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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On January 31 2016 01:41 nojok wrote: Remember when kotl used to shut down early pushes? pretty sure having kotl doesn't mean you can lose all your lanes and win the game unless the enemy team is incompetent (or drafted 0 actual building hitting) | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On January 31 2016 01:43 Taf the Ghost wrote: Sumail was on Lina x2 & TA against LGD. So ppd has definitely moved back to the much higher damage Mids for Sumail. That's good, as finding damage in this meta is actually a bit hard. Given the defensive supports and everyone trying to run massive stuns/silences. ye i agree, those are definitely more sumail heroes than, say... batrider... which is still a uni hero and still really strong in the offlane, especially a dual offlane which eg can often afford to run | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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Sloke
Germany2433 Posts
You can really feel that this is one of the most stacked LAN's for 6.86 and this on chinese soil. | ||
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Gear 3rd
1244 Posts
Azarkon certainly did some phone calls | ||
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trifecta
United States6795 Posts
On January 31 2016 01:32 Acritter wrote: It's definitely true. I don't think it's RTZ's fault, though, not exactly. I think it's that Sumail and RTZ just can't function on the same team, because their style of play overlaps in all the wrong ways. Both of them want a lot of space cleared for them and a lot of farm for them to take, and although it's possible to do, you can't really manage that with the PPD/Fear support duo. Not to knock on them, either: they're great at what they do, but they don't have the precise kind of talents needed to actively create space for two super-greedy cores. EG worked well with Aui and Zai because it's just so much easier to make that kind of greed work with a 4-position hero. Fear played the same role that s4 played in old Secret, being the playmaker and using his early farm to leverage the kind of midgame map presence that current EG wishes they had, and Aui/Zai could always play a jungle hero to add even more pressure to the midgame. But RTZ has never been the best at putting on pressure in the midgame except as a ticking time bomb, and Sumail is still learning how to do it without leaning heavily on jungle flash farm. It's just all kind of messy from a strategic standpoint, and I imagine that bleeds into play. that's why I think swapping zai for fear makes a lot of sense not for skill/play cause fear has been fine but for strategic flexibility | ||
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Danzo
2820 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On January 31 2016 01:45 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: ye i agree, those are definitely more sumail heroes than, say... batrider... which is still a uni hero and still really strong in the offlane, especially a dual offlane which eg can often afford to run Sumail plays a really good bat. Not quite s4's level at that he got to at Starladder, but still top tier. The issue isn't the Batrider, it's what it does to their initiation. Universe has to play a damage dealer, and ppd just couldn't figure out ones that were working well. So Sumail Batrider ends up pushing the best offlaner in the world into a 2 position core role. That was actually the problem, against Tier 1 competition. Against Tier 2 competition, EG can do whatever the hell they want, really. Which is part of the "Day 1 EG" effect. That's why I'm really quite hoping that Complexity figure themselves out, as it would give both teams much, much better practice for International LANs. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On January 31 2016 01:52 trifecta wrote: that's why I think swapping zai for fear makes a lot of sense not for skill/play cause fear has been fine but for strategic flexibility I'm on the fence; I kinda think the best thing that could happen for EG would be for Fear to move back to carry. Having an insanely flexible carry player who can put on major pressure is so critical for the team. Alternatively, they drop Universe and Fear to pick up Miracle and w33, thereby preventing any European team except for Alliance from having a T1 mid player. EG.NA suffers for EG.EU to pull through. | ||
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goody153
44240 Posts
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HaXxorIzed
Australia8434 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On January 31 2016 01:55 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: yea idk i wouldn't agree that sumail's bat is actually that great, all the games i've seen it it kinda did the job and also kinda fed unnecessarily The game 1s against Vega & LGD at Starladder bracket stage, his bat looked good. But Batrider wasn't overpowered there, it was just coming back into the meta. At MDL, everyone has remembered how to play against it, so it's going a brilliant 7-14. But regardless of how well Sumail was or wasn't playing it, it really messes up EG's team fight coordination because Universe is the one that they key off. We saw it in Game 2 against LGD. (Though, in hindsight, they really didn't have anyone to initate in that draft, but if they had just dodged for another 15 minutes rather than Rosh'ing, they'd have won anyway.) Though Sumail must be really salty still about Storm Spirit's nerfs. He'd be styling all over other mids if he had the chance right now. | ||
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Diavlo
Belgium2915 Posts
On January 31 2016 01:52 trifecta wrote: that's why I think swapping zai for fear makes a lot of sense not for skill/play cause fear has been fine but for strategic flexibility Fear brings more to the table than just skill/play. According to ppd he's very important to the overall structure of the team. And hes incredibly flexible in picks, just because he doesn't play something doesn't mean he can't. In his Vlog, ppd said that in the game against LGD at SL13 he picked WD for Fear despite him never playing it and he wrecked them. I love zai and wished there was a place for him on EG but I don't think there is. Also the idea that EG was cleaner with aui is wrong. They didn't look any more dominant than now, they are a scrappy team which gets stronger the more the tournament advance. Right now I think there are just more teams who are able to challenge them and I'm pretty sure they would be doing worse with Aui. On January 31 2016 02:04 HaXxorIzed wrote: Honestly, it looks like EG are set up to play out this year with Fear on support and then reconsider their options (read, yell at zai to get back when school is over). Doubly so if Fear's health/'tennis elbow' starts acting up. His chemistry with Arteezy and plethora of playable heroes would address that side of the problem - EG still need to tone back how eager they are / arrogant about taking some fights, though. Where does this idea that zai has a plethora of heroes comes from? He had actually a pretty limited set of amazing heroes Enigma/WK/bane but he wasn't as versatile as Fear. Even as an offlaner he was the same, mostly bat/clock/Brood/DS. | ||
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Sloke
Germany2433 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On January 31 2016 02:04 HaXxorIzed wrote: Honestly, it looks like EG are set up to play out this year with Fear on support and then reconsider their options (read, yell at zai to get back when school is over). Doubly so if Fear's health/'tennis elbow' starts acting up. His chemistry with Arteezy and plethora of playable heroes would address that side of the problem - EG still need to tone back how eager they are / arrogant about taking some fights, though. EG has actually over-extended less as this tournament has gone on. They've been slowly getting better about that. (Especially since they first brought back Arteezy. Both he & Sumail have that issue.) They're slowly figuring it all out, but they still have 7 months to TI. And it's not like they're doing badly since Arteezy came back. This is their 6th LAN, and their results are 1 win, 2 2nds, 3rd at Frankfurt and MDL at least 3rd. Their only real botch-up was against Vega at ESL One, but Mag's Broodmother was the cause there. So, things ain't bad right now. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On January 31 2016 02:04 Taf the Ghost wrote: I agree that EG key off Universe. Universe is one of their main key players. It has been missed for a while in my opinion, since Aui left, as the foci was on getting Sumail and RTZ to roll.The game 1s against Vega & LGD at Starladder bracket stage, his bat looked good. But Batrider wasn't overpowered there, it was just coming back into the meta. At MDL, everyone has remembered how to play against it, so it's going a brilliant 7-14. But regardless of how well Sumail was or wasn't playing it, it really messes up EG's team fight coordination because Universe is the one that they key off. We saw it in Game 2 against LGD. (Though, in hindsight, they really didn't have anyone to initate in that draft, but if they had just dodged for another 15 minutes rather than Rosh'ing, they'd have won anyway.) Though Sumail must be really salty still about Storm Spirit's nerfs. He'd be styling all over other mids if he had the chance right now. He shouldn't be salty about the Storm, because if he is that dependant on a snowballer such as the storm, in that shape, he is one-dimensional. And EG can't afford to have one being prominently one-dimensional, imo. | ||
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