EPT[Hero] Faceless Void - Page 14
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
also bfury doesn't stop you from buying mom. i think skipping mom is a mistake in most games (at least in pubs) because it takes your solo kill potential from around 600~800 hp to around 1000~1200 hp (more if they don't have a disable or blink) | ||
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Corr
Denmark796 Posts
Mjolnir - Doesn't give you regen for laning/timewalk in jungle - Doesn't give you cleave for Ancients/illu heroes - Doesn't scale as well with lifesteal as bfury does - Doesn't deal that much damage against BKB cores - Doesn't deal with (semi)-mega creeps as fast The main thing it offers as Yango pointed out is that it lets you come online earlier. | ||
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Surprise.820
United Kingdom1276 Posts
Mjol and Timelock are both sorta underrated in the sense of magic damage rarely being mitigated (outside of immunity and the 25% on majority of heroes) compared to physical because of armour. Even if they have immunity up you still get your lovely DPS of right-click damage and IAS in general with all your equipment. The potential to do around 320+ damage post-mitigration in a single hit if both proc with physical damage (included 100 un-mitigrated to the sum for fun) is legit. That's a potential single hit in a Chrono and this will improve as the game goes on if you get more damage items or Aghs/Freshers for longer time in the dome. On the same subject, any sources of cleave damage have those lovely similar armour ignoring properties to do sick damage in an AOE with the right items (crits are fun). It's just that MoM and Mjol is easier to achieve and be versatile from an earlier point even if MoM will promise some early game activity for battlefury. Picking/randoming Void for Mom Mjol Aghs Fresher builds is p. good at dealing with stupid heroes like Slark in this disgusting patch. Aquila pretty good pick-up for flat mana regeneration and 18 damage. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On April 12 2015 18:34 Corr wrote: MoM is precisely what makes Bfury viable and in many cases superior to Mjolnir on FV. Mjolnir - Doesn't give you regen for laning/timewalk in jungle - Doesn't give you cleave for Ancients/illu heroes - Doesn't scale as well with lifesteal as bfury does - Doesn't deal that much damage against BKB cores - Doesn't deal with (semi)-mega creeps as fast The main thing it offers as Yango pointed out is that it lets you come online earlier. I think the goal is by the time they have BKB, you have actual right click items like daed/MKB. The MJ/MoM give you huge damage from your timelock and lightning procs.Then you use that to kill anyone in the game and transition into the actual damage items afterwards. At which point the IAS from MJ should be better than the 65 damage from bfury. to efficiently jungle I don't find you need to jump that frequently, and yeah Bfury would allow you to jump more, but you can just tread toggle with basi/aquila and you should be able to reasonably support it. As for lifesteal, yeah, you cant lifesteal the lightning procs but it doesn't really matter that much. I guess if by come online, you mean get 6 slotted that can be true. But if you mean become ready to kick peoples heads in, then I think the MJ lets you do that faster. As the above poster said. I think it guarantees kills early that Bfury wouldn't If you have like a skywrath or an invoker to guarantee kills then the bfury would probably be better long term. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
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wxyLkz
210 Posts
But as a carry? I doubt with the meta aiming for aggression void puts your team in a situation where they would have to fight 4v5 | ||
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Laserist
Turkey4269 Posts
On August 31 2015 19:55 wxyLkz wrote: He can still be good as a setter thats for sure. But as a carry? I doubt with the meta aiming for aggression void puts your team in a situation where they would have to fight 4v5 Disagreed. He is still one of the carries with a strong and wide power curve. He can do stuff starting from level 6-7 to ultra late game. I don't know why he is not picked at all, he is still strong despite the ulti CD nerf. IF AM is a viable option today, void can do better in teamfights even much earlier. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On September 01 2015 17:53 Laserist wrote: Disagreed. He is still one of the carries with a strong and wide power curve. He can do stuff starting from level 6-7 to ultra late game. I don't know why he is not picked at all, he is still strong despite the ulti CD nerf. IF AM is a viable option today, void can do better in teamfights even much earlier. AM hits his timings way faster, which is very important in a meta that is all about ending early. Not to mention AM doesn't have any long CDs to fight around. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On September 01 2015 20:18 superstartran wrote: AM hits his timings way faster, which is very important in a meta that is all about ending early. Not to mention AM doesn't have any long CDs to fight around. pretty sure AM is only relevant with the amount of storm / lesh this patch. Void hits his timing way earlier, his chrono is basically a free kill or a good team fight. AM will have 0 contribution in teamfight except manavoid, and has to out farm by a huge margin to have any impact. Void can always land a sick chrono any time of the game, timewalk gives a slow for chase, and with MoM + bash you have solo kill potentials. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On September 01 2015 17:53 Laserist wrote: Disagreed. He is still one of the carries with a strong and wide power curve. He can do stuff starting from level 6-7 to ultra late game. I don't know why he is not picked at all, he is still strong despite the ulti CD nerf. IF AM is a viable option today, void can do better in teamfights even much earlier. Various nerfs to his skillset and items, plus the shift in midlane responsibilites. Void was a great safelane carry when the midlane was essentially a stalemate, which allowed him to farm Treads + MoM at a reasonable time. Solar Crest and Glimmer Cape screw him over. The necessity of MKB due to SC + Chrono nerfs made his already strained item progression untenable. Throw in some of the best defensive supports en vogue like WW, ES, etc. and he's boned. Now MoM is fairly weak due to all the burst damage and BKB-piercing ultimates, BF is out of the question, and Midas + Aghs is trash (and always was). Currently his only stable item build is Aquila + PMS -> Maelstrom, which makes the hero predictable. On September 01 2015 21:20 BurningSera wrote: You need agha for this patch really and that's exactly the problem, he doesn't have the farming or fighting capability to afford that one slot in early-mid game dedicated for agha especially because you need treads+mom before everything else. If he could afford Aghs, he would still be bottom-tier since Aghs-first builds imply a host of other things he has no access to. | ||
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Koromon
United States304 Posts
On September 02 2015 04:36 CosmicSpiral wrote: Now MoM is fairly weak due to all the burst damage and BKB-piercing ultimates, BF is out of the question, and Midas + Aghs is trash (and always was). Currently his only stable item build is Aquila + PMS -> Maelstrom, which makes the hero predictable. The predictability point is moot. I mean, saying that AM is going to go treads --> Bfury as predictable... doesn't make him weak or anything. (PMS + Aquila + Mael ~~ 500 + 1k + 3k ~= 4.5k Battlefury.) I think the two main problems are (echoing others), is that MoM is mandatory but gets to destroyed by everything, and the long cool down of his ult. An Aghs on void just isn't the same as an aghs on qop  Also, I think to a certain extent is the fact that silver edge makes void a piece of crap. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On September 02 2015 13:05 Koromon wrote: The predictability point is moot. I mean, saying that AM is going to go treads --> Bfury as predictable... doesn't make him weak or anything. (PMS + Aquila + Mael ~~ 500 + 1k + 3k ~= 4.5k Battlefury.) I think the two main problems are (echoing others), is that MoM is mandatory but gets to destroyed by everything, and the long cool down of his ult. An Aghs on void just isn't the same as an aghs on qop Also, I think to a certain extent is the fact that silver edge makes void a piece of crap. Antimage is a timebomb that forces the enemy team to respond (both in the draft and the first 15-20 minutes of the game), and that dynamic has existed since he was introduced to Dota 2. The way people think about Void now is a relic of 6.80-6.81 and how team fighting worked back then. MoM->Maelstrom was never mandatory, it was just the best possible build for that era. Silver Edge crushes him, but it's not common enough to make a huge impact. Glimmer Cape and Solar Crest are much worse as supports can easily afford them, and Void doesn't have a way to address either. Chronosphere is very underwhelming now after all the nerfs. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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lxginverse
Monaco1506 Posts
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wxyLkz
210 Posts
On September 01 2015 17:53 Laserist wrote: Disagreed. He is still one of the carries with a strong and wide power curve. He can do stuff starting from level 6-7 to ultra late game. I don't know why he is not picked at all, he is still strong despite the ulti CD nerf. IF AM is a viable option today, void can do better in teamfights even much earlier. Yeah I do agree with that the hero has a great potential but the meta now is that carry should be fighting around 20-30mins. which means void has not yet reach its full potential but as a setter he does excel | ||
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wxyLkz
210 Posts
AM's late game is other heroes mid game so that means AM can fight earlier and join team fights than other carries | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On September 01 2015 21:35 evanthebouncy! wrote: pretty sure AM is only relevant with the amount of storm / lesh this patch. Void hits his timing way earlier, his chrono is basically a free kill or a good team fight. AM will have 0 contribution in teamfight except manavoid, and has to out farm by a huge margin to have any impact. Void can always land a sick chrono any time of the game, timewalk gives a slow for chase, and with MoM + bash you have solo kill potentials. That's not even remotely true. AM is viable because of his ability to hit his item timings far faster than any other HC in the game, so at 'midgame' he's already got 3/4 items when other carries have 2 at best. Void will have BKB/One Dmg item at best, and in order for him to be relevant in team fights he needs to have Aghs which gimps his damage big time for quite sometime on the power curve. AM the second he gets bfury ramps up big time on the power curve, and just gets better and better until ultra late which almost all games never go to. | ||
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