On July 20 2014 06:12 Canucklehead wrote: As a dota newbee the one thing I don't get is when people say the game was won or lost at the draft. If the draft is so important why even play the games? Just seems weird and op to me. Nerf the draft.
That's like if sc2 games were decided at the race pick screen if someone picked say.... Protoss. Just an inconceivable and unimaginable thought to me.
drafting can produce advantages that can snowball really quickly
basically if your draft turns 50/50 into 55/45 it's omghuge
On July 20 2014 06:12 Canucklehead wrote: As a dota newbee the one thing I don't get is when people say the game was won or lost at the draft. If the draft is so important why even play the games? Just seems weird and op to me. Nerf the draft.
That's like if sc2 games were decided at the race pick screen if someone picked say.... Protoss. Just an inconceivable and unimaginable thought to me.
Drafting doesn't always determine whether a team will win from the onset. A lot of it goes down to laning, how well the team farms, how they work as a team, if they land things on time, etc.
i don't think last hitting is that similar to sc mechanics
a big part of last hitting is creating situations where you can get the last hit with high probability. This is more of an experience/decision making/mind games thing. This isn't the same as keeping your relatively mindless macro rotation going
On July 20 2014 06:06 Lorizean wrote: So, as a total Dota noob, and people in this thread talking about mechanics, would I be correct in assuming that mechanics are far less important in Dota than, say, SC2?
It seems to me that strategic use of abilities and teamplay is more important than having strong mechanics (and there seem to be a lower skill ceiling, mechanically speaking, but that's just from watching).
Mechanics are less important yes. A lot of dota comes down to experience and strategic moves. The different between amazing mechanics and good mechanics doesn't mean as much as the difference between the other aspects.
I think amazing mechanics are important to a certain degree. Like if you can silence brewmaster consistently with skywrath i consider it amazing mechanics and it can make games a lot easier(just an example) But yeah you can win a lot of dota games with just some good strategic knowledge and okay mechanics
you're conflating terms again, it's positioning that allows skywrath to get a good silence on brew, the mechanics of it is literally just clicking a fat drunk guy
On July 20 2014 06:06 Lorizean wrote: So, as a total Dota noob, and people in this thread talking about mechanics, would I be correct in assuming that mechanics are far less important in Dota than, say, SC2?
It seems to me that strategic use of abilities and teamplay is more important than having strong mechanics (and there seem to be a lower skill ceiling, mechanically speaking, but that's just from watching).
Mechanics are less important yes. A lot of dota comes down to experience and strategic moves. The different between amazing mechanics and good mechanics doesn't mean as much as the difference between the other aspects.
I think amazing mechanics are important to a certain degree. Like if you can silence brewmaster consistently with skywrath i consider it amazing mechanics and it can make games a lot easier(just an example) But yeah you can win a lot of dota games with just some good strategic knowledge and okay mechanics
Well yea amazing mechanics are important and do help. All I really meant is that it's not AS important as in a game like SC2. I think the best example of this is watching a team like Mouz play late game vs a team like A. The shear strategic knowledge and experience difference is so absurd
On July 20 2014 06:02 Seraphic wrote: lol mechanical skill = CSing...
hahaha
But GG to iG. This game 1 was rough lol. YYF got killed so many times I lost count.
Maybe I have a different way I look at the game, but that's how I've seen it when I play.
Movement and item builds/skill builds is more strategic, and teamfight execution + CS'ing is the mechanical skill. I don't really think that's flawed logic.
Coming from a SC background, my last hitting is really good, but I am not good at correct movement, knowing when to gank etc... And SC(BW especially) being a mechanical game, I would think the mechanical skill transfers over more than anything.
SC and MobA are 2 very different beasts in game.
Yao did perfect that game. His sun strikes where on point almost all of the time. Him missing CS means nothing at all if he hits his sun strikes which he did.
Your logic is off base from the start if you believe Yao is bad just from CS. Did you watch his PoV? Did you stay on his view the whole time? If you didn't and accuse him of such you need to stop now.
I accused Ferrari, because I watched him.
I never said Yao did bad. Sure he lost the CS war, but that depends on the match-up, and like you said, he did a lot otherwise. It's just when players miss the CS they simply shouldn't (in their lane alone, the creep wave in by their tower, etc), that when they miss CS I get disappointed, and I consider that the mechanical skill.
It's fine, we get it, you are better than 430. Can we move on now?
That is not at all what my point was (no I'm not). But sure, lets move on.
On July 20 2014 06:04 Canucklehead wrote: Wtf. I'm cheering for IG cause I thought they had the best chance to beat Eg but they just got stomped. I dunno if lgd can beat Eg and DK already got stomped by them so I don't trust them to beat eg now.
nice logic.
I'm cheering for an all Chinese finals so it comes down to who I think has the best chance to beat Eg cause eg winning ti is a nightmare scenario.
Why would it be a nightmare scenario out of curiosity? :o Do you just really not like EG?
My hope is that dk plays super well and we get a sick nb dk finals though :3
Yeah I've never been an eg fan or their players except jaedong. Plus, I could never cheer for someone like Mason.
On July 20 2014 06:06 Lorizean wrote: So, as a total Dota noob, and people in this thread talking about mechanics, would I be correct in assuming that mechanics are far less important in Dota than, say, SC2?
It seems to me that strategic use of abilities and teamplay is more important than having strong mechanics (and there seem to be a lower skill ceiling, mechanically speaking, but that's just from watching).
Mechanics are less important yes. A lot of dota comes down to experience and strategic moves. The different between amazing mechanics and good mechanics doesn't mean as much as the difference between the other aspects.
I think amazing mechanics are important to a certain degree. Like if you can silence brewmaster consistently with skywrath i consider it amazing mechanics and it can make games a lot easier(just an example) But yeah you can win a lot of dota games with just some good strategic knowledge and okay mechanics
you're conflating terms again, it's positioning that allows skywrath to get a good silence on brew, the mechanics of it is literally just clicking a fat drunk guy
On July 20 2014 06:12 Canucklehead wrote: As a dota newbee the one thing I don't get is when people say the game was won or lost at the draft. If the draft is so important why even play the games? Just seems weird and op to me. Nerf the draft.
That's like if sc2 games were decided at the race pick screen if someone picked say.... Protoss. Just an inconceivable and unimaginable thought to me.
Dont let them irritate you. People overreact looking at drafts. The picks alone often dont tell the whole story, its also about how they plan to lane and what their plan is with the heroes. Often you can determine all of this correctly from the draft and say one team has theoretically an advantage, but its all about execution. Navi vs c9 game 3 is a good example of how a draft doesnt tell the whole story
On July 20 2014 06:12 Canucklehead wrote: As a dota newbee the one thing I don't get is when people say the game was won or lost at the draft. If the draft is so important why even play the games? Just seems weird and op to me. Nerf the draft.
That's like if sc2 games were decided at the race pick screen if someone picked say.... Protoss. Just an inconceivable and unimaginable thought to me.
drafting can produce advantages that can snowball really quickly
basically if your draft turns 50/50 into 55/45 it's omghuge
Its not that draft turns the game into a 55/45
A lot of snowbally games happen when neither team has good comeback potential. Both are hoping to get the ball rolling, and once they do their draft makes it easy to press the advantage (while the other team is unable to execute their strategy because they also relied on having that advantage)
On July 20 2014 06:06 Lorizean wrote: So, as a total Dota noob, and people in this thread talking about mechanics, would I be correct in assuming that mechanics are far less important in Dota than, say, SC2?
It seems to me that strategic use of abilities and teamplay is more important than having strong mechanics (and there seem to be a lower skill ceiling, mechanically speaking, but that's just from watching).
Mechanics are less important yes. A lot of dota comes down to experience and strategic moves. The different between amazing mechanics and good mechanics doesn't mean as much as the difference between the other aspects.
I think amazing mechanics are important to a certain degree. Like if you can silence brewmaster consistently with skywrath i consider it amazing mechanics and it can make games a lot easier(just an example) But yeah you can win a lot of dota games with just some good strategic knowledge and okay mechanics
you're conflating terms again, it's positioning that allows skywrath to get a good silence on brew, the mechanics of it is literally just clicking a fat drunk guy
Well it is also about reaction time which i do consider mechanical(might be wrong on that). Like in 1 game the invoker could orchid the batrider after the blink before he could lasso. Its not something i would only say is a matter of positioning
On July 20 2014 06:12 Canucklehead wrote: As a dota newbee the one thing I don't get is when people say the game was won or lost at the draft. If the draft is so important why even play the games? Just seems weird and op to me. Nerf the draft.
That's like if sc2 games were decided at the race pick screen if someone picked say.... Protoss. Just an inconceivable and unimaginable thought to me.
Dont let them irritate you. People overreact looking at drafts. The picks alone often dont tell the whole story, its also about how they plan to lane and what their plan is with the heroes. Often you can determine all of this correctly from the draft and say one team has theoretically an advantage, but its all about execution. Navi vs c9 game 3 is a good example of how a draft doesnt tell the whole story
despite the bandwagon against pld's bh pick, rhasta aa is actually a terrible trilane duo and terrible support duo in general, and na'vi laned that the worst way possible and didn't protect their dp against 2 ganks
they could've outplayed c9, but the way they started out lanes (pretty much before the game "starts") put them at a huge disadvantage. laning plan is really tied into drafts, and i feel navi actually had less good options that game (no one to jungle and outgreed doom if they cant find kills)
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gVEWbaY.png)
