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On September 04 2012 12:20 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:40 Bibbit wrote:On September 04 2012 10:11 kdgns wrote:On September 04 2012 10:04 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
So, this may have been said somewhere in the 1100 pages previous, but is there a reason they didn't have a true double elim bracket? I don't particularly have a problem with them doing it the way they did in the end, but it strikes me as unfortunate that Na'vi gets knocked out with just the single lost series. It would have been a bit too much, they were already doing too many games a day, wait times for players gets a bit out of hand. Also keep in mind that IG would have had a bo3 with dk, then a bo3 with lgd, then a bo5 in grand finals against navi, if they did a bo3 of bo5s with navi up 1, It would have lasted way too long. Also excitement factor, one series finals have a higher tension, similar to the reason why proleague finals is one series. I wouldn't have minded seeing a 1-0 lead for Na'vi to start or something like that. It just doesnt feel right for me that every team except one gets a second life. I've said this numerous times. The main arguments have been: 1. It's just a format to choose the 2 best teams and have an even finals between them. So you'd think of the full double elimination before top 2 as just means to get seeding 2. Losers bracket is disadvantageous enough with the more matches to play so it'd be unfair to have a game advantage on top of that 3. It's their tournament and they told the teams the rules in advance so they shouldn't complain 4. It's not cool to see only a 2 game finals and it'd take too long to have a Bo7 with 1 game advantage (3-6 games) so they had no choice but to make it an even Bo5 (3-5 games).
Yes I already had that explained to me and accepted it without a fuss. You should have scrolled down slightly and saved yourself a lot of trouble
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On September 04 2012 12:23 Bibbit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:20 Shikyo wrote:On September 04 2012 10:40 Bibbit wrote:On September 04 2012 10:11 kdgns wrote:On September 04 2012 10:04 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
So, this may have been said somewhere in the 1100 pages previous, but is there a reason they didn't have a true double elim bracket? I don't particularly have a problem with them doing it the way they did in the end, but it strikes me as unfortunate that Na'vi gets knocked out with just the single lost series. It would have been a bit too much, they were already doing too many games a day, wait times for players gets a bit out of hand. Also keep in mind that IG would have had a bo3 with dk, then a bo3 with lgd, then a bo5 in grand finals against navi, if they did a bo3 of bo5s with navi up 1, It would have lasted way too long. Also excitement factor, one series finals have a higher tension, similar to the reason why proleague finals is one series. I wouldn't have minded seeing a 1-0 lead for Na'vi to start or something like that. It just doesnt feel right for me that every team except one gets a second life. I've said this numerous times. The main arguments have been: 1. It's just a format to choose the 2 best teams and have an even finals between them. So you'd think of the full double elimination before top 2 as just means to get seeding 2. Losers bracket is disadvantageous enough with the more matches to play so it'd be unfair to have a game advantage on top of that 3. It's their tournament and they told the teams the rules in advance so they shouldn't complain 4. It's not cool to see only a 2 game finals and it'd take too long to have a Bo7 with 1 game advantage (3-6 games) so they had no choice but to make it an even Bo5 (3-5 games). Yes I already had that explained to me and accepted it without a fuss. You should have scrolled down slightly and saved yourself a lot of trouble
Oh it's no trouble at all to me but you probably are correct
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On September 04 2012 08:51 On_Slaught wrote:
I agree. Navi vs LGD was by far the best series and the highest lvl of play we saw in the tournament.
I think iG vs LGD was better.
As for the Grand Finals:
Outdrafted.Outpicked.Outplayed.
Disruptor messed up Navi play.
Faith glimpse AA shaman back toward his base 3 times especially the one time during the crucial 5v5 in mid.It turned into a 4v5 in favor of iG.
Not to mentioned he picked off Dendi DK with glimpse(1800 range wtf) and gank him.
Faith was definitely MVP in Game 3.
Game 4.
I was shocked to see KotH.Even more shocked to see Navi pick Nyx.
KotH Illuminate is fucking good at counterpushing.
The big highlight IMO is Dendi Rubick only managing to steal Ravage once.
iG did their research properly.
They shut down Dendi Rubick so hard.Chuan was smart this time and he went 100% for Dendi and never letting him steal Ravage .lol They aimed Dendi hardcore all the time.
Nyx can't do shit in the end.Even ES,Lina and SK would be a much better pick.
No idea why they picked him.
Ferrari was 2-shotting him in the late game with refract+meld lol.
All the squishies were food for him(Rubick,Leshrac and Nyx).
The ---armor was insane with Meld+Gush.
His traps are fucking good against Navi line-up.
Naga is pretty good.That all's i have to say.lol
Sleep one of the best initiate spells of the game IMO if not the best.
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sigh could've easily predicted the results, and I don't even follow Dota 2 that much
well I guess its a good thing that iG won.
would say some weird stuff if those guys lost after costing millions
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Australia7069 Posts
On September 04 2012 14:05 aRyuujin wrote:
sigh could've easily predicted the results, and I don't even follow Dota 2 that much
well I guess its a good thing that iG won.
would say some weird stuff if those guys lost after costing millions
easily predicted? I guess you predicted wrong for the rest of the winner bracket then?
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On September 04 2012 06:04 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 05:47 Spicy_Curry wrote:On September 04 2012 05:47 Firebolt145 wrote:
Are people saying that LGD iG game 1 is supposed to be a legendary game? I'm about 30 minutes in and it's pretty meh... I think you need to finish it I ended up forwarding through it at x4, became a huge ricing game, I guess the counterattack was nice but....... :/ Which of the 4 games between Navi iG in the finals are worth watching?
I'm curious what you then think does NOT constitute a huge ricing game? This game had like 80 kills over 66 minutes, a lot of incredible teamfights and skirmishes, some absolutely crazy moments of indivudual skill, and of course farming. In my opinion this tournament was all about these 2 teams, and this showdown was pretty much the pinnacle of dota at the moment, whereas the final was pretty one-sided. Also its a great example of perfect brewmaster play from YYF, who would come close to man of the tournament in my eyes.
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On September 04 2012 15:42 Poorlilrich wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 06:04 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 04 2012 05:47 Spicy_Curry wrote:On September 04 2012 05:47 Firebolt145 wrote:
Are people saying that LGD iG game 1 is supposed to be a legendary game? I'm about 30 minutes in and it's pretty meh... I think you need to finish it I ended up forwarding through it at x4, became a huge ricing game, I guess the counterattack was nice but....... :/ Which of the 4 games between Navi iG in the finals are worth watching? I'm curious what you then think does NOT constitute a huge ricing game? This game had like 80 kills over 66 minutes, a lot of incredible teamfights and skirmishes, some absolutely crazy moments of indivudual skill, and of course farming. In my opinion this tournament was all about these 2 teams, and this showdown was pretty much the pinnacle of dota at the moment, whereas the final was pretty one-sided. Also its a great example of perfect brewmaster play from YYF, who would come close to man of the tournament in my eyes.
It doesn't constitute as a ricing game when there are no asian teams involved
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On September 04 2012 13:38 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:51 On_Slaught wrote:
I agree. Navi vs LGD was by far the best series and the highest lvl of play we saw in the tournament. + Show Spoiler +
I think iG vs LGD was better.
As for the Grand Finals:
Outdrafted.Outpicked.Outplayed.
Disruptor messed up Navi play.
Faith glimpse AA shaman back toward his base 3 times especially the one time during the crucial 5v5 in mid.It turned into a 4v5 in favor of iG.
Not to mentioned he picked off Dendi DK with glimpse(1800 range wtf) and gank him.
Faith was definitely MVP in Game 3.
Game 4.
I was shocked to see KotH.Even more shocked to see Navi pick Nyx.
KotH Illuminate is fucking good at counterpushing.
The big highlight IMO is Dendi Rubick only managing to steal Ravage once.
iG did their research properly.
They shut down Dendi Rubick so hard.Chuan was smart this time and he went 100% for Dendi and never letting him steal Ravage .lol They aimed Dendi hardcore all the time.
Nyx can't do shit in the end.Even ES,Lina and SK would be a much better pick.
No idea why they picked him.
Ferrari was 2-shotting him in the late game with refract+meld lol.
All the squishies were food for him(Rubick,Leshrac and Nyx).
The ---armor was insane with Meld+Gush.
His traps are fucking good against Navi line-up.
Naga is pretty good.That all's i have to say.lol
Sleep one of the best initiate spells of the game IMO if not the best.
I did like Navi vs LGD better, just because it was foreigner vs china. Also I completely agree with you on the GF games Navi vs iG.
But 1 thing I can't agree on is calling sleep "one of the best initiate spells of the game". Just call it bullshit like everyone else does.
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On September 04 2012 15:44 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 15:42 Poorlilrich wrote:On September 04 2012 06:04 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 04 2012 05:47 Spicy_Curry wrote:On September 04 2012 05:47 Firebolt145 wrote:
Are people saying that LGD iG game 1 is supposed to be a legendary game? I'm about 30 minutes in and it's pretty meh... I think you need to finish it I ended up forwarding through it at x4, became a huge ricing game, I guess the counterattack was nice but....... :/ Which of the 4 games between Navi iG in the finals are worth watching? I'm curious what you then think does NOT constitute a huge ricing game? This game had like 80 kills over 66 minutes, a lot of incredible teamfights and skirmishes, some absolutely crazy moments of indivudual skill, and of course farming. In my opinion this tournament was all about these 2 teams, and this showdown was pretty much the pinnacle of dota at the moment, whereas the final was pretty one-sided. Also its a great example of perfect brewmaster play from YYF, who would come close to man of the tournament in my eyes. It doesn't constitute as a ricing game when there are no asian teams involved
i am asian and i like rice
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On September 04 2012 15:44 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 15:42 Poorlilrich wrote:On September 04 2012 06:04 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 04 2012 05:47 Spicy_Curry wrote:On September 04 2012 05:47 Firebolt145 wrote:
Are people saying that LGD iG game 1 is supposed to be a legendary game? I'm about 30 minutes in and it's pretty meh... I think you need to finish it I ended up forwarding through it at x4, became a huge ricing game, I guess the counterattack was nice but....... :/ Which of the 4 games between Navi iG in the finals are worth watching? I'm curious what you then think does NOT constitute a huge ricing game? This game had like 80 kills over 66 minutes, a lot of incredible teamfights and skirmishes, some absolutely crazy moments of indivudual skill, and of course farming. In my opinion this tournament was all about these 2 teams, and this showdown was pretty much the pinnacle of dota at the moment, whereas the final was pretty one-sided. Also its a great example of perfect brewmaster play from YYF, who would come close to man of the tournament in my eyes. It doesn't constitute as a ricing game when there are no asian teams involved
I see what you did there. well played. on a sidenote, why doesnt anyone see the navi farming games? where they pick am and go for 4 protect 1?
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i miss dota 
best esports weekend in such a long time. no other games compare. :\
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where could i find vods of final day? they aren't on toby's channel
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On September 04 2012 23:35 demitap wrote:
where could i find vods of final day? they aren't on toby's channel
dota2 channel at YT
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I think they picked nyx, so he could spam his shield while being sleeped from naga. If tide ravanges after sleep he will be stunned instantly not being able to cast another spell, allowing dendi to steal ravage. In the end it failed, because tide rarely ravaged after sleep... I thought in the beginning of the game, that this strat could work, but i guess ig played too smart, never using sleep as a big combo starter
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United States47024 Posts
On September 05 2012 02:52 fayte253 wrote:
I think they picked nyx, so he could spam his shield while being sleeped from naga. If tide ravanges after sleep he will be stunned instantly not being able to cast another spell, allowing dendi to steal ravage. In the end it failed, because tide rarely ravaged after sleep... I thought in the beginning of the game, that this strat could work, but i guess ig played too smart, never using sleep as a big combo starter
It also won't work if Nyx is underleveled, because until the higher ranks of carapace, the stun duration is way shorter than the Ravage stun duration.
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On September 05 2012 03:13 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:52 fayte253 wrote:
I think they picked nyx, so he could spam his shield while being sleeped from naga. If tide ravanges after sleep he will be stunned instantly not being able to cast another spell, allowing dendi to steal ravage. In the end it failed, because tide rarely ravaged after sleep... I thought in the beginning of the game, that this strat could work, but i guess ig played too smart, never using sleep as a big combo starter It also won't work if Nyx is underleveled, because until the higher ranks of carapace, the stun duration is way shorter than the Ravage stun duration.
it's also just incredibly bad. I mean any adjustment by iG and then 5th position NA is worthless. Say.. ANYONE damages Nyx before the ravage and the whole strat is foiled. I mean did Na'Vi really think that iG would fall for some really insanely lucky gimmick so many times in 1 game that it would make NA worth a pick? I love ppy and I was cheering harder than I ever have for an esports event this last weekend but that was just a huge fail.
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I was really disappointed in the way puppey played NA, actually. He's such an incredible roamer and ganker but IIRC there was next to no action. Of course I could be remembering wrong / missing it on the minimap but if I don't remember anything like that happening I doubt that it happened... He's like Sand King, just better. I don't see how it's possible to fail to gank with NA hmhm..
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On September 05 2012 08:59 Shikyo wrote:
I was really disappointed in the way puppey played NA, actually. He's such an incredible roamer and ganker but IIRC there was next to no action. Of course I could be remembering wrong / missing it on the minimap but if I don't remember anything like that happening I doubt that it happened... He's like Sand King, just better. I don't see how it's possible to fail to gank with NA hmhm..
i personally expected them to lane him against TA spamming mana burn
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He didnt have a chance to gank. NaVi got stomped early game.
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Games 3 and 4 were won because IG was completely in control. While they were outdrafted in Game 2 back in Winner's Bracket and then just mindfucked in Game 3, they flipped it around on Navi for the Final.
Last pick Disruptor just destroyed Navi because they had no way of actually reaching Faith and killing him before he could drop everything. Navi was trying to be cute sending DK mid on Dendi again (since it worked Game 2) but if Dendi had Puck the game would've been completely different since he could jump in and initiate on Disruptor, who is a very squishy hero.
Game 4 Navi decided to go back to their Jugg pushing lineup but the moment they picked Jugg they had lost the draft. Their only proven anti-Siren technology was with Jugg in a push strat or Void. Once Jugg was locked in, KotL was picked and it was over for the push strat since they had no way to answer. I'm assuming at this point Puppey said fuck it and tried to be cute with Nyx but he's pretty bad (meaning he is not competitive with top Chinese laners) at laning.
This is of course not discounting the excellent play on IG's part. Chuan's patience with aiming his ravages to make sure they were unstealable, Ferrari beating Dendi 3/4 times mid, Faith's amazing mounted hero play, etc.
EDIT: Also of note, IG had not picked Disruptor or KOTL at all during the International so this was either some great improvisation or actual secret technology they sat on till the very end to use. Meanwhile, Navi obviously had played all their cards just to throw IG and LGD off balance. 3 games vs LGD probably gave IG plenty of ideas of how to deal with Navi's play.
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EPT
