EPTI may have this a bit wrong, but it almost certainly doesn't occur on Dota 2. If that's not what he's referring to then I have no idea.
[Hero] Faceless Void - Page 13
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GentleDrill
United Kingdom672 Posts
I may have this a bit wrong, but it almost certainly doesn't occur on Dota 2. If that's not what he's referring to then I have no idea. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On January 25 2015 10:48 GentleDrill wrote: I think he is talking about fake bashes from illusions. If I remember correctly, in WC3 Dota (possibly only in a past version), illusions could prox a fake bash that would do something like apply a debuff and show a stun indicator without actually stunning or dealing bonus damage. However, if a fake bash procced during the stun from a real bash, it would extend the stun as if it were real. I may have this a bit wrong, but it almost certainly doesn't occur on Dota 2. If that's not what he's referring to then I have no idea. doesn't this go both ways i remember? real bash extended by fake basshes, but convsselly the fake bash is also extended by the real bash w/o doing anything | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
edit: this is assuming 1pos void. I think the more standard offlane void needs mom->mael to catch up with farm. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On January 26 2015 06:19 clickrush wrote: so when pseudo bash doesnt exist anymore then i wonder why manta isnt used on void. i assume with diffusal manta agh he has enough mana to refresh chrono? 12s chrono sounds pretty good to me. prolly need a silencer for that to protect void from cc during at least the first chrono. edit: this is assuming 1pos void. I think the more standard offlane void needs mom->mael to catch up with farm. Because Manta adds almost no damage, and the attack speed/utility from it is bad compared to MoM and Maelstrom which are half the cost each (and still cheaper when you buy both). And Diffusal/Manta/Aghs/Refresher for a 1pos...so basically no damage, and you're running your safe lane farmer purely as a Chrono setup? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
It's kinda OK super lategame if you have something like Satanic+Crit+BKB+BFly and then have a Manta to high ground with, but even then, it's situational compared to a lot of other items (i.e. you have to really want Manta to siege and remove debuffs). | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On January 26 2015 07:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: Because Manta adds almost no damage, and the attack speed/utility from it is bad compared to MoM and Maelstrom which are half the cost each (and still cheaper when you buy both). And Diffusal/Manta/Aghs/Refresher for a 1pos...so basically no damage, and you're running your safe lane farmer purely as a Chrono setup? I've seen pros do it with success against 4 protects medusa line ups, outside of this rare case... Manta is also seen if they have too much stuff piercing BKB and the remaining stuff can be dispelled (ember + SM combo for exemple). | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
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govie
9334 Posts
On January 26 2015 20:32 ahswtini wrote: go 8th slot manta after necro3 on courier for those ultralate game sieges If you allready have refresher you get double necro! | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 26 2015 07:48 WolfintheSheep wrote: Because Manta adds almost no damage, and the attack speed/utility from it is bad compared to MoM and Maelstrom which are half the cost each (and still cheaper when you buy both). And Diffusal/Manta/Aghs/Refresher for a 1pos...so basically no damage, and you're running your safe lane farmer purely as a Chrono setup? Actually, i once did the math, turns out if you get stats items + manta + diffusal manta does give you respectable dps in chrono, if they don't get insta popped. As a bonus: you can counter eblade with diffusal IIRC. The problem with the build is that it is kinda awkward to transition out of mom-mael when you can just transition into mom-mjol-bkb instead. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On January 26 2015 21:17 BluemoonSC wrote: im not really sure ive seen faceless and medusa in the same game let alone a manta void :/ Actually, there was an ig game with ferrari on void with manta-diffusal against wraith king. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
 is there a vod? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On April 11 2015 16:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Can anyone explain why you would get a battlefury over a Mjolnir on this hero? I see some pros doing it when its not against like a meepo or something where the cleave would be good. From what I can tell the regen isn't enough to sustain leaping between camps (when I tested it) and the damage from mjolnir proc, plus more bashes should outweigh the crappy 60 damage, and the farming speed should be quite comparable. I don't see how its superior to MJ at all. Why do people think AOE is good vs Meepo? How does it help you at all to hurt multiple Meepos? You only need to kill one of them. As for bfury void-- the advantage it has over mael/mjolnir is cleave crits if you chrono people when your targets are caught adjacent to each other. Additionally if you can safely farm a big damage item like bfury instead of being forced to buy cheap attack speed items, it makes you that much stronger once you do inevitably build attack speed. Thanks to time lock attack speed is good on him, but it's still best when he has a constant source of damage. Furthermore it still does farm faster than mael/mjolnir, especially against larger creep waves or stacks. Most importantly it actually lets him farm ancient stacks, which mjolnir does not, which accelerates him farm more than anything else in the game. | ||
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GentleDrill
United Kingdom672 Posts
Of course, I'm speaking in general terms here. I don't know exactly how the curve of Void's damage vs Meepo's tankiness works out and whether it means you can really expect to never be able to kill a Meepo within Chrono duration or not. Also there's bashes which might make it so he can never walk away a focused Meepo. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
With FV your huge damage comes from proccing timelock early on, MJ/MoM allow you to proc tons of timelock and lightning charges to do immense damage. Then when you build MKB/Daed after it synergyzes with your huge attack speed. I suppose you could get a butterfly later instead of one of those to work with BF, but I think the early game damage from MoM is larger than BF. It isn't a cheap AS item either, its the penultimate IAS item apart from a MoM and has a really nice buildup. I think you are approaching FV wrong. You should build IAS --> damage early since the Timelock Procs and MJ procs early on can be enormous damage, while later on you need the raw damage from MKB/Daed to level out with your super high attack speed. If you went something like MoM/BF/MKB/Daed then your attack speed would be pretty low comparatively. Swapping out the daed or MKB for a Butterfly is probably logical there I guess. The farming speed is not THAT much slower than battlefury in my experience. Although I've only dabbled in BF a few times. You definitely can't farm stacks of ancients with a MJ, but in my pubs no one is ever stacking ancients for me, so if that's the primary reason then its a shitty reason imo. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 11 2015 19:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I was throwing that example out there. I have a friend who hates playing meepo against PA's who build battlefury, Which I imagine would extend to other heroes who can reasonably carry BF, such as void and AM. Crit scaling on PA is the reason why that works. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 11 2015 19:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: The farming speed is not THAT much slower than battlefury in my experience. Although I've only dabbled in BF a few times. You definitely can't farm stacks of ancients with a MJ, but in my pubs no one is ever stacking ancients for me, so if that's the primary reason then its a shitty reason imo. You don't need someone stacking for you to make Ancients worth it. Like, people worry too much about large ancient stacks, when farming patterns that hit Ancients at like :52 after clearing lanes are worth it just for single stacks. A single stack of ancients gives like the same gold and XP as 4 jungle camps, and you clear it in a fraction of the time. BF has the problem of course that you pretty much need to finish 2 more major items after that to be relevant, whereas Mjollnir can solo-kill with a MoM or teamfight with a BKB. | ||
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