don't think his carry has ever been the problem with the team either time. It's always the same problem with Artezzy; he's too farm heavy and disrupts better income distribution. It's ok if you just steamroll enemies or if enemies throw back the lead. Much worse if you need to manage space well or maintain fighting condition against a well matched team. Its fine if you have one player that does that, not two. On EG with Sumail there's 2 people doing the same thing. I think this Secret might suit his style the best currently, provided Universe can get back on track, he's been slumping for a few months IMO. If Artezzy plays the true 2, secret will be a better team. Sometimes when Artour farms it's like denying his own team farm and then his team plays 4 on 5. RTZ is a farming mid. That is his premium strength. You forgot how he is considered the best mid once before he even starts the mid farming trend. When he was a newbie, he is a much better player because he plays whatever the team needs. I think this is why teams need new blood, new players are more willing to adapt and have fresh ideas. Veterans that refuse to change their old habits get phased out. Are you not contradicting yourself? He started off a normal tempo controller mid, he switched to a farming mid. He adapted and changed his habits. Hell he literally invented an entire meta and perfected it. Just because he invented new ideas to play doesn't mean he can't go back to old ideas when the meta calls for it.
But he doesn't and he won't, as we have seen in the last few years. When was the last time Arteezy went to play a hero that didn't need farm?
|
Rtz invoker has improved, but it is still not good. His spell usage decisions are good, but he doesn't land them well. Its almost as though he just spam spells in fights, hopeful that they hit heroes.
|
On May 01 2016 23:17 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 23:06 nanaoei wrote:On May 01 2016 22:57 MaCRo.gg wrote:
JW where would you guys rank QO? How much below Miracle, RTZ, Misery? hey macro, i personally watch a lot of QO streams (though those have stopped) as well the majority of spectated games in RTZ and miracle VODS/replays, all in order of least to most frequent and in terms of interest in the play itself. i'd make a comparison like this, sorry if it sounds like nonsense. foreign competitive starcraft players tend to click mighty often and play to their own strengths. korean professional starcraft players try to take it a level further and make the actions count down to the smallest detail. this is not where i'd put QO, but miracle and moreso arteezy are like the korean counterpart, while QO maintains the foreigner level with many glimpses of brilliance, all backed by weaker mechanics overall. pretty much, your ability to stack, watch timers, understand movements in and around mid to jungle to make use of this time, and budgeting time to play off the map are all hallmarks for very special players who get a lot of extra work done. this is all strictly opinion from having watched so many games from each player's perspective. granted, i've only had the pleasure of watching QO's personal stream on CN server, so i don't know how he actually plays and scrims except for what i see on the main stage (admittedly amazing results!). he definitely know his shit, but i don't think we'll see him playing meepo any time soon. the closest thing we've seen him play is a farming alch. miracle = farming and superb fighting as well as timing rtz = knowledge, jungle farm, hero versatility and all around mechanical skill. QO = captaincy (though shared), huge plays all on the back of his teammates, role versatility and very special skill with a handful of specific heroes. Thanks for the response, gave me some perspective on what to watch for when I watch streams n stuff. Where does QO seem to lack? Farm optimization? Small hero pool? In terms of fighting he heavily depends on his teammates to bail him out of situations, but I don't think anymore so than RTZ. Consistency seems like the biggest problem for QO.
hey my pleasure, you seem very mannered and make wonderful posts!
i don't know what QO lacks now since it's been quite some months in the hyperbolic timechamber for him.
i think he actually does what a lot of players do: explore a lot in pubs and stick to something that seems nice until a conclusion can be met (good, workable or not). you mention farm optimization, but this is sometimes not so necessary (or is deceptively detrimental). the key in my opinion is knowing timings and then seeing how each respective player tries to hit them.
for example the BoTs + battlefury timing on ember can vary widely, but generally finishes at around 20-25minutes if the game is average to good, and so this all limits what he can and cannot do in accordance to who he faces (their heroes and tenancies). that's why players seem to have patterns and seeming only alter them slightly from game to game.
i'm sure he's willing to play lots of heroes, but you'll notice dubu only plays around 3 different heroes in WD, ES, and another i'm not recalling. it's just they way his team has practiced. what's super refreshing about him and his team is that you don't know what to expect and that is all on top of them practicing in entirely different regions all with their own teams and strategies.
|
On May 01 2016 23:15 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 23:04 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:56 Azarkon wrote:On May 01 2016 22:44 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:41 Azarkon wrote:On May 01 2016 22:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:#productionvalue On May 01 2016 22:36 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:34 OuchyDathurts wrote:
IMO Aui is too apprehensive. Artour has killer instinct. If he thinks for a microsecond he can kill you he's going for that kill 100% of the time. If he thinks he can get away with farming something he'll farm it 100% of the time. This leads to insane overwhelming farm and clowning on fools or it leads to a lot of deaths. But even if he's dying he's most likely got way more farm than anyone else because he rides the line so hard. I feel like Aui backs down and pussyfoots around too much right now. Hopefully he'll come around. Autour really sucks at carrying though. You need to kick him out of safe farming spots in order to put him in position to have that killer instinct. And then if he is there, he needs to rein it in. His carry was amazing back in the day. I feel like him and Sumail cover a lot of the same ground as far as styles go so they don't really work together. On Secret I don't think his carry has ever been the problem with the team either time. On Secret, he had a huge problem with the fact that Kuroky usually plays for himself. You saw it in that game where Kuroky didn't sit him and he died over and over. Yeah, but Arteezy was never the problem on Secret. Artour WAS Secret at TI5, he was playing his heart out but he was fighting alone. Last tourney Universe looked terrible but Arteezy played out of his fucking mind. He had the rest of his team help get him farm, of course he was the only one to look as though he was doing well. Secret at that tournament never found a way to both get Arteezy farm and to not lose with the other four. The problem is that Arteezy needs farm to work. He does not play well without farm and will die every team fight when he doesn't get it. That's why teams need to work around him; he has to get farm. Well they ran a lot of SF since that hero was OP and they had arguably the best SF, if not 2nd best SF in the world on their team. The hero required stacks and they did that for him because thats how you play with that hero regardless of who is playing it. It just so happens when you have a SF god and the hero is broken you want to give him every advantage you can. Watch Secrets final game of TI5, he was carrying his team up a cliff through sheer force of will alone. That game fucking hurt the soul, that had to have taken a few years off his life. He plays the same with every hero after the early game. You'll always see Arteezy on the top of the team in farm because he'll farm by himself in the middle game and his team will move around to make sure he gets to do it. I'm not going to say it's a bad way to play; but it does make Arteezy look as though he's the best on a team every game even though it's the team doing the work. And I'm not going to say that Secret is bad because they have Arteezy. But they do need to work out who's going to get farm. What I saw from their games during the last tournament was that Arteezy would take farm from EternalEnvy - as he has to, because he's Arteezy - and then EternalEnvy, also a player who needs a lot of farm, would not know how to play without it. But of course, Puppey was playing bad that tournament, so we have to see how they do when Puppey isn't.
He's willing to do anything to farm or kill though. Thats why his farm was so stupidly amazing. His patterns were perfect but he would also blow ults purely to farm. No other player was doing that. He could pull out all the stops to get ahead. That's the kind of killer instinct you need. Aui was going like vanguard before any boots at all on AM. I think he got a bfury and vanguard before treads even. Ugh its so slow and safe and I'm positive it was the slowest possible build. I'm absolutely not a fan of that kind of style at all. Aui's a great dude, I hope he grows into the role more, but I think he needs more of a boot on the throat mentality.
I feel like Arteezy is going to be Arteezy and EE is going to be Mason/Fear from the 2014 era and I think that'll be fine. Those two see completely eye to eye as far as the game goes so I'm sure that as long as there's not some personality clash thing they'll figure it out. I'm sure RTZ could play with Fear and see eye to eye as father/son but him and Sumail/PPD couldn't do it.
|
On May 01 2016 23:08 babysimba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 23:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On May 01 2016 22:51 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:42 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:#productionvalue On May 01 2016 22:36 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:34 OuchyDathurts wrote:
IMO Aui is too apprehensive. Artour has killer instinct. If he thinks for a microsecond he can kill you he's going for that kill 100% of the time. If he thinks he can get away with farming something he'll farm it 100% of the time. This leads to insane overwhelming farm and clowning on fools or it leads to a lot of deaths. But even if he's dying he's most likely got way more farm than anyone else because he rides the line so hard. I feel like Aui backs down and pussyfoots around too much right now. Hopefully he'll come around. Autour really sucks at carrying though. You need to kick him out of safe farming spots in order to put him in position to have that killer instinct. And then if he is there, he needs to rein it in. His carry was amazing back in the day. I feel like him and Sumail cover a lot of the same ground as far as styles go so they don't really work together. On Secret I don't think his carry has ever been the problem with the team either time. It's always the same problem with Artezzy; he's too farm heavy and disrupts better income distribution. It's ok if you just steamroll enemies or if enemies throw back the lead. Much worse if you need to manage space well or maintain fighting condition against a well matched team. Its fine if you have one player that does that, not two. On EG with Sumail there's 2 people doing the same thing. I think this Secret might suit his style the best currently, provided Universe can get back on track, he's been slumping for a few months IMO. If Artezzy plays the true 2, secret will be a better team. Sometimes when Artour farms it's like denying his own team farm and then his team plays 4 on 5. RTZ is a farming mid. That is his premium strength. You forgot how he is considered the best mid once before he even starts the mid farming trend. When he was a newbie, he is a much better player because he plays whatever the team needs. I think this is why teams need new blood, new players are more willing to adapt and have fresh ideas. Veterans that refuse to change their old habits get phased out. Not sure how you categorize RTZ as a veteran. How was he considered the best mid, prior to playing a faming mid, which he did once he got a team?
|
Vega filmed in front of a huge statue, Mvp filmed on some random rocks :D.
|
On May 01 2016 23:22 DucK- wrote:
Rtz invoker has improved, but it is still not good. His spell usage decisions are good, but he doesn't land them well. Its almost as though he just spam spells in fights, hopeful that they hit heroes.
It's no where near Miracle's Invoker, that shit is too impressive for words. But I feel like it's one of the better ones. Sumail's invoker hasn't impressed me in like a year. I feel like Arteezy's needs work, but before that tourney everyone thought the odds of him playing that hero was 0%, that hero was dead for him.
|
I don't think Puck is a good choice for Vega. MVP will probably put MP on a tempo mid and fend off the strong mid game push.
|
|
|
On May 01 2016 23:25 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 23:08 babysimba wrote:On May 01 2016 23:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On May 01 2016 22:51 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:42 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:#productionvalue On May 01 2016 22:36 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:34 OuchyDathurts wrote:
IMO Aui is too apprehensive. Artour has killer instinct. If he thinks for a microsecond he can kill you he's going for that kill 100% of the time. If he thinks he can get away with farming something he'll farm it 100% of the time. This leads to insane overwhelming farm and clowning on fools or it leads to a lot of deaths. But even if he's dying he's most likely got way more farm than anyone else because he rides the line so hard. I feel like Aui backs down and pussyfoots around too much right now. Hopefully he'll come around. Autour really sucks at carrying though. You need to kick him out of safe farming spots in order to put him in position to have that killer instinct. And then if he is there, he needs to rein it in. His carry was amazing back in the day. I feel like him and Sumail cover a lot of the same ground as far as styles go so they don't really work together. On Secret I don't think his carry has ever been the problem with the team either time. It's always the same problem with Artezzy; he's too farm heavy and disrupts better income distribution. It's ok if you just steamroll enemies or if enemies throw back the lead. Much worse if you need to manage space well or maintain fighting condition against a well matched team. Its fine if you have one player that does that, not two. On EG with Sumail there's 2 people doing the same thing. I think this Secret might suit his style the best currently, provided Universe can get back on track, he's been slumping for a few months IMO. If Artezzy plays the true 2, secret will be a better team. Sometimes when Artour farms it's like denying his own team farm and then his team plays 4 on 5. RTZ is a farming mid. That is his premium strength. You forgot how he is considered the best mid once before he even starts the mid farming trend. When he was a newbie, he is a much better player because he plays whatever the team needs. I think this is why teams need new blood, new players are more willing to adapt and have fresh ideas. Veterans that refuse to change their old habits get phased out. Not sure how you categorize RTZ as a veteran. How was he considered the best mid, prior to playing a faming mid, which he did once he got a team?
He played well on speed. Obviously not the best mid in the world. But people that know dota could tell that that kid had some INSANE talent. Sometimes you can just tell someone has that certain magic and people knew he had the potential to be a world beater if you could harness him. While winning MLG didn't make him the best mid, it made Fear approach him to form SADBOYS.
Oh yeah I totally forgot about Kaipi too. I don't think that anyone thought he was the best mid in the world before EG. But I certainly felt watching him back then that he had the highest potential skill cap of anyone in the world. When he was on he could destroy everyone easily.
....his name is Semen?.....
|
On May 01 2016 23:24 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 23:15 Azarkon wrote:On May 01 2016 23:04 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:56 Azarkon wrote:On May 01 2016 22:44 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:41 Azarkon wrote:On May 01 2016 22:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:#productionvalue On May 01 2016 22:36 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:34 OuchyDathurts wrote:
IMO Aui is too apprehensive. Artour has killer instinct. If he thinks for a microsecond he can kill you he's going for that kill 100% of the time. If he thinks he can get away with farming something he'll farm it 100% of the time. This leads to insane overwhelming farm and clowning on fools or it leads to a lot of deaths. But even if he's dying he's most likely got way more farm than anyone else because he rides the line so hard. I feel like Aui backs down and pussyfoots around too much right now. Hopefully he'll come around. Autour really sucks at carrying though. You need to kick him out of safe farming spots in order to put him in position to have that killer instinct. And then if he is there, he needs to rein it in. His carry was amazing back in the day. I feel like him and Sumail cover a lot of the same ground as far as styles go so they don't really work together. On Secret I don't think his carry has ever been the problem with the team either time. On Secret, he had a huge problem with the fact that Kuroky usually plays for himself. You saw it in that game where Kuroky didn't sit him and he died over and over. Yeah, but Arteezy was never the problem on Secret. Artour WAS Secret at TI5, he was playing his heart out but he was fighting alone. Last tourney Universe looked terrible but Arteezy played out of his fucking mind. He had the rest of his team help get him farm, of course he was the only one to look as though he was doing well. Secret at that tournament never found a way to both get Arteezy farm and to not lose with the other four. The problem is that Arteezy needs farm to work. He does not play well without farm and will die every team fight when he doesn't get it. That's why teams need to work around him; he has to get farm. Well they ran a lot of SF since that hero was OP and they had arguably the best SF, if not 2nd best SF in the world on their team. The hero required stacks and they did that for him because thats how you play with that hero regardless of who is playing it. It just so happens when you have a SF god and the hero is broken you want to give him every advantage you can. Watch Secrets final game of TI5, he was carrying his team up a cliff through sheer force of will alone. That game fucking hurt the soul, that had to have taken a few years off his life. He plays the same with every hero after the early game. You'll always see Arteezy on the top of the team in farm because he'll farm by himself in the middle game and his team will move around to make sure he gets to do it. I'm not going to say it's a bad way to play; but it does make Arteezy look as though he's the best on a team every game even though it's the team doing the work. And I'm not going to say that Secret is bad because they have Arteezy. But they do need to work out who's going to get farm. What I saw from their games during the last tournament was that Arteezy would take farm from EternalEnvy - as he has to, because he's Arteezy - and then EternalEnvy, also a player who needs a lot of farm, would not know how to play without it. But of course, Puppey was playing bad that tournament, so we have to see how they do when Puppey isn't. He's willing to do anything to farm or kill though. Thats why his farm was so stupidly amazing. His patterns were perfect but he would also blow ults purely to farm. No other player was doing that. He could pull out all the stops to get ahead. That's the kind of killer instinct you need. Aui was going like vanguard before any boots at all on AM. I think he got a bfury and vanguard before treads even. Ugh its so slow and safe and I'm positive it was the slowest possible build. I'm absolutely not a fan of that kind of style at all. Aui's a great dude, I hope he grows into the role more, but I think he needs more of a boot on the throat mentality...
i'm actually hoping beesa or someone can explain the clear vanguard decision for me, or that i can sit down and watch the replays. it's slow so it erases the slim manta timing that's possible if you skip vlads (also not to everyone's liking, but much more common). if HP or having to jungle is an issue or something left wanting, RoH + vit booster should be enough.
but an extra 1k on top of that, (having to rebuy the RoH) again is quite a lot extra.
there's more than that to the build and i guess i'll have to watch more games with it.
|
wtf, is that guys name really Semen?
|
On May 01 2016 23:25 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2016 23:08 babysimba wrote:On May 01 2016 23:03 Dracolich70 wrote:On May 01 2016 22:51 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:48 OuchyDathurts wrote:On May 01 2016 22:42 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:#productionvalue On May 01 2016 22:36 TanGeng wrote:On May 01 2016 22:34 OuchyDathurts wrote:
IMO Aui is too apprehensive. Artour has killer instinct. If he thinks for a microsecond he can kill you he's going for that kill 100% of the time. If he thinks he can get away with farming something he'll farm it 100% of the time. This leads to insane overwhelming farm and clowning on fools or it leads to a lot of deaths. But even if he's dying he's most likely got way more farm than anyone else because he rides the line so hard. I feel like Aui backs down and pussyfoots around too much right now. Hopefully he'll come around. Autour really sucks at carrying though. You need to kick him out of safe farming spots in order to put him in position to have that killer instinct. And then if he is there, he needs to rein it in. His carry was amazing back in the day. I feel like him and Sumail cover a lot of the same ground as far as styles go so they don't really work together. On Secret I don't think his carry has ever been the problem with the team either time. It's always the same problem with Artezzy; he's too farm heavy and disrupts better income distribution. It's ok if you just steamroll enemies or if enemies throw back the lead. Much worse if you need to manage space well or maintain fighting condition against a well matched team. Its fine if you have one player that does that, not two. On EG with Sumail there's 2 people doing the same thing. I think this Secret might suit his style the best currently, provided Universe can get back on track, he's been slumping for a few months IMO. If Artezzy plays the true 2, secret will be a better team. Sometimes when Artour farms it's like denying his own team farm and then his team plays 4 on 5. RTZ is a farming mid. That is his premium strength. You forgot how he is considered the best mid once before he even starts the mid farming trend. When he was a newbie, he is a much better player because he plays whatever the team needs. I think this is why teams need new blood, new players are more willing to adapt and have fresh ideas. Veterans that refuse to change their old habits get phased out. Not sure how you categorize RTZ as a veteran. How was he considered the best mid, prior to playing a faming mid, which he did once he got a team?
He was shitting on people with puck, qop, SF, TA in Kaipi. He plays OD, timber, ET (lol?) in MLG, his first LAN. Kaipi is his first team, not Sadboys.
|
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On May 01 2016 23:32 malcram wrote:
wtf, is that guys name really Semen?
More like Semyon, actually.
Letter ё is a fucked up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
