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On March 30 2016 04:58 Nightmarjoo wrote:
I didn't watch replay.
Your lasthits are pretty low, and I can only assume you were losing gold every death or bought back a few times, because you do have a lot of kills but still no farm. Not being 6slotted an hour in is pretty rough-- you aren't going to outcompete two hard carries with 3 items.
With no Radiance or Diffusal there's no special strength to your ult-- but that also means you don't really need to save it for a fight. That means you should be looking to try and pick the Warlock solo using your ult when he's vulnerable-- then your team should easily win a teamfight if they allow it 4v5, and if they hide you get a free objective and/or complete map control-- which lets you get better wards up, push in all three lanes, secure both jungles, and get Rosh if possible.
Your team lacking a pipe hurt a lot, but you don't necessarily control that.
You may have needed MKB over Abyssal (or have both ideally) because of that Solar Crest, but you did say you were blowing the Visage up pretty quickly so that may not have mattered.
I dunno if you had Diffusal early on and sold it, but having one is pretty good vs the Sven. That item can completely nullify him in a fight before he has BKB or after his BKB has ended. An hour in I'm sure he was on 5s charge, which meant since he had no blink a Diffusal would absolutely have helped control him in fights.
Don't disregard Warlock after he ults-- stopping him from slowing everything is important in letting you engage and disengage appropriately.
They had a lot of magic/pure damage-- I'm not sure why you think BKB was bad there. BKB literally protects you from at least one aspect of every single hero on their team. Since OD was clearly the bigger problem than Sven you probably would have been fine going BKB after Manta rather than Skadi. Without watching the game I don't fully understand your item progression or choices though.
Thanks for the feedback.
Yeah my gpm should have been higher I still don't farm well in the midgame, especially not on a "slow" farmer like Spectre and when my team is fighting a lot. Should prolly just ignore people getting caught out of position instead of stopping my farming. People fought so much that I barely was able to farm more than 1 or 2 camps between fights.
Didn't get diffu, Sven was a lot split pushing and joined fights either very late or not at all. So I wouldn't be surprised if his bkb was at 8 seconds. With OD going bkb and the 2 sups being food to me anyways I didn't consider diffu being worth the pick up, so I used haunt mainly to join fights and for positioning.
Totally forgot about the diffu wl golem interaction, if that still works Diffu would have been a good pickup.
I could just stick to wl for 2 seconds and make him stop channeling his slow (or kill him). After that I don't see how he participates anything meaningful. I don't get bonded easily thanks to ultimate and manta.
I'm not sure where you see the magical damage, I killed aa with every haunt first. After that it's soul assumption and OD and visage was often my second target if I could pinpoint him. WL and Sven both are almost exclusively physical. I agree that bkb would still have been the call, when Sven started joining the fights I got slowed down by atos etc, which led to one death I should have avoided. Mainly though for the fact that it's great vs OD.
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Diffusal purge does not destroy Golems anymore.
BKB stops the following:
AA everything, including the magic damage amplification from vortex
OD everything, including pure damage orb and scaling magic damage ult
Warlock ult-- golem immolation (magic), golem flaming fists (pure)
Sven storm hammer (stun)
Visage nuke
Even if you get hit by nothing of AA or Visage you're probably a big target for Sven's stun if he doesn't use it for initiation (which without blink he may not be). With Aghs Refresher you're taking damage from the golems during the fight no matter what. And of course all of OD's damage output is blocked by BKB.
The tricky part is that without any burst damage you're unlikely to kill OD during BKB active, but in a 1v1 in a vacuum if he has BKB and you don't then he's taking almost no damage from you (most of your damage being pure or magical) while you're taking (and not reflecting to him) all of his dps. The other threat is you getting Astraled and simply removed from the fight for 4s while they wreck your team. That's on a 10s cd at level 4-- if you get Astraled as soon as you ult in, then he BKBs when you're out, then astrals you 1s after his 5s BKB is over you're spending most of the fight being pretty useless. You can't always just count on Illusions being confusing.
I would never just not kill an enemy hero just because they've gone through most of their contribution. Any time you didn't kill Warlock opens the opportunity for him to get more xp and assist-gold, which helps him get level 3 ult and his aghs refresher earlier. Any time you had to disengage after not being able to kill OD or Sven where you also didn't kill Warlock is gold and xp you and your team didn't get. You don't really have the burst damage or utility to prevent OD and Sven from doing their thing in fights, so you're not really losing anything by killing Warlock before focusing them (or disengaging). Did your team ever have an Urn? That could be urn charges you didn't give your team by not killing him, which could have made a difference in the fight or later.
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On March 30 2016 10:31 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Diffusal purge does not destroy Golems anymore.
BKB stops the following:
AA everything, including the magic damage amplification from vortex
OD everything, including pure damage orb and scaling magic damage ult
Warlock ult-- golem immolation (magic), golem flaming fists (pure)
Sven storm hammer (stun)
Visage nuke
Even if you get hit by nothing of AA or Visage you're probably a big target for Sven's stun if he doesn't use it for initiation (which without blink he may not be). With Aghs Refresher you're taking damage from the golems during the fight no matter what. And of course all of OD's damage output is blocked by BKB.
The tricky part is that without any burst damage you're unlikely to kill OD during BKB active, but in a 1v1 in a vacuum if he has BKB and you don't then he's taking almost no damage from you (most of your damage being pure or magical) while you're taking (and not reflecting to him) all of his dps. The other threat is you getting Astraled and simply removed from the fight for 4s while they wreck your team. That's on a 10s cd at level 4-- if you get Astraled as soon as you ult in, then he BKBs when you're out, then astrals you 1s after his 5s BKB is over you're spending most of the fight being pretty useless. You can't always just count on Illusions being confusing.
I would never just not kill an enemy hero just because they've gone through most of their contribution. Any time you didn't kill Warlock opens the opportunity for him to get more xp and assist-gold, which helps him get level 3 ult and his aghs refresher earlier. Any time you had to disengage after not being able to kill OD or Sven where you also didn't kill Warlock is gold and xp you and your team didn't get. You don't really have the burst damage or utility to prevent OD and Sven from doing their thing in fights, so you're not really losing anything by killing Warlock before focusing them (or disengaging). Did your team ever have an Urn? That could be urn charges you didn't give your team by not killing him, which could have made a difference in the fight or later.
Ok ty, good to know^^ Really wasn't sure about the diffu golem interaction.
I had an urn but sold it when I got an aegis. Don't think anyone else got one.
Yeah I don't think killing wl is wrong, he's just tanky for the impact he provides with aghs after his initial round of spells. So killing or driving away the OD seemed more meaningful to me for winning the fights, but I might have dealt with wl fast enough that it would have been worth it. Maybe too much support mentality here, "my team is dying I need to deal with OD to keep them alive" might be worse than the greedier choice that limits wl's growth. It's true that I couldn't do much but tank him once he activated bkb.
Most fights were terrible/super chaotic because our three strength-heroes for some reason always wanted to force fights, pushed as 3 and got initiated on. Since the enemies seemed disorganized in the same way, I haunted in and we fought 4v4 with wr being somewhere in the proximity (usually 2-3 minutes late to the fight) and Sven splitpushing.
Afaik flaming fist isnt blocked and since i'm coming from the backline for the most part, I was rarely near golems unless I wanted to kill them.
I agree that imprisonment might have been a problem, but OD just didn't counterplay reality. He used imprisonment 90% of the time defensively.
I think I was either hit by one or zero stormhammers, as mentioned before Sven was pretty much always late to the party if he even showed up at all. I manta-dodged it the one time I remember him casting it on me.
That leaves soul assumption and everything from OD. I agree that OD might have been important enough to just get bkb for him, being able to fight him 1v1 was the entire idea behind abyssal.
For some reason OD didn't want to fight the illusions, which made fighting him somewhat possible in the first place.
What would your 6-slot in a game like this look like? I started building into ac, I guess with bkb bfly would have been an option.
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On March 30 2016 11:52 Blackfeather wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2016 10:31 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Diffusal purge does not destroy Golems anymore.
BKB stops the following:
AA everything, including the magic damage amplification from vortex
OD everything, including pure damage orb and scaling magic damage ult
Warlock ult-- golem immolation (magic), golem flaming fists (pure)
Sven storm hammer (stun)
Visage nuke
Even if you get hit by nothing of AA or Visage you're probably a big target for Sven's stun if he doesn't use it for initiation (which without blink he may not be). With Aghs Refresher you're taking damage from the golems during the fight no matter what. And of course all of OD's damage output is blocked by BKB.
The tricky part is that without any burst damage you're unlikely to kill OD during BKB active, but in a 1v1 in a vacuum if he has BKB and you don't then he's taking almost no damage from you (most of your damage being pure or magical) while you're taking (and not reflecting to him) all of his dps. The other threat is you getting Astraled and simply removed from the fight for 4s while they wreck your team. That's on a 10s cd at level 4-- if you get Astraled as soon as you ult in, then he BKBs when you're out, then astrals you 1s after his 5s BKB is over you're spending most of the fight being pretty useless. You can't always just count on Illusions being confusing.
I would never just not kill an enemy hero just because they've gone through most of their contribution. Any time you didn't kill Warlock opens the opportunity for him to get more xp and assist-gold, which helps him get level 3 ult and his aghs refresher earlier. Any time you had to disengage after not being able to kill OD or Sven where you also didn't kill Warlock is gold and xp you and your team didn't get. You don't really have the burst damage or utility to prevent OD and Sven from doing their thing in fights, so you're not really losing anything by killing Warlock before focusing them (or disengaging). Did your team ever have an Urn? That could be urn charges you didn't give your team by not killing him, which could have made a difference in the fight or later. Ok ty, good to know^^ Really wasn't sure about the diffu golem interaction. I had an urn but sold it when I got an aegis. Don't think anyone else got one. Yeah I don't think killing wl is wrong, he's just tanky for the impact he provides with aghs after his initial round of spells. So killing or driving away the OD seemed more meaningful to me for winning the fights, but I might have dealt with wl fast enough that it would have been worth it. Maybe too much support mentality here, "my team is dying I need to deal with OD to keep them alive" might be worse than the greedier choice that limits wl's growth. It's true that I couldn't do much but tank him once he activated bkb. Most fights were terrible/super chaotic because our three strength-heroes for some reason always wanted to force fights, pushed as 3 and got initiated on. Since the enemies seemed disorganized in the same way, I haunted in and we fought 4v4 with wr being somewhere in the proximity (usually 2-3 minutes late to the fight) and Sven splitpushing. Afaik flaming fist isnt blocked and since i'm coming from the backline for the most part, I was rarely near golems unless I wanted to kill them. I agree that imprisonment might have been a problem, but OD just didn't counterplay reality. He used imprisonment 90% of the time defensively. I think I was either hit by one or zero stormhammers, as mentioned before Sven was pretty much always late to the party if he even showed up at all. I manta-dodged it the one time I remember him casting it on me. That leaves soul assumption and everything from OD. I agree that OD might have been important enough to just get bkb for him, being able to fight him 1v1 was the entire idea behind abyssal. For some reason OD didn't want to fight the illusions, which made fighting him somewhat possible in the first place. What would your 6-slot in a game like this look like? I started building into ac, I guess with bkb bfly would have been an option.
Butterfly and skadi are two strong items. Evasion is really strong vs OD cause he never wants to build an MKB and hex no longer removes evasion. It also boosts the strength of your illusions, and is all around good item for you. Skadi gives you health, bkb piercing slow and gives that to haunt illusions.
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On March 30 2016 12:13 the bear jew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2016 11:52 Blackfeather wrote:On March 30 2016 10:31 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Diffusal purge does not destroy Golems anymore.
BKB stops the following:
AA everything, including the magic damage amplification from vortex
OD everything, including pure damage orb and scaling magic damage ult
Warlock ult-- golem immolation (magic), golem flaming fists (pure)
Sven storm hammer (stun)
Visage nuke
Even if you get hit by nothing of AA or Visage you're probably a big target for Sven's stun if he doesn't use it for initiation (which without blink he may not be). With Aghs Refresher you're taking damage from the golems during the fight no matter what. And of course all of OD's damage output is blocked by BKB.
The tricky part is that without any burst damage you're unlikely to kill OD during BKB active, but in a 1v1 in a vacuum if he has BKB and you don't then he's taking almost no damage from you (most of your damage being pure or magical) while you're taking (and not reflecting to him) all of his dps. The other threat is you getting Astraled and simply removed from the fight for 4s while they wreck your team. That's on a 10s cd at level 4-- if you get Astraled as soon as you ult in, then he BKBs when you're out, then astrals you 1s after his 5s BKB is over you're spending most of the fight being pretty useless. You can't always just count on Illusions being confusing.
I would never just not kill an enemy hero just because they've gone through most of their contribution. Any time you didn't kill Warlock opens the opportunity for him to get more xp and assist-gold, which helps him get level 3 ult and his aghs refresher earlier. Any time you had to disengage after not being able to kill OD or Sven where you also didn't kill Warlock is gold and xp you and your team didn't get. You don't really have the burst damage or utility to prevent OD and Sven from doing their thing in fights, so you're not really losing anything by killing Warlock before focusing them (or disengaging). Did your team ever have an Urn? That could be urn charges you didn't give your team by not killing him, which could have made a difference in the fight or later. Ok ty, good to know^^ Really wasn't sure about the diffu golem interaction. I had an urn but sold it when I got an aegis. Don't think anyone else got one. Yeah I don't think killing wl is wrong, he's just tanky for the impact he provides with aghs after his initial round of spells. So killing or driving away the OD seemed more meaningful to me for winning the fights, but I might have dealt with wl fast enough that it would have been worth it. Maybe too much support mentality here, "my team is dying I need to deal with OD to keep them alive" might be worse than the greedier choice that limits wl's growth. It's true that I couldn't do much but tank him once he activated bkb. Most fights were terrible/super chaotic because our three strength-heroes for some reason always wanted to force fights, pushed as 3 and got initiated on. Since the enemies seemed disorganized in the same way, I haunted in and we fought 4v4 with wr being somewhere in the proximity (usually 2-3 minutes late to the fight) and Sven splitpushing. Afaik flaming fist isnt blocked and since i'm coming from the backline for the most part, I was rarely near golems unless I wanted to kill them. I agree that imprisonment might have been a problem, but OD just didn't counterplay reality. He used imprisonment 90% of the time defensively. I think I was either hit by one or zero stormhammers, as mentioned before Sven was pretty much always late to the party if he even showed up at all. I manta-dodged it the one time I remember him casting it on me. That leaves soul assumption and everything from OD. I agree that OD might have been important enough to just get bkb for him, being able to fight him 1v1 was the entire idea behind abyssal. For some reason OD didn't want to fight the illusions, which made fighting him somewhat possible in the first place. What would your 6-slot in a game like this look like? I started building into ac, I guess with bkb bfly would have been an option. Butterfly and skadi are two strong items. Evasion is really strong vs OD cause he never wants to build an MKB and hex no longer removes evasion. It also boosts the strength of your illusions, and is all around good item for you. Skadi gives you health, bkb piercing slow and gives that to haunt illusions.
Yeah were my first 2 ideas after manta, with OD getting Atos however I decided to go Skadi. I guess I could have waited for od to use atos on me to manta it, but that would have been a lot of dps on the sups that would have been lost. So without BKB I didn't feel too well going bfly against Atos.
K after checking the accuracy mechanic Bfly would still have been decent with 21% reduction. Didn't know by the time I played the game whether accuracy stacks multiplicatively or additively with evasion. Assumed it's additively (because it's weak against everything but windrun else), but according to liquipedia it's mutliplicatively.
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Sorry you're right; flaming fists aren't blocked by bkb even though they're pure.
I don't think I would have skipped Radiance this game, even if you wanted to grab Manta first.` So my first soft 6slot this game would have been phase aquila (or urn I guess) (drum if you made it) manta radiance heart/skadi. First real 6slot would be bots manta radiance heart/skadi bfly mkb/abyssal. Then you'd swap out Radiance for either daedalus or the other of abyssal/mkb you didn't build.
Skadi is really strong vs the Sven, but Heart is better vs the OD (and is better in general because of the disengage-reengage potential it offers that Spectre has so much synergy with). I prefer Heart, and you usually don't want both, but that's your call.
Butterfly is really good here, but I can see the merit in grabbing abyssal over it first, especially if you needed to fight on ~3k gold and just grabbed basher in shop, or you were sitting on gold, deliberately died without ult then bought back, bought basher with excess gold, and ulted in, etc.
If you really think this kind of progression was unrealistic, as you said you were fighting almost non-stop, you could try something like Manta Halberd Basher. I didn't list BKB anywhere, but honestly if you felt you did need it you could throw it in to any of these builds anywhere after Manta. I could definitely see Manta Radiance BKB or Manta Halberd BKB doing well here. These 3-4k gold items might be easier to finish if you're struggling to hold onto gold. I'd say it's better to have a somewhat soft 6slot (something like phase drum manta halberd bkb basher) than just a real 3slot (manta skadi abyssal).
The other item I haven't mentioned that could have helped you here is Blademail. If you notice that at least one of Sven/OD are using their BKBs before you have to fight them straight-up you can just go Blademail and use it once you're in a 1v1 with them. OD in particular will not enjoy having his orb damage reflected. Sven may not actually notice, but you can kite him and ignore him much more easily.
AC is really good on Spectre most of the time, but it's not more important than items like Radiance, Manta, Heart, maybe Refresher, etc. In this particular game it's a little lackluster, because armour doesn't protect you from OD's pure or magic damage nor from Sven's cleave damage.
edit: btw if the Atos slow is fucking you up, you could definitely have used Diffusal to remove it if you wanted to blow through Manta. I still dunno if I'd ever skip both Radiance and Diffusal in any scenario (leaning towards no, but shit happens I guess).
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On March 31 2016 02:07 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Sorry you're right; flaming fists aren't blocked by bkb even though they're pure.
I don't think I would have skipped Radiance this game, even if you wanted to grab Manta first.` So my first soft 6slot this game would have been phase aquila (or urn I guess) (drum if you made it) manta radiance heart/skadi. First real 6slot would be bots manta radiance heart/skadi bfly mkb/abyssal. Then you'd swap out Radiance for either daedalus or the other of abyssal/mkb you didn't build.
Skadi is really strong vs the Sven, but Heart is better vs the OD (and is better in general because of the disengage-reengage potential it offers that Spectre has so much synergy with). I prefer Heart, and you usually don't want both, but that's your call.
Butterfly is really good here, but I can see the merit in grabbing abyssal over it first, especially if you needed to fight on ~3k gold and just grabbed basher in shop, or you were sitting on gold, deliberately died without ult then bought back, bought basher with excess gold, and ulted in, etc.
If you really think this kind of progression was unrealistic, as you said you were fighting almost non-stop, you could try something like Manta Halberd Basher. I didn't list BKB anywhere, but honestly if you felt you did need it you could throw it in to any of these builds anywhere after Manta. I could definitely see Manta Radiance BKB or Manta Halberd BKB doing well here. These 3-4k gold items might be easier to finish if you're struggling to hold onto gold. I'd say it's better to have a somewhat soft 6slot (something like phase drum manta halberd bkb basher) than just a real 3slot (manta skadi abyssal).
The other item I haven't mentioned that could have helped you here is Blademail. If you notice that at least one of Sven/OD are using their BKBs before you have to fight them straight-up you can just go Blademail and use it once you're in a 1v1 with them. OD in particular will not enjoy having his orb damage reflected. Sven may not actually notice, but you can kite him and ignore him much more easily.
AC is really good on Spectre most of the time, but it's not more important than items like Radiance, Manta, Heart, maybe Refresher, etc. In this particular game it's a little lackluster, because armour doesn't protect you from OD's pure or magic damage nor from Sven's cleave damage.
edit: btw if the Atos slow is fucking you up, you could definitely have used Diffusal to remove it if you wanted to blow through Manta. I still dunno if I'd ever skip both Radiance and Diffusal in any scenario (leaning towards no, but shit happens I guess).
Thanks 
np, dota mechanics are super confusing <.<
I went urn+drums. Honestly I think that was what kept us in the game and from loosing fights entirely between minutes 10 and 30. OD was snowballing super hard, which is not surprising since we had only two damage dealing cores and wr was never with the other 3. So the only source of damage had to be me for most of the game. Maybe I should have sticked more to the other 3, considering how defensive their heroes were and that they lacked a good target for their spells.
So yeah, I had to manfight bkbed OD every fight. Which was one of the reasons why I didn't go diffu.
I'm not used to "late" radiance yet (after drums), but that might have been the pickup anyways. Just accelerate my farming speed and allow me to get the next item faster. Also melts gravekeepers cloak, which is nice and deals magic damage to everyone. Might have forced OD to bkb earlier, which would have been great.
If I knew then how accuracy interacted with evasion I would have prolly gone bfly instead of going for ac. But yeah skipping drums for sange, going for sny first and disassemble into manta halberd might have been good.
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Gave the Arteezy build a try in a game when they had a safe-lane LD and I wanted a faster Radi. It worked out very well but I'm still not sold on it. I don't think I spend enough time in the jungle to warrant Treads/Morbid in most games, just Phase/Wand/Urn is probably a better build when you want a faster Radi timing.
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On March 31 2016 06:43 ZerG~LegenD wrote:
Gave the Arteezy build a try in a game when they had a safe-lane LD and I wanted a faster Radi. It worked out very well but I'm still not sold on it. I don't think I spend enough time in the jungle to warrant Treads/Morbid in most games, just Phase/Wand/Urn is probably a better build when you want a faster Radi timing.
Its also probalby better for pubs to go phase wand urn and consider either aquila or drums, just because you can help ganks work out that are otherwise poorly executed.
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On March 31 2016 06:43 ZerG~LegenD wrote:
Gave the Arteezy build a try in a game when they had a safe-lane LD and I wanted a faster Radi. It worked out very well but I'm still not sold on it. I don't think I spend enough time in the jungle to warrant Treads/Morbid in most games, just Phase/Wand/Urn is probably a better build when you want a faster Radi timing.
I might be wrong on this, but imo phase is way too good vs LD to skip them. Daggering him and the bear (to keep the bear from teleporting and removing your desolate) gives you an easy kill every support rotation unless he gets a lucky entangle or your sup stuns too early. At least on even exp.
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Thoughts on itemization for early-game sustain?
Is Urn still viable? I really, really, really don't like going Vanguard unless there's a really good reason (e.g. troll, WR, illusion hero). I've tried getting a casual ring of health, which *kind* of works when I'm getting pressured in lane heavily, but has felt really bad / slow in the games where I've tried it.
...But Urn has felt really underwhelming since the most recent nerfs to the item, combined with the cool-down increase on Spectre's ultimate... Especially when your team is behind, which lets face it, is most of the time because you're on Spectre.
I've seen MoM popping up a few times in high MMR games... haven't tried it myself yet but it seems like it could be very good (positive effects on sustain, farming speed, and teamfight damage) + your lvl 10 talent has a +5 armor branch to offset to active if you're really worried about it. Haunt into the backlines and desolate down a squishy support.
Thoughts?
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phase urn, almost every game until you see a good difference in doing something else.
i dont think the new recipe is a nerf, raindrops can let you skip aquila, but certainly aquila is more valuable for farming than an urn. you're asking for sustain though so
in my opinion, MoM would only work if you're ahead. it is 2k total and you must save up for the first 1.1k component.
your other option is hood and i feel you have to look at this value by understanding where you will be farming and which hero(es) are going to be waiting to see if they can try and kill you.
finally, if you can get away with supplanting urn for wand, i think that is value when your team is farmy and low kill potential.
so in order (of likelihood) for that purchase, i would do:
Urn
Aquila
Wand
RoH
Hood
MoM
straight radiance rush
the real answer is, however, whatever works for you and makes you comfortable playing. some people still do treads + RoH jungling until radiance. some people still rush radiance like it were 2 major patches ago.
the hero's strength early on is to kill steal and relocate lanes to farm safely, that is why urn is good for its cost, and nothing can really take its place for this hero.
but you are right about the one common thing across all spectre games being that you won't be hitting creeps very often during laning.
if you are lacking experience, try booting up a replay and checking when and where the spectre player buys their items. this is important as RoH and raindrops are more valuable the earlier you get them, as are phase boots if you can manage to get them early enough to impact the lane (5m or so).
it's not entirely up to you when you get the money for these items during laning, but every detail matters regardless.
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Imho MoM is an item if the game is either going really badly or your team is doing really well.
If your team is stomping left right center and your tempo mid (QoP f.e.) is taking off and killing ppl all the time, MoM allows you to amp the damage of haunt a little more. It delays your radiance only by a bit, but it should give you ~2 autoattacks more on average and is useful in TFs if the enemies lack lockdown.
If your game is terrible because they controlled your lane and now your jungle and you are estimating a ~30minute radiance, going MoM allows you to camp their jungle infinitely (if they don't have a mobile/stealth roamer/initiator). It's not a bad farming item and the disassemble is good too.
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There was a pro match recently (i think it was secret vs someone) where the Spectre went brown boots --> aquila ---> MoM --> radiance
She was in poverty mode, but it the team made space and it worked out... it let her farm waves much faster, minimizing the amount of time she was vulnerable in lane. And ofc the sustain & movement speed helped alot. What I think is great about MoM is that it has scaling potential as you accumulate more damage and levels.
That being said, after trying out a few builds I'm back to Phase/Urn --> whatever I feel is next best item (usually radiance, but early blademail has been clutch a few times).
But the longer CD on her ult makes that build REALLY hurt if you can't score some charges with your first haunt. I play very conservatively in solo-q so usually its not an issue.. but when it is, man it feels bad...man
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mom is for catchup with little fights happening
Phase Drums are really good with a ganking team that wants to fight a lot
You can TP to figths now too not just haunt in
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If they have magic burst supports you get drop anyways tho
It always feels ultra cost effective going for an urn from that last raindrop charge
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tbh i dont think you can properly judge spectre builds unless ur at a very high level of play like 6k+ or something
because that hero can win games when crazy far behind if a team doesnt know how to end the game. and nobody does till u gte to high 5k or something it certainly doesnt happen at low 5k
items pretty much dont matter
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mmm i agree with everything except items not mattering. they most certainly do matter.
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On June 23 2017 00:02 ahw wrote:
tbh i dont think you can properly judge spectre builds unless ur at a very high level of play like 6k+ or something
because that hero can win games when crazy far behind if a team doesnt know how to end the game. and nobody does till u gte to high 5k or something it certainly doesnt happen at low 5k
items pretty much dont matter
Lolwut
The items are really important. In case of Spectre especially as you can go so many ways
Sometimes you e.g. get to go to midas at 17 minutes and it's the right play
Other times Vanguard build's good etc. etc. and you need to react to lineups and how the game is doing if fights will be happening etc.
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On June 23 2017 23:29 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2017 00:02 ahw wrote:
tbh i dont think you can properly judge spectre builds unless ur at a very high level of play like 6k+ or something
because that hero can win games when crazy far behind if a team doesnt know how to end the game. and nobody does till u gte to high 5k or something it certainly doesnt happen at low 5k
items pretty much dont matter Lolwut The items are really important. In case of Spectre especially as you can go so many ways Sometimes you e.g. get to go to midas at 17 minutes and it's the right play Other times Vanguard build's good etc. etc. and you need to react to lineups and how the game is doing if fights will be happening etc.
Yeah but I was trying to say is decision making on spec is going to trump item builds almost every time, more so than most heroes. Probably more than any hero in dota
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EPT
