Excited to see Miracle play. He is by far the most exciting player to watch and has consistently been putting up amazing performances. Still a VG teamfight fanboy though.
On January 30 2016 08:15 Dysisa wrote: I've heard from reliable sources that "China can't beat PPD's team" so I guess I know what I should bet on in EG vs VG.
VG's favor: beat EG 2-0 pretty well in the group stage. EG's favor: Bo3 as EG against VG and time to plan.
Winner: EG 2-1
Newbee vs LGD:
Newbee's favor: Can ban dark seer. LGD's favor: Other Chinese squads don't like to ban Dark Seer against LGD.
Winner: Newbee figures out to ban Dark Seer by game 2, Newbee 2-1.
Ehome vs OG:
Ehome's Favor: Best Chinese team on the patch, good push strategies. OG's favor: Best defensive high ground team in the tournament, Miracle playing supremely well.
I want Hao to slay stuff Also anyone have an ETA on when the games will end? I'm probably going out within the hour but might be back in three hours or so. Have games been long or short and stompy this tourney?
Hmm, not sure what was happening. I was watching the EG vs Col draft...ES FV Lina vs Enchant Kunkaa....until I refreshed and now I am seeing the VG game.
Edit: Shit! Just gave myself a foil cut taking the cap off a bottle of scotch.
On January 30 2016 11:36 Chewbacca. wrote: Hmm, not sure what was happening. I was watching the EG vs Col draft...ES FV Lina vs Enchant Kunkaa....until I refreshed and now I am seeing the VG game.
It's Azubu things. You can actually load the entire tournament that was on the stream, as you probably had the time stamp from then.
Anyway, EG saw what Ehome was doing and decided "we can bulldoze your towers too".
Use to like EGs old Drow invoker drafts when Fear would run around kicking ass as a quas/wex invoker still having a ton of damage...hopefully they can do a repeat.
On January 30 2016 11:42 Chewbacca. wrote: Use to like EGs old Drow invoker drafts when Fear would run around kicking ass as a quas/wex invoker still having a ton of damage...hopefully they can do a repeat.
I wonder if Sumail is going to for a similar quas/wex build. He tends to favor heavy exort tho.
killing drow doesnt stop this drow lineup as much as LD is saying
he's still got decent farm, and his team is prioritizing farm NOT on rtz, that's why they shoved him offlane solo while ES farms blink and they give visage safelane
On January 30 2016 11:56 yookstah wrote: I prefer that aegis on sumail, but meh
its just nicer having drow as the building hitter though, sumail can freely lurk in the back and counterinitiate
Yes, there is that. However, invoker has a much easier way to get away after popping his aegis, compared to drow who'll just walk then get donkd. I guess that's what the venge is for
wtf is vg even doing EG with only 4 alive swap Sumail into death. So what is VG's reaction? Let's clump up against ES because the fight is over anyways, right? Right? Oh VG
if ww and wd sit back it's almost impossible for universe to get a good echo off, and without echo eg just lacks the initiation to win because vg has 3 cores
Eh, new Winter Wyvern? I don't know about that. I'll also argue the off hero makes a difference, too. I don't think they have the advantage, certainly not, but they're not too bad off late game. You can't count on just winning the game for VG when they get to late game.
Eh, new Winter Wyvern? I don't know about that. I'll also argue the off hero makes a difference, too. I don't think they have the advantage, certainly not, but they're not too bad off late game.
If you don't think they have a drafting advantage at this point, you're bad at dota. How the fuck can you be arguing this, deary me
On January 30 2016 12:20 GreYMisT wrote: Is there a way to get rid of the toolbar at the bottom of the azubu stream or is that just something we have to deal with.
it goes away by itself after a while on mobile you have to swipe up or something
Eh, new Winter Wyvern? I don't know about that. I'll also argue the off hero makes a difference, too. I don't think they have the advantage, certainly not, but they're not too bad off late game.
If you don't think they have a drafting advantage, you're bad at dota. How the fuck can you be arguing this, deary me
I'm going to put it this way: how does VG initiate? Winter Wyvern? There are TWO late game initiators on the other side, while VG has only "everybody run in" when Winter Wyvern isn't around. PPD's team has an initiation advantage, not a disadvantage. And initiation is very important late game.
On January 30 2016 12:20 GreYMisT wrote: Is there a way to get rid of the toolbar at the bottom of the azubu stream or is that just something we have to deal with.
it goes away by itself after a while on mobile you have to swipe up or something
On January 30 2016 12:20 GreYMisT wrote: Is there a way to get rid of the toolbar at the bottom of the azubu stream or is that just something we have to deal with.
Eh, new Winter Wyvern? I don't know about that. I'll also argue the off hero makes a difference, too. I don't think they have the advantage, certainly not, but they're not too bad off late game.
If you don't think they have a drafting advantage, you're bad at dota. How the fuck can you be arguing this, deary me
I'm going to put it this way: how does VG initiate? Winter Wyvern? There are TWO late game initiators on the other side, while VG has only "everybody run in" when Winter Wyvern isn't around. PPD's team has an initiation advantage, not a disadvantage. And initiation is very important late game.
VG doesn't need to hard initiate on anyone. Just sit around and farm 12 slots on LD while countering any engages with WW / OD save.
Eh, new Winter Wyvern? I don't know about that. I'll also argue the off hero makes a difference, too. I don't think they have the advantage, certainly not, but they're not too bad off late game.
If you don't think they have a drafting advantage, you're bad at dota. How the fuck can you be arguing this, deary me
I'm going to put it this way: how does VG initiate? Winter Wyvern? There are TWO late game initiators on the other side, while VG has only "everybody run in" when Winter Wyvern isn't around. PPD's team has an initiation advantage, not a disadvantage. And initiation is very important late game.
VG doesn't need to hard initiate on anyone. Just sit around and farm 12 slots on LD while countering any engages with WW / OD save.
Why am I even talking to Azarkon, damn
Farm until 12 slots on Lone Druid? Which game are you playing, because it's not Dota.
On January 30 2016 12:30 rabidch wrote: rofl that game was EG outplaying VG rather than outdrafting. atrocious decisionmaking
Feeding both cores down at the Radiant Bottom Tier 2 was the worst play, as EG forced Burning to buyback. That killed his scaling. Wow, Burning ended the game with no damage items?
VG constantly put themselves in a vulnerable fighting state when they didn't need to. I don't think they EVER took a good fight where WW would be able to do his job (but WW also could have gotten a blink dagger)
On January 30 2016 12:35 lolnoty wrote: people shouldn't rag on RTZ so much that game, he had the tough job of being the most forward hero and was expected to die a bit that game
The witch doctor cask had the most the annoying in this game. It stopped so many key teams fights for EG early game.
One of the funkier bits about high-level play is that team fights can get so messy. There are jukes & combos all over the place, and then counter-jukes happen and the fight spreads across two lanes in a hurry.
On January 30 2016 12:35 lolnoty wrote: people shouldn't rag on RTZ so much that game, he had the tough job of being the most forward hero and was expected to die a bit that game
The witch doctor cask had the most the annoying in this game. It stopped so many key teams fights for EG early game.
You can blame ppd for bringing Witch Doctor back into the meta at Starladder. There was actually a drafting fight between EG & LGD over it in their series.
On January 30 2016 12:39 goody153 wrote: tuna(or anybody who knows) if you are reading this what do i need to update in order to be able to livestreamer with azubu
I believe that you need to use the development / nightly build to be able to use azubu
On January 30 2016 12:39 goody153 wrote: tuna(or anybody who knows) if you are reading this what do i need to update in order to be able to livestreamer with azubu
I have a beta build of Livestreamer. Last stable wouldn't work for me.
Did SC2 pros ever post in TL tourney threads to give their comments on games. Some times when I read these "analysis" in the forum, I feel like it's blind leading the blind.
On January 30 2016 12:41 Orome wrote: Come on guys, let's not pretend that wasn't a throw.
If the 'let's go hg with all our bkbs and most of our ults down' didn't give it away, icex3 chasing Arteezy into the fountain should have.
seriously, anyone will get mad at that call to push high ground when bkb's are down..anyone will get mad at ice3 chasing rtz in base like VG have taken all raxes..they did fine early and then threw all burning did early with the ganks into the gutter with those mid game plays
On January 30 2016 12:42 molecu wrote: Did SC2 pros ever post in TL tourney threads to give their comments on games. Some times when I read these "analysis" in the forum, I feel like it's blind leading the blind.
On January 30 2016 12:42 molecu wrote: Did SC2 pros ever post in TL tourney threads to give their comments on games. Some times when I read these "analysis" in the forum, I feel like it's blind leading the blind.
On January 30 2016 12:42 molecu wrote: Did SC2 pros ever post in TL tourney threads to give their comments on games. Some times when I read these "analysis" in the forum, I feel like it's blind leading the blind.
On January 30 2016 12:42 molecu wrote: Did SC2 pros ever post in TL tourney threads to give their comments on games. Some times when I read these "analysis" in the forum, I feel like it's blind leading the blind.
i don't remember
but we got beesa insight like 2 or a day ago in this forum
VG could've went back after killing PPD and using their BKB, yes, but you guys are acting as though they'd have won the game had they just done that, when all it'd have done is allow PPD to come back. It's not though VG's BKB was going to stop being five seconds.
On January 30 2016 12:52 Baozi wrote: uh did peter just pick a tidehunter is this a deny pick
In game 1, fy attacked Universe's heroes. Same as ppd attacked Fenrir's. He secured a strong one for Universe in the first phase, after having to pick up the contested heroes.
On January 30 2016 12:52 Baozi wrote: uh did peter just pick a tidehunter is this a deny pick
In game 1, fy attacked Universe's heroes. Same as ppd attacked Fenrir's. He secured a strong one for Universe in the first phase, after having to pick up the contested heroes.
yea but i'm pretty sure peter swore off the hero forever if i recall correctly
On January 30 2016 12:51 Azarkon wrote: VG could've went back after killing PPD and using their BKB, yes, but you guys are acting as though they'd have won the game had they just done that, when all it'd have done is allow PPD to come back. It's not though VG's BKB was going to stop being five seconds.
The throw train began when they took a random and completely avoidable one by one feed fight in their jungle after getting rax. Going in without bkbs was just the finale of VG collectively losing their minds.
Also their position isn't super amazing if they just retreat, but it's also not that terrible.
On January 30 2016 12:51 Acritter wrote: Is anyone restreaming this with a client that doesn't lag computers to hell and back
And by this I don't mean actual lag, just inexplicable buffering when I try to fullscreen
u can watch youtube streams..do u want link?
It's significantly behind, but I don't think I'm gonna be discussing it
Thanks, that's way better
is there a reason you don't want to use livestreamer? it's pretty nice
Do you mean MarsTV (Azubu)? Because if the thing that you get linked to from the sidebar is what you're talking about, the video lags and buffers for me when it's fullscreened
On January 30 2016 12:51 Acritter wrote: Is anyone restreaming this with a client that doesn't lag computers to hell and back
And by this I don't mean actual lag, just inexplicable buffering when I try to fullscreen
u can watch youtube streams..do u want link?
It's significantly behind, but I don't think I'm gonna be discussing it
Thanks, that's way better
is there a reason you don't want to use livestreamer? it's pretty nice
Do you mean MarsTV (Azubu)? Because if the thing that you get linked to from the sidebar is what you're talking about, the video lags and buffers for me when it's fullscreened
He's talking about the livestreamer utility that lets you watch streams in your preferred media player without having to use the horrible flash interface that most sites use
On January 30 2016 12:51 Acritter wrote: Is anyone restreaming this with a client that doesn't lag computers to hell and back
And by this I don't mean actual lag, just inexplicable buffering when I try to fullscreen
u can watch youtube streams..do u want link?
It's significantly behind, but I don't think I'm gonna be discussing it
Thanks, that's way better
is there a reason you don't want to use livestreamer? it's pretty nice
Do you mean MarsTV (Azubu)? Because if the thing that you get linked to from the sidebar is what you're talking about, the video lags and buffers for me when it's fullscreened
Livestreamer is a program to connect the Stream to a video player on your computer. Pulls it out of Flash and into a dedicated video player. It works so much better.
On January 30 2016 12:51 Acritter wrote: Is anyone restreaming this with a client that doesn't lag computers to hell and back
And by this I don't mean actual lag, just inexplicable buffering when I try to fullscreen
u can watch youtube streams..do u want link?
It's significantly behind, but I don't think I'm gonna be discussing it
Thanks, that's way better
is there a reason you don't want to use livestreamer? it's pretty nice
Do you mean MarsTV (Azubu)? Because if the thing that you get linked to from the sidebar is what you're talking about, the video lags and buffers for me when it's fullscreened
On January 30 2016 12:51 Acritter wrote: Is anyone restreaming this with a client that doesn't lag computers to hell and back
And by this I don't mean actual lag, just inexplicable buffering when I try to fullscreen
u can watch youtube streams..do u want link?
It's significantly behind, but I don't think I'm gonna be discussing it
Thanks, that's way better
is there a reason you don't want to use livestreamer? it's pretty nice
Do you mean MarsTV (Azubu)? Because if the thing that you get linked to from the sidebar is what you're talking about, the video lags and buffers for me when it's fullscreened
He's talking about the livestreamer utility that lets you watch streams in your preferred media player without having to use the horrible flash interface that most sites use
I seem to remember using one of those years back only to find it horribly lacking, but maybe the technology has progressed
and now youtube's audio is fucked, is there no rest for the weary
On January 30 2016 13:21 snow2.0 wrote: This is painful to watch. Never realized they were so reliant on Sumail running around the map picking people off.
They were always reliant on Sumail in the early game, if Sumail is shut down. EG usually lose.
On January 30 2016 13:21 snow2.0 wrote: This is painful to watch. Never realized they were so reliant on Sumail running around the map picking people off.
it's more like they were reliant on artour not running past a static storm to eclipse a disruptor that didnt die because of bear and then forcing universe to do an awkward dive ravage and then feeding everyone
Honestly RTZ is replaceable at this point. Even if EG wins the series, I'd say either put RTZ back on farming mids where he shines or kick him so EG have chance of actually winning the Major.
On January 30 2016 13:31 molecu wrote: Honestly RTZ is replaceable at this point. Even if EG wins the series, I'd say either put RTZ back on farming mids where he shines or kick him so EG have chance of actually winning the Major.
Mechanically I think he's the best player on the team, though I do feel like he's somewhat letting the NA toxicity get to him, and I worry for his future.
On January 30 2016 13:31 molecu wrote: Honestly RTZ is replaceable at this point. Even if EG wins the series, I'd say either put RTZ back on farming mids where he shines or kick him so EG have chance of actually winning the Major.
On January 30 2016 13:48 Masamune wrote: I miss old EG from TI. Can we just kick rtz and have Zai play 4th?
The EG that lost to London Conspiracy?
This one is pretty consistent, though they're still trying to work out what they want to do in this meta. (The Midlane being a mess doesn't help matters.)
It's not been a great tournament, but they also just drafted a Luna and, had they not wiped 4 at the top lane, probably win 2-0 vs VG. Let's just get to game 3.
On January 30 2016 13:48 Masamune wrote: I miss old EG from TI. Can we just kick rtz and have Zai play 4th?
The EG that lost to London Conspiracy?
This one is pretty consistent, though they're still trying to work out what they want to do in this meta. (The Midlane being a mess doesn't help matters.)
It's not been a great tournament, but they also just drafted a Luna and, had they not wiped 4 at the top lane, probably win 2-0 vs VG. Let's just get to game 3.
prerrty sure,this was a 2-0 win for VG if they didnt throw their bodies at EG tower without doing anything and gift kills to EG in game 1...idk what u are talking about
but yeah,3rd game can belong to EG ..i fear, VG can deal with EG's drafts in game 3
On January 30 2016 13:48 Masamune wrote: I miss old EG from TI. Can we just kick rtz and have Zai play 4th?
The EG that lost to London Conspiracy?
This one is pretty consistent, though they're still trying to work out what they want to do in this meta. (The Midlane being a mess doesn't help matters.)
It's not been a great tournament, but they also just drafted a Luna and, had they not wiped 4 at the top lane, probably win 2-0 vs VG. Let's just get to game 3.
prerrty sure,this was a 2-0 win for VG if they didnt throw their bodies at EG tower without doing anything and gift kills to EG in game 1...idk what u are talking about
So what we've determined is that EG would have won 2-0 if they didn't make stupid mistakes, and VG would have won 2-0 if they didn't make stupid mistakes. In a world where every single dota game has multiple mistakes by every player, this discussion is kind of pointless?
On January 30 2016 13:48 Masamune wrote: I miss old EG from TI. Can we just kick rtz and have Zai play 4th?
The EG that lost to London Conspiracy?
This one is pretty consistent, though they're still trying to work out what they want to do in this meta. (The Midlane being a mess doesn't help matters.)
It's not been a great tournament, but they also just drafted a Luna and, had they not wiped 4 at the top lane, probably win 2-0 vs VG. Let's just get to game 3.
prerrty sure,this was a 2-0 win for VG if they didnt throw their bodies at EG tower without doing anything and gift kills to EG in game 1...idk what u are talking about
So what we've determined is that EG would have won 2-0 if they didn't make stupid mistakes, and VG would have won 2-0 if they didn't make stupid mistakes. In a world where every single dota game has multiple mistakes by every player, this discussion is kind of pointless?
then we should also stop saying 2-0 win for some teams then? how that discussion of 2-0 ez has a point and what i said not?
and why would EG kick rtz? they just have to work on their team synergy and they are good to go..they are still championship caliber players
On January 30 2016 13:59 lolnoty wrote: I feel like the consensus opinions on players/teams on liquiddota is insane.
I've been around the SC2 scene since the beginning. The LR thread opinion of players can shift multiple times during the same game. It's the nature of this.
On January 30 2016 13:48 Masamune wrote: I miss old EG from TI. Can we just kick rtz and have Zai play 4th?
The EG that lost to London Conspiracy?
This one is pretty consistent, though they're still trying to work out what they want to do in this meta. (The Midlane being a mess doesn't help matters.)
It's not been a great tournament, but they also just drafted a Luna and, had they not wiped 4 at the top lane, probably win 2-0 vs VG. Let's just get to game 3.
prerrty sure,this was a 2-0 win for VG if they didnt throw their bodies at EG tower without doing anything and gift kills to EG in game 1...idk what u are talking about
So what we've determined is that EG would have won 2-0 if they didn't make stupid mistakes, and VG would have won 2-0 if they didn't make stupid mistakes. In a world where every single dota game has multiple mistakes by every player, this discussion is kind of pointless?
then we should also stop saying 2-0 win for some teams then? how that discussion of 2-0 ez has a point and what i said not?
and why would EG kick rtz? they just have to work on their team synergy and they are good to go..they are still championship caliber players
Please point to where I in any way even remotely said that the EG 2-0 ez statement had a point. Or where I said they should/would kick Arteezy.
On January 30 2016 14:37 lolnoty wrote: EG did like 3 bad ults and somehow won the fight, sick
I think 2 of those weren't "bad", but just really good plays by VG to not get slaughtered by them. Then Daryl got barreled.
not bad, but didn't get the use they wanted. the swap on gyro wasnt useful because his team was there and he bkb'd before a followup, then roar on already bkb'd target, then rtz's ult bounces to a creepwave
On January 30 2016 14:44 Achaian wrote: Note to self: Lina aghs still does damage
It's been odd. Mid Laners have been running a pretty sad set of choices, but then ppd remember "oh yeah, Sumail plays Lina well and erasing heroes is valuable". Shiki is going to be happy at Shanghai.
VG plays LD like a 3rd carry. There seems to be an issue of getting farm playing like that. They end up getting 3 semi farmed carries. Maybe a bit too greedy, Burning has definitely been suffering.
On January 30 2016 14:45 lolnoty wrote: 0/6/7 but that also doesnt say how many bears he fed. I feel like it was 5-6
Yeah, it was a fucking horrific performance. After a game like that it makes me wonder if VG would be better off trying to find some new offlane talent.
On January 30 2016 14:45 lolnoty wrote: 0/6/7 but that also doesnt say how many bears he fed. I feel like it was 5-6
Yeah, it was a fucking horrific performance. After a game like that it makes me wonder if VG would be better off trying to find some new offlane talent.
tbf EG targeted him the hardest, blew 3-4 solo songs on him
What was going on with Lone Druid & VG is likely this: Lone Druid is a power-pick right now. But you need to build your draft around him. The Split-push/Alliance style from Starladder already seemed a bit dead at MDL. (Not having Bulldog, I think, is the problem there.) But EG has run it as 1 or 3 here at MDL. Much like with Vengeful, it's a multi-position draft ruiner.
On January 30 2016 14:49 Azarkon wrote: In the end, it'd be funny were we to get an all Western finals despite groups.
I'm not sure what you mean? There's only 4 chinese teams in this tournament. OG and EG, clearly the two best teams in this tournament IMO, were also on the opposite sides of the bracket as well.
On January 30 2016 14:45 lolnoty wrote: 0/6/7 but that also doesnt say how many bears he fed. I feel like it was 5-6
Yeah, it was a fucking horrific performance. After a game like that it makes me wonder if VG would be better off trying to find some new offlane talent.
tbf EG targeted him the hardest, blew 3-4 solo songs on him
Because he was farming like a fucking retard half the time. EG was just exploiting the obvious weakness.
On January 30 2016 14:53 Taf the Ghost wrote: What was going on with Lone Druid & VG is likely this: Lone Druid is a power-pick right now. But you need to build your draft around him. The Split-push/Alliance style from Starladder already seemed a bit dead at MDL. (Not having Bulldog, I think, is the problem there.) But EG has run it as 1 or 3 here at MDL. Much like with Vengeful, it's a multi-position draft ruiner.
Alliance drafts work because s4 does not get farm priority
On January 30 2016 14:45 lolnoty wrote: 0/6/7 but that also doesnt say how many bears he fed. I feel like it was 5-6
Yeah, it was a fucking horrific performance. After a game like that it makes me wonder if VG would be better off trying to find some new offlane talent.
tbf EG targeted him the hardest, blew 3-4 solo songs on him
Huge value in early pick-offs on Lone Druid. He's basically a Hard Carry, though with early split-push ability. Getting the Midas delayed puts a 2k value sink on him until about 25 minutes in, when he's at 8k net worth. You pretty much erase a huge % of VG's net worth from all team fights by those ganks.
On January 30 2016 14:45 lolnoty wrote: 0/6/7 but that also doesnt say how many bears he fed. I feel like it was 5-6
Yeah, it was a fucking horrific performance. After a game like that it makes me wonder if VG would be better off trying to find some new offlane talent.
tbf EG targeted him the hardest, blew 3-4 solo songs on him
Because he was farming like a fucking retard half the time. EG was just exploiting the obvious weakness.
those bear feeding's were qustionable at times ..and in bot lane where VG lost 2 heroes and rosh to EG...ice3's hero and bear both were in between 4 EG heroes tanking all the damage..i dont think thats how u play LD lmao...he just ate laguna to the face and died
On January 30 2016 14:45 lolnoty wrote: 0/6/7 but that also doesnt say how many bears he fed. I feel like it was 5-6
Yeah, it was a fucking horrific performance. After a game like that it makes me wonder if VG would be better off trying to find some new offlane talent.
tbf EG targeted him the hardest, blew 3-4 solo songs on him
Huge value in early pick-offs on Lone Druid. He's basically a Hard Carry, though with early split-push ability. Getting the Midas delayed puts a 2k value sink on him until about 25 minutes in, when he's at 8k net worth. You pretty much erase a huge % of VG's net worth from all team fights by those ganks.
yeah but if you fail with early-mid game song ganks, you lose song for rosh/tower defense/fights
On January 30 2016 14:45 lolnoty wrote: 0/6/7 but that also doesnt say how many bears he fed. I feel like it was 5-6
Yeah, it was a fucking horrific performance. After a game like that it makes me wonder if VG would be better off trying to find some new offlane talent.
tbf EG targeted him the hardest, blew 3-4 solo songs on him
Huge value in early pick-offs on Lone Druid. He's basically a Hard Carry, though with early split-push ability. Getting the Midas delayed puts a 2k value sink on him until about 25 minutes in, when he's at 8k net worth. You pretty much erase a huge % of VG's net worth from all team fights by those ganks.
yeah but if you fail with early-mid game song ganks, you lose song for rosh/tower defense/fights
Correct. But that's exactly why VG was picking up Lone Druid. It's strong enough right now in the Meta that it forces you to respond to it. Earth Spirit is the same way, but no one has really figured out a response to the top-level players. Aside from "just kill the other 4 really quickly".
it felt like their drafts got wayy more predictable after group stages..they kept picking same thing because it worked in early stages..this was the same problem with super drafting at frankfurt,imo..he drafted same predictable heroes even when they were getting rekt with them..i mean,what was the purpose of going for gyro and LD first picks? because it worked for you in game 2 where they got off sucessful ganks early? and VG had some serious economy issues that game...LD was soo far behind and had nowhere to go ,but jungle and he still constantly fed pushing deep even with song up on EG side..gyro had nowhere to go but ancients ,but it was too late for him ..
On January 30 2016 15:05 Kamisamanachi wrote: it felt like their drafts got wayy more predictable after group stages..they kept picking same thing because it worked in early stages..this was the same problem with super drafting at frankfurt,imo..he drafted same predictable heroes even when they were getting rekt with them..i mean,what was the purpose of going for gyro and LD first picks? because it worked for you in game 2 where they got off sucessful ganks early? and VG had some serious economy issues that game...LD was soo far behind and had nowhere to go ,but jungle and he still constantly fed pushing deep even with song up on EG side..gyro had nowhere to go but ancients ,but it was too late for him ..
It's a problem a lot of Captains have. Though there are a few around that change up too much every match, especially unpracticed strategies.
Edit: Beyond just a common problem, it's something ppd has exploited the entire time I've seen him draft. Especially since most teams have 1-3 heroes they operate their strategies around.
That last game 3 look like 6.84 fighting draft. Glad EG is trying to find their own style back in this tournament instead of trying to play like Alliance.
On January 30 2016 15:05 Kamisamanachi wrote: it felt like their drafts got wayy more predictable after group stages..they kept picking same thing because it worked in early stages..this was the same problem with super drafting at frankfurt,imo..he drafted same predictable heroes even when they were getting rekt with them..i mean,what was the purpose of going for gyro and LD first picks? because it worked for you in game 2 where they got off sucessful ganks early? and VG had some serious economy issues that game...LD was soo far behind and had nowhere to go ,but jungle and he still constantly fed pushing deep even with song up on EG side..gyro had nowhere to go but ancients ,but it was too late for him ..
It's a problem a lot of Captains have. Though there are a few around that change up too much every match, especially unpracticed strategies.
yeah..adapting seems to be the best trait which saparates good captain from mediocre and i feel like fy's drafting has also been predictable and mediocre at times..i think he is too conservative when it comes to drafting vs big teams..it works early,but when teams starting to figure it out,he has no choice .i thought dark seer was the choice in game 3 instead of LD and he sure would have done more than LD did which was feeding bear,but he kept hitting heads on walls
On January 30 2016 14:53 Taf the Ghost wrote: What was going on with Lone Druid & VG is likely this: Lone Druid is a power-pick right now. But you need to build your draft around him. The Split-push/Alliance style from Starladder already seemed a bit dead at MDL. (Not having Bulldog, I think, is the problem there.) But EG has run it as 1 or 3 here at MDL. Much like with Vengeful, it's a multi-position draft ruiner.
Taf you seem like a reasonable guy , why would you say that alliance played splitpush dota at SL ? did you even watch the games , i feel no matter what lineup or strat alliance uses everyone calls it splitpush .... sorry for being salty about it , its too early in the morning for me .
Yeah, there's no way it gets to Shanghai in the same form. Though with that fixed, it's a pretty cancer-free LAN meta. Not that pubs won't always have something cancerous.
On January 30 2016 14:53 Taf the Ghost wrote: What was going on with Lone Druid & VG is likely this: Lone Druid is a power-pick right now. But you need to build your draft around him. The Split-push/Alliance style from Starladder already seemed a bit dead at MDL. (Not having Bulldog, I think, is the problem there.) But EG has run it as 1 or 3 here at MDL. Much like with Vengeful, it's a multi-position draft ruiner.
Taf you seem like a reasonable guy , why would you say that alliance played splitpush dota at SL ? did you even watch the games , i feel no matter what lineup or strat alliance uses everyone calls it splitpush .... sorry for being salty about it , its too early in the morning for me .
Bulldog's hero pool produces a situation where there's always the risk of counter-push via split-push. Mostly because he's so damn good on those types of heroes. So "counter-push" work for you? It's short-hand since that's what everyone calls what they do. And it's generally a feature of the fall-back option within their drafts.
People may start realizing that most of OG's drafts operate the same way. Though Fly constantly drafts defensive high ground approach in most cases. Considering how much easier it is to hold high ground right now, it's just a different value play.
On January 30 2016 16:14 MrCon wrote: 5manGD I don't understand NB. They know if you see one of LGD, the other 4 are there too, but they don't play according to this simple knowledge.
Newbee has brilliant bans and atrocious picks. I don't think they know what they're doing against LGD. And they're probably out after this next game.
On January 30 2016 15:53 Daralii wrote: Why is Merlini's mic so quiet compared to LD?
Yeah it's annoying, either you pump up the volume to hear Merlini and LD is way too loud, or you don't and you hear a whisper in the background in between LD sentences.
I mean if Secret holds on all they have to do is carry tps to deal with furion yeah? Edit: Oh christ that was a solo mid ES that sounds like ebola does he have dagon 5 already
On January 30 2016 16:47 DavoS wrote: I mean if Secret holds on all they have to do is carry tps to deal with furion yeah? Edit: Oh christ that was a solo mid ES that sounds like ebola does he have dagon 5 already
On January 30 2016 16:47 DavoS wrote: I mean if Secret holds on all they have to do is carry tps to deal with furion yeah? Edit: Oh christ that was a solo mid ES that sounds like ebola does he have dagon 5 already
What are you talking about? I'm confused.
I was about to ask the same thing about your slardar invoker comment neither of these heroes are being played right now? Edit: ok i left my apartment about 4 hours ago and my stream was playing Newbee vs Secret and obviously thats not happening anymore now im looking at a screen saying eg vs vici is coming up which makes no sense cuz vg has also been eliminated so i guess i blame azubu now?
On January 30 2016 16:47 DavoS wrote: I mean if Secret holds on all they have to do is carry tps to deal with furion yeah? Edit: Oh christ that was a solo mid ES that sounds like ebola does he have dagon 5 already
What are you talking about? I'm confused.
I was about to ask the same thing about your slardar invoker comment neither of these heroes are being played right now?
You are either ridiculously behind or watching VoDs.
On January 30 2016 16:47 DavoS wrote: I mean if Secret holds on all they have to do is carry tps to deal with furion yeah? Edit: Oh christ that was a solo mid ES that sounds like ebola does he have dagon 5 already
What are you talking about? I'm confused.
I was about to ask the same thing about your slardar invoker comment neither of these heroes are being played right now? Edit: ok i left my apartment about 4 hours ago and my stream was playing Newbee vs Secret and obviously thats not happening anymore now im looking at a screen saying eg vs vici is coming up which makes no sense cuz vg has also been eliminated so i guess i blame azubu now?
i think you're watching the vod from earlier, which would make a lot more sense.
But all i did was leave the stream on liquiddota on why would it just causally fall over an hour behind? I'm looking at the slardar invoker combo now so i tihnk im caught up but im still confused how leaving a stream on can fall that far behind
On January 30 2016 17:04 DavoS wrote: But all i did was leave the stream on liquiddota on why would it just causally fall over an hour behind? I'm looking at the slardar invoker combo now so i tihnk im caught up but im still confused how leaving a stream on can fall that far behind
Not sure. If you are watching on azubu and not through TL you can select the Vods from earlier right next to the chat. Not sure if that's what you're doing.
On January 30 2016 17:04 DavoS wrote: But all i did was leave the stream on liquiddota on why would it just causally fall over an hour behind? I'm looking at the slardar invoker combo now so i tihnk im caught up but im still confused how leaving a stream on can fall that far behind
AzubuTV is weird that way. You have to ensure that Live box on the bottom is red to be current with the stream.
thats such a weird setting why would I ever not want to be watching current action on a stream, especially when vods exist? edit: dutchfriese I am watching through TL. Its hard when youre drunk and two guys with phoenix flairs are trying to troubleshoot you
On January 30 2016 17:08 DavoS wrote: thats such a weird setting why would I ever not want to be watching current action on a stream, especially when vods exist? edit: dutchfriese I am watching through TL. Its hard when youre drunk and two guys with phoenix flairs are trying to troubleshoot you
it's odd indeed. Everytime I open azubu the stream doesn't automatically go but when I push play it will take my straight to live if the stream is currently going. I've mostly watched this tournament thus far through the Vod's though which I was I was wondering if you had a Vod on from yesterday or something or had paused it from earlier.
Probably cause you started the stream before the actual "live broadcast" begins. And your stream is stuck on the rebroadcast "this is what happened yesterday" mode that continues on to today's game. If you had F5 the stream, it would have switched to Live.
It's like west coast airing of the Times Square NYE ball drop.... at 11:59pm PST; when in reality, the ball already dropped 3 hours ago lol.
On January 30 2016 17:17 Elurie wrote: Probably cause you started the stream before the actual "live broadcast" begins. And your stream is stuck on the rebroadcast "this is what happened yesterday" mode that continues on to today's game. If you had F5 the stream, it would have switched to Live.
It's like west coast airing of the Times Square NYE ball drop.... at 11:59pm PST; when in reality, the ball already dropped 3 hours ago lol.
I started streaming about 550 PST which was about 40 minutes before the draft of the first series started (10 minutes after LD claims the game was scheduled to start). I guess if the stream stopped to buffer it might have made sense but I'm still surprised that over 4 hours it spent 1.5 hours buffering my internet and PC are running fine
Suddenly LGD startz 5-man ganking/pushing. Newbee wasn't ready. And why the hell did bat not have enough mana for lasso while LGD casually take rosh >.<
Bat stayed on high ground so he might have just been hoping to scare them into thinking he had lasso. I think Newbee either wasn't afraid of the lasso or they called his bluff
can't believe Sylar lived and 3 more on Newbee died. For a second it looked like Newbee could turn that into something good and then they got WD'd so bad
On January 30 2016 17:45 HaXxorIzed wrote: Hao with zero fear on that mask of madness build.
It was incredibly stupid IMO. Free farm to battlefury is definitely the build against Lycan, eventually butterfly. I'm not sure what he was expecting to happen with MoM against a lineup that is mostly physical dps.
On January 30 2016 17:55 Asha wrote: LOOK AT IT GO.
also fucking coconuts.
can't believe Sylar lived and 3 more on Newbee died. For a second it looked like Newbee could turn that into something good and then they got WD'd so bad
Too bad that lycan was on the wrong side after fissure. That small missplay led to 3 more deaths on newbee side and rax basically.
Seems OG is just always one step ahead. They make the obvious plays and EHOME obviously predicts those but OG predicts the EHOME predicts and is prepared
On January 30 2016 19:24 Azarkon wrote: China still no match for the West's best teams.
thanks for jinx
OG are a western team i actually like, pls stop
also, please stop kotlguy from casting - his cast is literally "and the bear goes in BOOM ... 5 seconds later ... SAVAGE ROAR ... 10 seconds later ... BEAR"
On January 30 2016 19:33 Sloke wrote: Seems OG is just always one step ahead. They make the obvious plays and EHOME obviously predicts those but OG predicts the EHOME predicts and is prepared
On January 30 2016 19:33 Sloke wrote: Seems OG is just always one step ahead. They make the obvious plays and EHOME obviously predicts those but OG predicts the EHOME predicts and is prepared
as a heads up: if you have trouble with azubu/bts stream for whatever reason. Bulldog-stack is viewing the MDL games atm on twitch. (obv coming with the memes etc.)
On January 30 2016 20:09 Sloke wrote: as a heads up: if you have trouble with azubu/bts stream for whatever reason. Bulldog-stack is viewing the MDL games atm on twitch. (obv coming with the memes etc.)
Isnt it Bulldog + two girls who do nothing talk shit?
On January 30 2016 20:09 Sloke wrote: as a heads up: if you have trouble with azubu/bts stream for whatever reason. Bulldog-stack is viewing the MDL games atm on twitch. (obv coming with the memes etc.)
Isnt it Bulldog + two girls who do nothing talk shit?
s4 and EGM are part of it too I think. But yeah, besides the insight from bulldog/s4/egm and the better streamquality it's not really recommended.
On January 30 2016 20:09 Sloke wrote: as a heads up: if you have trouble with azubu/bts stream for whatever reason. Bulldog-stack is viewing the MDL games atm on twitch. (obv coming with the memes etc.)
If people couldn't stand unfunny memes, then they wouldn't have been watching BTS either lol
It's a good I don't stand by my principles 'cause I'm definitely enjoying Bulldog's meme cast more than BTS. 22k people on his stream seem to agree with me. Plus no "high level" analysis from a caster can ever match actual proplayer insight.
On January 30 2016 20:18 molecu wrote: It's a good I don't stand by my principles 'cause I'm definitely enjoying Bulldog's meme cast more than BTS. 22k people on his stream seem to agree with me. Plus no "high level" analysis from a caster can ever match actual proplayer insight.
Yeah
i think the only problem i have with pro-casts are that sometimes they focus on things that doesn't really describe shit(oh blank "he's good" statements) or isn't about the game but i can understand since that's not their jobs
On January 30 2016 20:18 molecu wrote: It's a good I don't stand by my principles 'cause I'm definitely enjoying Bulldog's meme cast more than BTS. 22k people on his stream seem to agree with me. Plus no "high level" analysis from a caster can ever match actual proplayer insight.
Yeah
i think the only problem i have with pro-casts are that sometimes they focus on things that doesn't really describe shit(oh blank "he's good" statements) or isn't about the game but i can understand since that's not their jobs
Some are also over emphasizing the leading team advantage. Fear, EE and Moon are the worst for that, they make blanket statement like: "they can't kill Jugg now, it's impossible" and then are proven wrong.
Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
hi guys we have a nice BALANCE of POWER update that will actually allow people to draft es and oracle on the same team haha have fun !
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
Cr1t- is a great player. I called it 2 years ago on TL.
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
Cr1t- is a great player. I called it 2 years ago on TL.
Cr1t is great yeah but let's honestly not try and pretend that ES is anything but the runner-up to pre-nerf Wisp in terms of game-breaking strength
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
Cr1t- is a great player. I called it 2 years ago on TL.
I'm not denying that he's a skillful player, I'm just trying to point out that having an ability to "swap" an enemy hero standing next to the barracks into your fountain is ridiculous. Not even mentioning the other skills that hero has.
Would have the same stand if EHOME had played it, for me its just awful to watch games like this.
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
Cr1t- is a great player. I called it 2 years ago on TL.
Cr1t is great yeah but let's honestly not try and pretend that ES is anything but the runner-up to pre-nerf Wisp in terms of game-breaking strength
No one bans it. And he is countered by magic immunity.
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
Cr1t- is a great player. I called it 2 years ago on TL.
Cr1t is great yeah but let's honestly not try and pretend that ES is anything but the runner-up to pre-nerf Wisp in terms of game-breaking strength
No one bans it. And he is countered by magic immunity.
TBH, Oracle is more questionable.
Linkens, lotus, bkb. It MIGHT be dispellable, don't know really.
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
Cr1t- is a great player. I called it 2 years ago on TL.
I'm not denying that he's a skillful player, I'm just trying to point out that having an ability to "swap" an enemy hero standing next to the barracks into your fountain is ridiculous. Not even mentioning the other skills that hero has.
Would have the same stand if EHOME had played it, for me its just awful to watch games like this.
It has the risk-free catch potential of Meat Hook combined with the raw repositioning power of Flaming Lasso on a 4 position hero that can also use it as a non-sacrificial Nether Swap or just to take a hero out of the fight for a few seconds and oh yeah it cancels blink and deals okay aoe damage and has a lower cooldown than Lasso
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
Cr1t- is a great player. I called it 2 years ago on TL.
Cr1t is great yeah but let's honestly not try and pretend that ES is anything but the runner-up to pre-nerf Wisp in terms of game-breaking strength
No one bans it. And he is countered by magic immunity.
TBH, Oracle is more questionable.
Oracle is also a problem, but those two statements are just plain false, ES is banned very often for one and I think we'll see it banned more in future
You could "counter" old Wisp with BKB, but that didn't make the hero any less broken because a) not everyone has BKB and b) you can negate the efforts of an enemy hero even when they're BKB'd up
Why focus on heroes(and radiance in g1), when it was amazing play from both sides.
"Oracle is also a problem, but those two statements are just plain false, ES is banned very often for one and I think we'll see it banned more in future
You could "counter" old Wisp with BKB, but that didn't make the hero any less broken because a) not everyone has BKB and b) you can negate the efforts of an enemy hero even when they're BKB'd up". ES has seen much play this tournament.
Many criticised the item pickups by OG esp on slark. But OG very well knew to win this game they have to drag this game out to let invoker/ES/slark become those ridiculous lategame cancers.
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
Cr1t- is a great player. I called it 2 years ago on TL.
Cr1t is great yeah but let's honestly not try and pretend that ES is anything but the runner-up to pre-nerf Wisp in terms of game-breaking strength
No one bans it. And he is countered by magic immunity.
TBH, Oracle is more questionable.
Earth Spirit is the most banned hero of the tournament.
And a part of the issue people have with ES relates to the aghs upgrade, which is not countered by magic immunity in any way.
These are some of the best games of dota I've seen.
And it is amazing how different they are from the games a couple weeks earlier, or even from the Alliance's victories recently.
Did the meta move past that now? Or are many styles viable at the same time? I don't know, but I am excited for this major. Hope Icefrog doesn't change too much until that.
On January 30 2016 21:25 Jotoco wrote: These are some of the best games of dota I've seen.
And it is amazing how different they are from the games a couple weeks earlier, or even from the Alliance's victories recently.
Did the meta move past that now? Or are many styles viable at the same time? I don't know, but I am excited for this major. Hope Icefrog doesn't change too much until that.
the patch is still very new and will evolve with every tournament. if you remember at the beginning of 6.84 it was all about drow-visage 20minute deathball pushes. i expect this patch to make some more turns in random directions before it settles down and becomes "stale". the game we see in 3 months will probably have nothing to do with what we see today.
On January 30 2016 21:07 Acritter wrote: Miracle played good he always plays good but let's not fool ourselves, that game was entirely off the back of Earth Spirit being the poorest series of decisions Icefrog has ever made about a single hero
Miracle nearly cost them the game again. That hold was amazing.
Yea, but that would have been 2 lanes of rax if it weren't for the ES fountain kick.
Cr1t- is a great player. I called it 2 years ago on TL.
Cr1t is great yeah but let's honestly not try and pretend that ES is anything but the runner-up to pre-nerf Wisp in terms of game-breaking strength
No one bans it. And he is countered by magic immunity.
TBH, Oracle is more questionable.
Earth Spirit is the most banned hero of the tournament.
And a part of the issue people have with ES relates to the aghs upgrade, which is not countered by magic immunity in any way.
Marginally. If it still is after this game. Only 37 times out of 65.
Cty is totally the best player at the moment. He might be given space by his team but his great mechanics totally carry his noob teammates to victory. I haven't even seen old chicken successful outside Ehome. Why if Ehome wins MDL, I'd claim that Cty is GOAT.
On January 30 2016 22:18 molecu wrote: Cty is totally the best player at the moment. He might be given space by his team but his great mechanics totally carry his noob teammates to victory. I haven't even seen old chicken successful outside Ehome. Why if Ehome wins MDL, I'd claim that Cty is GOAT.
Reminds me of your posts of yesterday, but now Miracle is replaced by CTY, and the team mates are now eHome, rather than OG.
Holding to my word. Earth Spirit is going to need massive nerfs, or else will be constant first ban material.
Aghs needs to only affect allies and amplify all damage that they take.
Okay, EG have instantly made this game a 50-50 just by letting ES through. They should have a massive advantage, but I'm pretty sure most of that has just vanished.
On January 30 2016 22:50 Faruko wrote: wasnt 6.83 where teams didnt ban sniper and end up losing because FUCK pushing highground against that asshole
then you lose a fight and HO HO HA HA and ggwp.
You're only telling part of the Sniper horror story
The nightmare starts in midlane, where he uses 3x Shrapnel to get First Blood solo every game against every hero
Then he pushes towers safely while the rest of his team kinda huddles around him
Then he pushes high ground safely while the rest of his team kinda huddles around him
And if you use all smokes to keep him down early and push out towers so he can't use jungle and shut him down the whole game then yes it turns to what you're saying
One of the things that always baffled me about pro Dota is how deemed OP heroes keep getting through the draft and they end up winning. I mean look at their win rates. Teams just stubbornly let them through. Like going back to an abusive partner and thinking its gonna okay this time. I can't wrap my head around it.
The more I watch these games nowdays the more it looks like the Sniper/Troll era where people who had advantage and pushing the base are at disadvantage.
On January 30 2016 23:36 Kreb wrote: Pretty sure bfly gyro isnt the item. Theres like all magic burst on EG and he gets no HP from bfly. Evasion matters little against Lina/Morph.
Should have been skadi, I was really expecting it, but no.
On January 30 2016 23:39 Salazarz wrote: I don't get why didn't LGD let their ES farm up an aghs. Surely sieging would be much easier with the silly pull to grab the kunkka or shaker?
anyway LGD did exactly the same thing as yesterday, push up to high ground and then run away and then eventually throw game because they cant do anything to morphling
On January 30 2016 22:47 molecu wrote: Nah, if teams keep letting it through they surely know how to counter it.
Is this sarcasm? Because Chinese teams a few years back kept consistently letting Wisp and Batrider through. They didn't know how to counter it.
They thought they did. They undervalued Wisp. Even Misery said that the Chinese were too good for it becoming a problem for them. When they realized that it prooved too much of a problem for them to handle they banned him.
On January 30 2016 23:43 wims80 wrote: EG played a classic LGD strategy, turtle, turtle, turtle, win late game
EG are the Chinese of the West. Copies anything others have been successful with. That is part of the lower bracket plan; time for PPD to figure out what is strong from watching other teams. Sometimes it doesn't work, because the team is not familiar with the strategy.
I think that soon we'll have either a fast finish games, style Alliance recently is starting to run or games like this one where people are waiting for momentum where gold and xp starts to favor the team that is behind and press their advantage once they have successfully defended their base.
As much as I want to talk about strategy and lineups and bla bla bla, it's really difficult to win games when one of your players is completely useless every single game. I really like rotk, but his performance since joining LGD has been abysmal.
On January 30 2016 23:43 rabidch wrote: anyway LGD did exactly the same thing as yesterday, push up to high ground and then run away and then eventually throw game because they cant do anything to morphling
Well EG did not give them the opportunity for a single good engagement or pickoff, it was amazing map movements. My main concern is that I find it boring that a team can go all in on a better scaling hero while only having to be concerned about highground defense. They did not care that LGD was outfarming them because they knew that a somewhat decent trade at their base was enough to put them on almsot equal footing. Ehome just went for this same kind of strat against OG, not giving a fuck about early and midgame outside of having some guaranteed farm on their main carry and be on par after some highground defense.
On January 30 2016 23:48 Orome wrote: As much as I want to talk about strategy and lineups and bla bla bla, it's really difficult to win games when one of your players is completely useless every single game. I really like rotk, but his performance since joining LGD has been abysmal.
rotk has always performed at this level, though, he's a consistently weak initiator on basically every hero but Dark Seer
Don't you remember the rotk feed tax back in the day?
On January 30 2016 23:48 Orome wrote: As much as I want to talk about strategy and lineups and bla bla bla, it's really difficult to win games when one of your players is completely useless every single game. I really like rotk, but his performance since joining LGD has been abysmal.
rotk really is not a late game player, his best teams centered around executing death pushes or relying on burning. the way LGD plays is so conservative its not any surprise he'd be mediocre on it
On January 30 2016 23:48 Orome wrote: As much as I want to talk about strategy and lineups and bla bla bla, it's really difficult to win games when one of your players is completely useless every single game. I really like rotk, but his performance since joining LGD has been abysmal.
rotk has always performed at this level, though, he's a consistently weak initiator on basically every hero but Dark Seer
Don't you remember the rotk feed tax back in the day?
He actually performed pretty damn well for Ehome during TI5. Sure he also fucked up, but overall he was really valuable, especially as clock. Meanwhile, I literally can't remember a single standout performance since he joined LGD.
On January 30 2016 23:48 Orome wrote: As much as I want to talk about strategy and lineups and bla bla bla, it's really difficult to win games when one of your players is completely useless every single game. I really like rotk, but his performance since joining LGD has been abysmal.
rotk really is not a late game player, his best teams centered around executing death pushes or relying on burning. the way LGD plays is so conservative its not any surprise he'd be mediocre on it
You target ban Dark Seer. He is 14-2 this patch on the Hero.
That's when LGD is scary. They're 22-16 without rOtk on Dark Seer.
And there doesn't seem to be any data feed for game 1? (I just got back)
On January 30 2016 23:43 rabidch wrote: anyway LGD did exactly the same thing as yesterday, push up to high ground and then run away and then eventually throw game because they cant do anything to morphling
Well EG did not give them the opportunity for a single good engagement or pickoff, it was amazing map movements. My main concern is that I find it boring that a team can go all in on a better scaling hero while only having to be concerned about highground defense. They did not care that LGD was outfarming them because they knew that a somewhat decent trade at their base was enough to put them on almsot equal footing. Ehome just went for this same kind of strat against OG, not giving a fuck about early and midgame outside of having some guaranteed farm on their main carry and be on par after some highground defense.
Super High Ground defense, with their right main Cores, is a "thing" in the MDL meta. You can either push early or just defend and team wipe the other team. That's actually a way to play around Earth Spirit. But Earth Spirit really just needs to be banned if you're 2nd Pick.
On January 30 2016 23:48 Orome wrote: As much as I want to talk about strategy and lineups and bla bla bla, it's really difficult to win games when one of your players is completely useless every single game. I really like rotk, but his performance since joining LGD has been abysmal.
rotk really is not a late game player, his best teams centered around executing death pushes or relying on burning. the way LGD plays is so conservative its not any surprise he'd be mediocre on it
I don't really agree with that (his clock for example tends to be spotty early on but is usually very effective in lategame fights), but even if, he's not mediocre, he's downright atrocious.
On January 30 2016 23:43 rabidch wrote: anyway LGD did exactly the same thing as yesterday, push up to high ground and then run away and then eventually throw game because they cant do anything to morphling
Well EG did not give them the opportunity for a single good engagement or pickoff, it was amazing map movements. My main concern is that I find it boring that a team can go all in on a better scaling hero while only having to be concerned about highground defense. They did not care that LGD was outfarming them because they knew that a somewhat decent trade at their base was enough to put them on almsot equal footing. Ehome just went for this same kind of strat against OG, not giving a fuck about early and midgame outside of having some guaranteed farm on their main carry and be on par after some highground defense.
Only having to be concerned about highground defense? They had to be concerned about getting killed while managing to stall the push. They managed to stay one tower and 2-3 kills behind the all game. And outside of the highground defense, almost all their death were ppd. That takes considerable skill, more than running at towers (which is something EG gladly does as well).
On January 30 2016 23:43 rabidch wrote: anyway LGD did exactly the same thing as yesterday, push up to high ground and then run away and then eventually throw game because they cant do anything to morphling
Well EG did not give them the opportunity for a single good engagement or pickoff, it was amazing map movements. My main concern is that I find it boring that a team can go all in on a better scaling hero while only having to be concerned about highground defense. They did not care that LGD was outfarming them because they knew that a somewhat decent trade at their base was enough to put them on almsot equal footing. Ehome just went for this same kind of strat against OG, not giving a fuck about early and midgame outside of having some guaranteed farm on their main carry and be on par after some highground defense.
Was LGD really outfarming them? The gold lead was relatively manageable all game as far as I saw, and LGD had a very hard time dealing with the Morph as he got some items so EG was comfortable having him as the only really farmed hero. I don't think this is a particularly great example of a team dominating the entire map but just not being able to highground, given that Arteezy was the most farmed player in the game from a pretty early stage.
On January 30 2016 23:43 rabidch wrote: anyway LGD did exactly the same thing as yesterday, push up to high ground and then run away and then eventually throw game because they cant do anything to morphling
Well EG did not give them the opportunity for a single good engagement or pickoff, it was amazing map movements. My main concern is that I find it boring that a team can go all in on a better scaling hero while only having to be concerned about highground defense. They did not care that LGD was outfarming them because they knew that a somewhat decent trade at their base was enough to put them on almsot equal footing. Ehome just went for this same kind of strat against OG, not giving a fuck about early and midgame outside of having some guaranteed farm on their main carry and be on par after some highground defense.
Was LGD really outfarming them? The gold lead was relatively manageable all game as far as I saw, and LGD had a very hard time dealing with the Morph as he got some items so EG was comfortable having him as the only really farmed hero. I don't think this is a particularly great example of a team dominating the entire map but just not being able to highground, given that Arteezy was the most farmed player in the game from a pretty early stage.
i think the biggest problem was gyro items, he was always 1/3 of his HP at all times because of morph, he needed to be a tank, i dont think you needed that much more damage with Lycan/Vlads, especially if you wanted to push and not kill heroes
no way you can push just like that, especially when theres a lina, venge swap or kunkka boat to kill retreats
On January 30 2016 23:48 Orome wrote: As much as I want to talk about strategy and lineups and bla bla bla, it's really difficult to win games when one of your players is completely useless every single game. I really like rotk, but his performance since joining LGD has been abysmal.
rotk really is not a late game player, his best teams centered around executing death pushes or relying on burning. the way LGD plays is so conservative its not any surprise he'd be mediocre on it
I don't really agree with that (his clock for example tends to be spotty early on but is usually very effective in lategame fights), but even if, he's not mediocre, he's downright atrocious.
i base my opinion off of many tedious slowpaced lategame games where i see rotk's team do nothing and then lose game. im sure everybody remembers DK vs iG from TI3
On January 31 2016 00:55 Evander Berry Wall wrote: Is EG the worst team at fighting around the Rosh pit?
(I mean, among the top tier teams)
Are we just talking play at the pit or terrible calls? Because I think a case could be made for some of the CIS teams and Secret making worse Rosh calls/contests.
EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
On January 31 2016 00:55 Evander Berry Wall wrote: Is EG the worst team at fighting around the Rosh pit?
(I mean, among the top tier teams)
They won the latest TI at the rosh pit , so they are most def not the worst
If I'm remembering that game right that was mostly just an abysmal desperation rosh from CDEC, so I'm not sure how well that speaks to EG's pit prowess.
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Which is weird because EG with Aui looked much cleaner than with Arteezy. I don't remember Fear feeding as much compared to Arteezy.
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Weird part is they almost always operate well a 2-3 man groups, but pretty much any 2-3 man group. (Minus that screw up on Invoker.)
On January 31 2016 01:03 Danzo wrote: The way PPD called GG so fast, how much you wanna bet there's some arguments going on at the booth's after that game.
On January 31 2016 01:03 Danzo wrote: The way PPD called GG so fast, how much you wanna bet there's some arguments going on at the booth's after that game.
the game was over, no buybacks for the important heroes meant 1 or even 2 lanes of rax
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Which is weird because EG with Aui looked much cleaner than with Arteezy. I don't remember Fear feeding as much compared to Arteezy.
Well, at least as of a month or two ago, even PPD was saying they were a better team with Aui. I mean, if they're all happier and more relaxed with the current lineup, that counts for a lot, but I do wonder if EG start thinking about making a change again at some point here.
I think one thing EG needs to work on after this tournament is how they're going to initiate if Universe isn't on the initiator Hero. There's is a noticeably large drop off when Universe isn't the one jumping in.
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Which is weird because EG with Aui looked much cleaner than with Arteezy. I don't remember Fear feeding as much compared to Arteezy.
Well, at least as of a month or two ago, even PPD was saying they were a better team with Aui. I mean, if they're all happier and more relaxed with the current lineup, that counts for a lot, but I do wonder if EG start thinking about making a change again at some point here.
Like who? Kick Sumail? Fear going to retire? Might not want to get Universe lol.
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Which is weird because EG with Aui looked much cleaner than with Arteezy. I don't remember Fear feeding as much compared to Arteezy.
Well, at least as of a month or two ago, even PPD was saying they were a better team with Aui. I mean, if they're all happier and more relaxed with the current lineup, that counts for a lot, but I do wonder if EG start thinking about making a change again at some point here.
im go and say that they lack a support that can play micro heroes like chen, visage, etc...
One of the bigger issues for EG feels like arrogance in their fight taking decisions. There really wasn't any reason for them to have to take Roshan that early - especially with key items like Radiance on the way.
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Which is weird because EG with Aui looked much cleaner than with Arteezy. I don't remember Fear feeding as much compared to Arteezy.
Well, at least as of a month or two ago, even PPD was saying they were a better team with Aui. I mean, if they're all happier and more relaxed with the current lineup, that counts for a lot, but I do wonder if EG start thinking about making a change again at some point here.
im go and say that they lack a support that can play micro heroes like chen, visage, etc...
they had that with aui
Yeah, that might be part of it. And really I'm not even sure they need to change anything. I mean, it's not like they're getting consistently bad results or anything. It just always feels like a struggle. Anyway, we know EG can make decisions for reasons not at all visible to fans. I'm mostly just curious if another one of those is waiting in the wings.
On January 31 2016 01:28 TheTenthDoc wrote: EG pulling out the patented "psychically compel the opponents to feed" strats. Always a safe move in game 3.
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Which is weird because EG with Aui looked much cleaner than with Arteezy. I don't remember Fear feeding as much compared to Arteezy.
It's definitely true. I don't think it's RTZ's fault, though, not exactly. I think it's that Sumail and RTZ just can't function on the same team, because their style of play overlaps in all the wrong ways. Both of them want a lot of space cleared for them and a lot of farm for them to take, and although it's possible to do, you can't really manage that with the PPD/Fear support duo. Not to knock on them, either: they're great at what they do, but they don't have the precise kind of talents needed to actively create space for two super-greedy cores. EG worked well with Aui and Zai because it's just so much easier to make that kind of greed work with a 4-position hero. Fear played the same role that s4 played in old Secret, being the playmaker and using his early farm to leverage the kind of midgame map presence that current EG wishes they had, and Aui/Zai could always play a jungle hero to add even more pressure to the midgame. But RTZ has never been the best at putting on pressure in the midgame except as a ticking time bomb, and Sumail is still learning how to do it without leaning heavily on jungle flash farm.
It's just all kind of messy from a strategic standpoint, and I imagine that bleeds into play.
On January 31 2016 01:41 nojok wrote: Remember when kotl used to shut down early pushes?
pretty sure having kotl doesn't mean you can lose all your lanes and win the game unless the enemy team is incompetent (or drafted 0 actual building hitting)
Sumail was on Lina x2 & TA against LGD. So ppd has definitely moved back to the much higher damage Mids for Sumail. That's good, as finding damage in this meta is actually a bit hard. Given the defensive supports and everyone trying to run massive stuns/silences.
On January 31 2016 01:43 Taf the Ghost wrote: Sumail was on Lina x2 & TA against LGD. So ppd has definitely moved back to the much higher damage Mids for Sumail. That's good, as finding damage in this meta is actually a bit hard. Given the defensive supports and everyone trying to run massive stuns/silences.
ye i agree, those are definitely more sumail heroes than, say... batrider... which is still a uni hero and still really strong in the offlane, especially a dual offlane which eg can often afford to run
Btw thanks to the guys responsible for the international coverage. You can really feel that this is one of the most stacked LAN's for 6.86 and this on chinese soil.
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Which is weird because EG with Aui looked much cleaner than with Arteezy. I don't remember Fear feeding as much compared to Arteezy.
It's definitely true. I don't think it's RTZ's fault, though, not exactly. I think it's that Sumail and RTZ just can't function on the same team, because their style of play overlaps in all the wrong ways. Both of them want a lot of space cleared for them and a lot of farm for them to take, and although it's possible to do, you can't really manage that with the PPD/Fear support duo. Not to knock on them, either: they're great at what they do, but they don't have the precise kind of talents needed to actively create space for two super-greedy cores. EG worked well with Aui and Zai because it's just so much easier to make that kind of greed work with a 4-position hero. Fear played the same role that s4 played in old Secret, being the playmaker and using his early farm to leverage the kind of midgame map presence that current EG wishes they had, and Aui/Zai could always play a jungle hero to add even more pressure to the midgame. But RTZ has never been the best at putting on pressure in the midgame except as a ticking time bomb, and Sumail is still learning how to do it without leaning heavily on jungle flash farm.
It's just all kind of messy from a strategic standpoint, and I imagine that bleeds into play.
that's why I think swapping zai for fear makes a lot of sense not for skill/play cause fear has been fine but for strategic flexibility
On January 31 2016 01:43 Taf the Ghost wrote: Sumail was on Lina x2 & TA against LGD. So ppd has definitely moved back to the much higher damage Mids for Sumail. That's good, as finding damage in this meta is actually a bit hard. Given the defensive supports and everyone trying to run massive stuns/silences.
ye i agree, those are definitely more sumail heroes than, say... batrider... which is still a uni hero and still really strong in the offlane, especially a dual offlane which eg can often afford to run
Sumail plays a really good bat. Not quite s4's level at that he got to at Starladder, but still top tier. The issue isn't the Batrider, it's what it does to their initiation. Universe has to play a damage dealer, and ppd just couldn't figure out ones that were working well. So Sumail Batrider ends up pushing the best offlaner in the world into a 2 position core role. That was actually the problem, against Tier 1 competition.
Against Tier 2 competition, EG can do whatever the hell they want, really. Which is part of the "Day 1 EG" effect. That's why I'm really quite hoping that Complexity figure themselves out, as it would give both teams much, much better practice for International LANs.
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Which is weird because EG with Aui looked much cleaner than with Arteezy. I don't remember Fear feeding as much compared to Arteezy.
It's definitely true. I don't think it's RTZ's fault, though, not exactly. I think it's that Sumail and RTZ just can't function on the same team, because their style of play overlaps in all the wrong ways. Both of them want a lot of space cleared for them and a lot of farm for them to take, and although it's possible to do, you can't really manage that with the PPD/Fear support duo. Not to knock on them, either: they're great at what they do, but they don't have the precise kind of talents needed to actively create space for two super-greedy cores. EG worked well with Aui and Zai because it's just so much easier to make that kind of greed work with a 4-position hero. Fear played the same role that s4 played in old Secret, being the playmaker and using his early farm to leverage the kind of midgame map presence that current EG wishes they had, and Aui/Zai could always play a jungle hero to add even more pressure to the midgame. But RTZ has never been the best at putting on pressure in the midgame except as a ticking time bomb, and Sumail is still learning how to do it without leaning heavily on jungle flash farm.
It's just all kind of messy from a strategic standpoint, and I imagine that bleeds into play.
that's why I think swapping zai for fear makes a lot of sense not for skill/play cause fear has been fine but for strategic flexibility
I'm on the fence; I kinda think the best thing that could happen for EG would be for Fear to move back to carry. Having an insanely flexible carry player who can put on major pressure is so critical for the team.
Alternatively, they drop Universe and Fear to pick up Miracle and w33, thereby preventing any European team except for Alliance from having a T1 mid player. EG.NA suffers for EG.EU to pull through.
Honestly, it looks like EG are set up to play out this year with Fear on support and then reconsider their options (read, yell at zai to get back when school is over). Doubly so if Fear's health/'tennis elbow' starts acting up. His chemistry with Arteezy and plethora of playable heroes would address that side of the problem - EG still need to tone back how eager they are / arrogant about taking some fights, though.
On January 31 2016 01:55 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: yea idk i wouldn't agree that sumail's bat is actually that great, all the games i've seen it it kinda did the job and also kinda fed unnecessarily
The game 1s against Vega & LGD at Starladder bracket stage, his bat looked good. But Batrider wasn't overpowered there, it was just coming back into the meta. At MDL, everyone has remembered how to play against it, so it's going a brilliant 7-14.
But regardless of how well Sumail was or wasn't playing it, it really messes up EG's team fight coordination because Universe is the one that they key off. We saw it in Game 2 against LGD. (Though, in hindsight, they really didn't have anyone to initate in that draft, but if they had just dodged for another 15 minutes rather than Rosh'ing, they'd have won anyway.)
Though Sumail must be really salty still about Storm Spirit's nerfs. He'd be styling all over other mids if he had the chance right now.
On January 31 2016 01:00 Acritter wrote: EG have been having extreme communication/coordination issues for quite some time. Their individual talent and drafting have been enough to make up for it and keep them at the top of the scene, but anyone who watches can see how much trouble they have functioning as a squad.
Which is weird because EG with Aui looked much cleaner than with Arteezy. I don't remember Fear feeding as much compared to Arteezy.
It's definitely true. I don't think it's RTZ's fault, though, not exactly. I think it's that Sumail and RTZ just can't function on the same team, because their style of play overlaps in all the wrong ways. Both of them want a lot of space cleared for them and a lot of farm for them to take, and although it's possible to do, you can't really manage that with the PPD/Fear support duo. Not to knock on them, either: they're great at what they do, but they don't have the precise kind of talents needed to actively create space for two super-greedy cores. EG worked well with Aui and Zai because it's just so much easier to make that kind of greed work with a 4-position hero. Fear played the same role that s4 played in old Secret, being the playmaker and using his early farm to leverage the kind of midgame map presence that current EG wishes they had, and Aui/Zai could always play a jungle hero to add even more pressure to the midgame. But RTZ has never been the best at putting on pressure in the midgame except as a ticking time bomb, and Sumail is still learning how to do it without leaning heavily on jungle flash farm.
It's just all kind of messy from a strategic standpoint, and I imagine that bleeds into play.
that's why I think swapping zai for fear makes a lot of sense not for skill/play cause fear has been fine but for strategic flexibility
Fear brings more to the table than just skill/play. According to ppd he's very important to the overall structure of the team. And hes incredibly flexible in picks, just because he doesn't play something doesn't mean he can't. In his Vlog, ppd said that in the game against LGD at SL13 he picked WD for Fear despite him never playing it and he wrecked them. I love zai and wished there was a place for him on EG but I don't think there is.
Also the idea that EG was cleaner with aui is wrong. They didn't look any more dominant than now, they are a scrappy team which gets stronger the more the tournament advance. Right now I think there are just more teams who are able to challenge them and I'm pretty sure they would be doing worse with Aui.
On January 31 2016 02:04 HaXxorIzed wrote: Honestly, it looks like EG are set up to play out this year with Fear on support and then reconsider their options (read, yell at zai to get back when school is over). Doubly so if Fear's health/'tennis elbow' starts acting up. His chemistry with Arteezy and plethora of playable heroes would address that side of the problem - EG still need to tone back how eager they are / arrogant about taking some fights, though.
Where does this idea that zai has a plethora of heroes comes from? He had actually a pretty limited set of amazing heroes Enigma/WK/bane but he wasn't as versatile as Fear. Even as an offlaner he was the same, mostly bat/clock/Brood/DS.
I mean I agree that EG looked shaky at the start of the tournament hence the LB-run. But come on ... they are at least top 3 again on one of the most stacked LAN's so far. The guys are still doing well constantly, more or less in every tournament they are part of.
On January 31 2016 02:04 HaXxorIzed wrote: Honestly, it looks like EG are set up to play out this year with Fear on support and then reconsider their options (read, yell at zai to get back when school is over). Doubly so if Fear's health/'tennis elbow' starts acting up. His chemistry with Arteezy and plethora of playable heroes would address that side of the problem - EG still need to tone back how eager they are / arrogant about taking some fights, though.
EG has actually over-extended less as this tournament has gone on. They've been slowly getting better about that. (Especially since they first brought back Arteezy. Both he & Sumail have that issue.) They're slowly figuring it all out, but they still have 7 months to TI.
And it's not like they're doing badly since Arteezy came back. This is their 6th LAN, and their results are 1 win, 2 2nds, 3rd at Frankfurt and MDL at least 3rd. Their only real botch-up was against Vega at ESL One, but Mag's Broodmother was the cause there. So, things ain't bad right now.
On January 31 2016 01:55 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: yea idk i wouldn't agree that sumail's bat is actually that great, all the games i've seen it it kinda did the job and also kinda fed unnecessarily
The game 1s against Vega & LGD at Starladder bracket stage, his bat looked good. But Batrider wasn't overpowered there, it was just coming back into the meta. At MDL, everyone has remembered how to play against it, so it's going a brilliant 7-14.
But regardless of how well Sumail was or wasn't playing it, it really messes up EG's team fight coordination because Universe is the one that they key off. We saw it in Game 2 against LGD. (Though, in hindsight, they really didn't have anyone to initate in that draft, but if they had just dodged for another 15 minutes rather than Rosh'ing, they'd have won anyway.)
Though Sumail must be really salty still about Storm Spirit's nerfs. He'd be styling all over other mids if he had the chance right now.
I agree that EG key off Universe. Universe is one of their main key players. It has been missed for a while in my opinion, since Aui left, as the foci was on getting Sumail and RTZ to roll.
He shouldn't be salty about the Storm, because if he is that dependant on a snowballer such as the storm, in that shape, he is one-dimensional. And EG can't afford to have one being prominently one-dimensional, imo.
On January 31 2016 03:29 Dracolich70 wrote: Azarkon was partly right, although it was not VG against the world, but eHome.
The current Chinese pecking order actually held firm for 6.86 here at MDL.
Ehome > VG > LGD > Newbee = CDEC. I was expecting VG to figure things out better going forward, as they were clearly the 2nd base in the two events they were at, while seemingly playing around with their drafts. They seemed to treat the Dire & Radiant Cup as a practice scrim. But they really weren't ready for Ehome's push strategies in the Bracket Stage. VG would have gone out 0-4 in the Bracket Stage if ppd had just not listened to Arteezy that Luna is a viable pick.
Ehome is playing well, so we'll see what happens in the finals. It might be a very short Bo5.
On January 31 2016 04:12 DV G wrote: Any non Azubu VOD for OG-Ehome?
Can't seem to find one.
Unless someone was doing it off Twitch, I don't know of any.
I also haven't figured out how to link Azubu VODs. Which actually work pretty well for me. If people can get a solid stream connection to Azubu, the VODs actually work pretty well.
On January 31 2016 03:29 Dracolich70 wrote: Azarkon was partly right, although it was not VG against the world, but eHome.
The current Chinese pecking order actually held firm for 6.86 here at MDL.
Ehome > VG > LGD > Newbee = CDEC. I was expecting VG to figure things out better going forward, as they were clearly the 2nd base in the two events they were at, while seemingly playing around with their drafts. They seemed to treat the Dire & Radiant Cup as a practice scrim. But they really weren't ready for Ehome's push strategies in the Bracket Stage. VG would have gone out 0-4 in the Bracket Stage if ppd had just not listened to Arteezy that Luna is a viable pick.
Ehome is playing well, so we'll see what happens in the finals. It might be a very short Bo5.
the best thing about the Chinese scene now is that there are like 5-6 teams in the same tier with Newbee. And even though the new players are not as amazing as miracle or w33, but they are kinda solid. I guess it is the new CDEC league is doing work.
On January 31 2016 03:29 Dracolich70 wrote: Azarkon was partly right, although it was not VG against the world, but eHome.
The current Chinese pecking order actually held firm for 6.86 here at MDL.
Ehome > VG > LGD > Newbee = CDEC. I was expecting VG to figure things out better going forward, as they were clearly the 2nd base in the two events they were at, while seemingly playing around with their drafts. They seemed to treat the Dire & Radiant Cup as a practice scrim. But they really weren't ready for Ehome's push strategies in the Bracket Stage. VG would have gone out 0-4 in the Bracket Stage if ppd had just not listened to Arteezy that Luna is a viable pick.
Ehome is playing well, so we'll see what happens in the finals. It might be a very short Bo5.
I also predicted that VG would prove to be the strongest Asian team, as they in my opinion has the highest skill ceiling and vastest pool, but EG seems to be their kryptonite, like they are OGs.
eHome have impressed me, where they are at their best when being aggressive, creating their own timings outside itemization timings, thowing teams off guard with their multiple early smoke ganks.
It may seem disrespectful and undeserved, but I feel as it often is that the team that impresses the most gets figured out at the finals.
I would not disprove of eHome winning though, even if I needless to say will root for OG to get past last two hinders.
On January 31 2016 03:29 Dracolich70 wrote: Azarkon was partly right, although it was not VG against the world, but eHome.
The current Chinese pecking order actually held firm for 6.86 here at MDL.
Ehome > VG > LGD > Newbee = CDEC. I was expecting VG to figure things out better going forward, as they were clearly the 2nd base in the two events they were at, while seemingly playing around with their drafts. They seemed to treat the Dire & Radiant Cup as a practice scrim. But they really weren't ready for Ehome's push strategies in the Bracket Stage. VG would have gone out 0-4 in the Bracket Stage if ppd had just not listened to Arteezy that Luna is a viable pick.
Ehome is playing well, so we'll see what happens in the finals. It might be a very short Bo5.
I also predicted that VG would prove to be the strongest Asian team, as they in my opinion has the highest skill ceiling and vastest pool, but EG seems to be their kryptonite, like they are OGs.
eHome have impressed me, where they are at their best when being aggressive, creating their own timings outside itemization timings, thowing teams off guard with their multiple early smoke ganks.
It may seem disrespectful and undeserved, but I feel as it often is that the team that impresses the most gets figured out at the finals.
I would not disprove of eHome winning though, even if I needless to say will root for OG to get past last two hinders.
The dominant "tournament meta" team gets figured out because everyone tries to copy what they're doing. But a team being "figured out" also has a lot to do, in recent times, with EG being around. ppd really is the Bill Belichick of Dota2. He figures out your strength, bans it, then exploits the hole it creates. But he does need time to do that & then execute it. Given that apparently most of the team is sick right now, that execution part may be the biggest issue in the lower bracket final.
The other issue with having a dominant style that's setting a tournament meta is that you really do not want to stray from it. You don't risk what's winning games for you, but once it gets countered, you normally need time to readjust. Unless your captain can do that between games, you can be in a lot of trouble.
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EG with only 4 alive swap Sumail into death. So what is VG's reaction? Let's clump up against ES because the fight is over anyways, right? Right? Oh VG
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