EPTBUT if you are trenchtier like me, i GARANTEE that 8 out of 10 trolls suck without statitem backbone (like i do). So, papers build is legit and it works well for me in duallane AP pubs and paper on any position. If you suck and need to learn troll, i think phase+bottle+drum+yasha as a core itemsetup is really good and alot more stable then those glascannon builds.
[Hero] Troll Warlord - Page 9
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govie
9334 Posts
BUT if you are trenchtier like me, i GARANTEE that 8 out of 10 trolls suck without statitem backbone (like i do). So, papers build is legit and it works well for me in duallane AP pubs and paper on any position. If you suck and need to learn troll, i think phase+bottle+drum+yasha as a core itemsetup is really good and alot more stable then those glascannon builds. | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
pros are somehow fixated on buying meka on cores for w.e reason out of all the heroes troll is prolly the one that drums is most core on... | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On November 07 2014 00:30 ChunderBoy wrote: i think meka is pretty awful on troll, especially after 6.82.... pros are somehow fixated on buying meka on cores for w.e reason Well, it was pretty important in deathball nigh-allin push strats (much moreso for competitive games), and cores could pick them up much more quickly. But yeah you don't really have mana for mek on troll anymore. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
I guess that's the same concept behind troll, but I agree..i don't see a reason to not grab drums over mek on this hero. | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On November 07 2014 03:37 BluemoonSC wrote: well, if you look at a core like viper, mek makes him almost invincible in the early game and it helps your team as a whole for any early aggression AND he can farm it really easily. I guess that's the same concept behind troll, but I agree..i don't see a reason to not grab drums over mek on this hero. Troll has much more severe mana problems (early on) than Viper does, however. Good vipers only need a poison attack every few seconds and 125/175/225 mana to ult, and the rest can be used for mek. Troll has much shorter CD's to work with, so it hurts him quite a bit more. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
as in, you only think that viper's 15 + 1.8int/level is bad until you realise troll is 13 + 1int/level | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
Troll lvl16 with phase+bottle+mek and no statitems has a manapool = 390+(5*13)= 455 manapool Assumption: Spellusage during a fight should be 4 nukes+ult+mek = 4*50+75+225 = 500 manapool The bottle has no influence during fights only inbetween farm/fights, using the mek drains 50% of trolls manapool without any extra int-items. E:updated it when u began typing  | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
wand if u get it is 3 more. even if u dont a full stick is 150 mana u can cast everything with a few stick charges but its still ass | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Troll doesn't play that way. His mana gates him in long, drawn-out fights, and his ability-based damage comes in the first 7 seconds of the fight until you have damage items and higher levels. EDIT: Also Mek makes Viper "invincible" because of Corrosive Skin, which limits the effectiveness of using spells to kill him, so he really just needs to buffer HP and armor. Troll is basically the exact opposite cuz melee Whirling Axes gives miss chance and Troll gets good armor from Agility + early game free armor from Berserker's Rage, but lacks survivability against spells. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
I do not agree with getting mek on troll. | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
Troll is very hard to play from behind with, I find. He is so tempo based | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On November 08 2014 01:05 ahw wrote: Well I mean traditionally you look at Mek like: someone's gotta make it fast so we can death ball / counter their deathball. I think that's all there is to it regardless of hero. Troll is very hard to play from behind with, I find. He is so tempo based his ult is still nice, provided you have other right clickers on your team | ||
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
after a few levels, you've got a big movespeed advantage on everybody. practice toggling q while chasing enemies -- you run faster in melee, toggle to range to throw an attack, toggle back to melee to chase, etc. You can kite / run away the same way. If you intentionally leave ranged form on when leaving a team fight, you can switch to melee and phase and get like 80 bonus MS. This is useful to draw the team to you and make them think they can chase you. actively toggle your Q when being auto attacked. Usually for the first few levels you use ranged to lh/deny/harass, switch to melee when you are being hit by a ranged auto attack for the bonus armor. | ||
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Surprise.820
United Kingdom1276 Posts
Maximising your regeneration with any aggressive hero is going to help you big time in lane especially with such a bullying hero. | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On November 09 2014 18:41 ahw wrote: so there isn't much talk about non-item builds in this thread yet. here are some basic tricks that help a lot.. after a few levels, you've got a big movespeed advantage on everybody. practice toggling q while chasing enemies -- you run faster in melee, toggle to range to throw an attack, toggle back to melee to chase, etc. You can kite / run away the same way. If you intentionally leave ranged form on when leaving a team fight, you can switch to melee and phase and get like 80 bonus MS. This is useful to draw the team to you and make them think they can chase you. actively toggle your Q when being auto attacked. Usually for the first few levels you use ranged to lh/deny/harass, switch to melee when you are being hit by a ranged auto attack for the bonus armor. In regards to this, making sure you time your phase charges are really important for Troll. You have a considerably higher MS in Melee, so the idea is you want to pop your phase while you are in melee form. So if you are chasing someone, you want to throw ranged whirling axes, go into melee, phase, start right clicking, ult, whatever. Or make sure you pop your phase after drums charges while in melee etc. Its actually pretty important to time that properly. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6229 Posts
Actually now that I think about it, I have no idea how ms stacking works at all. I guess I assumed all the % modifiers only counted base and flat ms from boots/euls etc | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
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Vikeif
126 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 11 2014 07:02 govie wrote: Iirc if you phase before drums, the drums override the phasespeed and you go slower haha, but if you activate the phaseboots after the drums then both can be added on top of eachother. This. Phase Boots' MS buff is canceled by activating other items or using skills because it is coded as a Wind Walk with longer fade time than duration. % MS buffs only multiply base + flat MS (boots, Eul's, etc). They don't multiply each other. | ||
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