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On January 29 2015 17:45 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:42 SleepyDreams wrote:On January 29 2015 17:40 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:39 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:39 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:36 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:34 SleepyDreams wrote:On January 29 2015 17:31 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:30 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
If they actually started it, they would wipe Secret i think. its one of those games where if jugg didnt get picked off randomly he wouldve had level 16 and they mightve turned that fight with it It wasn't random. Burning had to play riskily by split pushing. If he had played safely, he would of got no farm and secret would of pushed high ground sooner. Think of it this way: the additional gold he and his team may of gained by farming riskily and dieing 2-3 times may of been more than the by staying with his team and farming. he died to lycan in a normally safe position -- i'm guessing arteezy went around and sapped his mana with necro, and then jugg was helpless You can't run away from lycan with shapeshift and don't forget, jugg with mom is paper, so he could even die from not being able to tp away in time. cast omni And? Lycan won't die and after that you die anyways. lycan wont have minions, jugg can actually beat out lycan in damage at that point, who will probably also be at 60% hp Your forgetting that lycan has necrobooks. im not forgetting that. i said it a long time ago.
I think you're seriously underestimating the farm rtz had over jug. Good luck spacing from a creep wave when Lycan is going past haste speed and smashing you for 25% of your hp if your mom is active. Jugg was straight dead there without a tp
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ooh nice. MVP.Penis is up next
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On January 29 2015 17:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:45 SleepyDreams wrote:
Secret basically baited the jugg pick then responded with bristle dazzle. There's no way that jugg can contest a bristle dazzle offlane so BG placed jugg in the offlane and tried to pick up a strong laner against bristle - viper. The way to beat jugg is to get summons (viper and lycan) plus tanky cores (bb, centaur and lycan). Add physical armour in dazzle and you've pretty much rendered jugg useless. Don't read to much into it. Chinese pick Jugg 100%, you don't have to bait it ever.
Which makes it extremely easy to abuse like what secret did.
The difference is, with empower, jugg can actually deal with lycan, the problem was the visage pick. The familiars can tank the omnislash and vissage is a physical tank that would soak up most of the omnislash
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I'd love to look forward to secret vs navi but it's going to be a 1-2hr wait for 15 minutes of gameplay : (
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On January 29 2015 17:47 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:43 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:41 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:40 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:39 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:39 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:36 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:34 SleepyDreams wrote:On January 29 2015 17:31 rabidch wrote:
[quote]
its one of those games where if jugg didnt get picked off randomly he wouldve had level 16 and they mightve turned that fight with it It wasn't random. Burning had to play riskily by split pushing. If he had played safely, he would of got no farm and secret would of pushed high ground sooner. Think of it this way: the additional gold he and his team may of gained by farming riskily and dieing 2-3 times may of been more than the by staying with his team and farming. he died to lycan in a normally safe position -- i'm guessing arteezy went around and sapped his mana with necro, and then jugg was helpless You can't run away from lycan with shapeshift and don't forget, jugg with mom is paper, so he could even die from not being able to tp away in time. cast omni And? Lycan won't die and after that you die anyways. lycan wont have minions, jugg can actually beat out lycan in damage at that point, who will probably also be at 60% hp Lycan is much tankier and you won't kill minions if you omni him in the middle of creep wave. you space away from the creepwave. and it doesnt matter if lycan is much tankier, if its a 1v1 situation jugg will simply out lifesteal with the ridiculous BAT That Lycan had like 30 armor, ult, and lifesteal of his own, Jugg would get decimated in a manfight.
20 ish armor actually, it was pre ac. jugg hits 3 times for every 1 lycan hit, and jugg kills necro minions quickly (invis wolves will survive)
i'm wrong at this point guys, i give up 
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 29 2015 17:50 SleepyDreams wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 29 2015 17:45 SleepyDreams wrote:
Secret basically baited the jugg pick then responded with bristle dazzle. There's no way that jugg can contest a bristle dazzle offlane so BG placed jugg in the offlane and tried to pick up a strong laner against bristle - viper. The way to beat jugg is to get summons (viper and lycan) plus tanky cores (bb, centaur and lycan). Add physical armour in dazzle and you've pretty much rendered jugg useless. Don't read to much into it. Chinese pick Jugg 100%, you don't have to bait it ever. Which makes it extremely easy to abuse like what secret did. The difference is, with empower, jugg can actually deal with lycan, the problem was the visage pick. The familiars can tank the omnislash and vissage is a physical tank that would soak up most of the omnislash
Actually, tbh, i think someone on Russian stream pointed it correctly: Secret's line-up relied on plain getting objectives and right clicking to victory with few r button presses and blinks here and there. BG's line-up relied on a fucking wombo combo.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 29 2015 17:50 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:47 red_ wrote:On January 29 2015 17:43 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:41 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:40 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:39 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:39 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:36 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:34 SleepyDreams wrote:
[quote]
It wasn't random. Burning had to play riskily by split pushing. If he had played safely, he would of got no farm and secret would of pushed high ground sooner. Think of it this way: the additional gold he and his team may of gained by farming riskily and dieing 2-3 times may of been more than the by staying with his team and farming. he died to lycan in a normally safe position -- i'm guessing arteezy went around and sapped his mana with necro, and then jugg was helpless You can't run away from lycan with shapeshift and don't forget, jugg with mom is paper, so he could even die from not being able to tp away in time. cast omni And? Lycan won't die and after that you die anyways. lycan wont have minions, jugg can actually beat out lycan in damage at that point, who will probably also be at 60% hp Lycan is much tankier and you won't kill minions if you omni him in the middle of creep wave. you space away from the creepwave. and it doesnt matter if lycan is much tankier, if its a 1v1 situation jugg will simply out lifesteal with the ridiculous BAT That Lycan had like 30 armor, ult, and lifesteal of his own, Jugg would get decimated in a manfight. 20 ish armor actually, it was pre ac. jugg hits 3 times for every 1 lycan hit, and jugg kills necro minions quickly (invis wolves will survive)
Jugg at that moment in time could not possible hit quicker than 2.1 times per second, against 1.2 hits per second by lycan (midas+treads+natural agility+necro aura). Also, you do know what happesn when jugg with mom on kills necro warrior?
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On January 29 2015 17:52 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:50 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:47 red_ wrote:On January 29 2015 17:43 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:41 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:40 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:39 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:39 rabidch wrote:On January 29 2015 17:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:36 rabidch wrote:
[quote]
he died to lycan in a normally safe position -- i'm guessing arteezy went around and sapped his mana with necro, and then jugg was helpless You can't run away from lycan with shapeshift and don't forget, jugg with mom is paper, so he could even die from not being able to tp away in time. cast omni And? Lycan won't die and after that you die anyways. lycan wont have minions, jugg can actually beat out lycan in damage at that point, who will probably also be at 60% hp Lycan is much tankier and you won't kill minions if you omni him in the middle of creep wave. you space away from the creepwave. and it doesnt matter if lycan is much tankier, if its a 1v1 situation jugg will simply out lifesteal with the ridiculous BAT That Lycan had like 30 armor, ult, and lifesteal of his own, Jugg would get decimated in a manfight. 20 ish armor actually, it was pre ac. jugg hits 3 times for every 1 lycan hit, and jugg kills necro minions quickly (invis wolves will survive) Jugg at that moment in time could not possible hit quicker than 2.1 times per second, against 1.2 hits per second by lycan (midas+treads+natural agility+necro aura). Also, you do know what happesn when jugg with mom on kills necro warrior?
i concede the argument after omni, but killing necro wrarior doesnt do anything to jugg when he's in omnislash
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MVP vs EG is going to be interesting. I hope MVP can make it a close game.
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On January 29 2015 17:51 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:50 SleepyDreams wrote:On January 29 2015 17:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On January 29 2015 17:45 SleepyDreams wrote:
Secret basically baited the jugg pick then responded with bristle dazzle. There's no way that jugg can contest a bristle dazzle offlane so BG placed jugg in the offlane and tried to pick up a strong laner against bristle - viper. The way to beat jugg is to get summons (viper and lycan) plus tanky cores (bb, centaur and lycan). Add physical armour in dazzle and you've pretty much rendered jugg useless. Don't read to much into it. Chinese pick Jugg 100%, you don't have to bait it ever. Which makes it extremely easy to abuse like what secret did. The difference is, with empower, jugg can actually deal with lycan, the problem was the visage pick. The familiars can tank the omnislash and vissage is a physical tank that would soak up most of the omnislash Actually, tbh, i think someone on Russian stream pointed it correctly: Secret's line-up relied on plain getting objectives and right clicking to victory with few r button presses and blinks here and there. BG's line-up relied on a fucking wombo combo.
Yeap, that is correct too, wombo combo would of definitely been possible. Even with secret up by 20k gold they would of had trouble pushing high ground.
But secret played well by picking them off using their superior mobility never allowing BG to properly coordinate and set up a good base defence.
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Provided Secret is simply a reinvigorated EG, then the proper way to play vs. them is to challenge RTZ's hero pool. When EG was slumping, they relied on RTZ Lycan to carry them through games. You ban them out and see what he picks.
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On January 29 2015 17:54 wun4 wrote:
MVP vs EG is going to be interesting. I hope MVP can make it a close game.
if MVP can get their warlock I'll bet it'll be a close even favorable game for them
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lol.. that BTS table has nothing compared to Liquid Dota table! #productionvalue
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 29 2015 17:55 Azarkon wrote:
Provided Secret is simply a reinvigorated EG, then the proper way to play vs. them is to challenge RTZ's hero pool. When EG was slumping, they relied on RTZ Lycan to carry them through games. You ban them out and see what he picks.
Guys, i forgot, what was Rtz's pool again? I mean, i remember it used to be large but then EG started playing exclusive deathballs.
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On January 29 2015 17:56 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:55 Azarkon wrote:
Provided Secret is simply a reinvigorated EG, then the proper way to play vs. them is to challenge RTZ's hero pool. When EG was slumping, they relied on RTZ Lycan to carry them through games. You ban them out and see what he picks. Guys, i forgot, what was Rtz's pool again? I mean, i remember it used to be large but then EG started playing exclusive deathballs.
Lycan, death prophet and razor
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On January 29 2015 17:56 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:55 Azarkon wrote:
Provided Secret is simply a reinvigorated EG, then the proper way to play vs. them is to challenge RTZ's hero pool. When EG was slumping, they relied on RTZ Lycan to carry them through games. You ban them out and see what he picks. Guys, i forgot, what was Rtz's pool again? I mean, i remember it used to be large but then EG started playing exclusive deathballs.
SF, Lycan, PA, probably his top 3 these days.
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My girlfriend has a chest cold and is crashed out on the couch and I have been relegated to watching this at my desk with headphones like a fucking primitive.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 29 2015 17:58 ref4 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2015 17:56 lolfail9001 wrote:On January 29 2015 17:55 Azarkon wrote:
Provided Secret is simply a reinvigorated EG, then the proper way to play vs. them is to challenge RTZ's hero pool. When EG was slumping, they relied on RTZ Lycan to carry them through games. You ban them out and see what he picks. Guys, i forgot, what was Rtz's pool again? I mean, i remember it used to be large but then EG started playing exclusive deathballs. Lycan, death prophet and razor
Ah, right, so only lycan.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Well Arteezy isn't playing mid anymore, I think his hero pool probably changed a lot from the EG days. He also practices different heroes in pubs and stuff.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 29 2015 17:59 cecek wrote:
Well Arteezy isn't playing mid anymore, I think his hero pool probably changed a lot from the EG days. He also practices different heroes in pubs and stuff.
He played mid literally this game.
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