|
On March 23 2016 10:10 Nightmarjoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2016 20:25 superstartran wrote:On March 21 2016 02:35 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Radiance is a pretty weak lategame item; once you start optimizing your 6slot Radiance is the first thing to go. If it's not your first or maybe second major item, don't build it at all. If you're getting your shit pushed in and need waveclear, Mjollnir or Battlefury will serve you better.
Before the drum resurgence I was a strong advocate of not rushing Relic ever. I always found that if I tried to go straight Radiance that by the time I actually picked up the Relic even with fantastic farm that I didn't have the space to finish Radiance at the same rate of farm, such that I will have finished Radiance at the same time as I would have had I built cheaper items first, except I have better kill involvement and more xp doing the latter.
Before Radiance was buffed again it was common to run Drum Diffusal builds. After it was buffed people just assumed Radiance was superior again. Radiance is wonderful on Spectre, but in this meta being able to fight earlier, and more importantly, more frequently, makes Radiance not as desirable of a pick-up. Furthermore, the addition of more items which provide magic resistance or greater utility attached to them helps the enemy withstand the magic damage barrage of Radiance during its peak timing, such that the item isn't as potent. Evasion miss chance makes Radiance far better then you think, and also being able to hit R and disable people's blinks instantly is kind of a huge deal, especially since the Radiance burn lingers a little bit after the image disappears. It's not as cut and dry as you believe. The enemy has a non-negligible window of opportunity to blink to safety after you ult-- Radiance does NOT instantly put blinks on cd. Don't get me wrong, I love Radiance on Spectre-- it's just been my experience that in most games you don't actually get a good trade for Radiance. That is to say, that the opportunity cost of not being as strong as possible during early and midgame fights when your ult is up, that the loss in space resulting in the slowing of farm rate, and most importantly, the loss (if temporarily) in your team's morale and confidence level as you achieve less and less each ult or ult less often, however it works out, tends to outweigh the benefits of Radiance over the course of the entire game. Furthermore my previous point was from a super-lategame perspective that there isn't even a real incentive to feel a need for Radiance, since it's not part of her flawless-6slot. So then the question is do you need the farmrate acceleration Radiance provides over a specific timing window to allow Spectre to keep up on net worth, hit specific item timings, and ultimately maintain competitive dps and survivability relative to that of the enemy over the course of the game. I suspect the answer is that you do not, but I have not personally tried very hard to explore strictly Radiance-free item progressions, so I don't have the empirical data to say one way or the other. I simply found much more success on the hero by not trying to rush Radiance first. This seems to match how Spectre popularly is being run now, albeit through a different item progression than mine. However the trend does seem to suggest Spectres will go back to Radianceless builds as they did prior to the buff, as I mentioned before.
There are alot of situations where Radiance is SUPER good though. If you're playing against a lot of low mobility/squishy supports Radiance is like a free win as soon as you hit R. Radiance is less good against tanky line-ups that can sustain in fights and outfight your team (i.e. lots of tanky heroes like Tide/Jakiro/etc. who can stand and fight or kill off illusions quickly). The amount of AoE damage you put out with Radiance is pretty crazy; now obviously if you have a few scary heroes that you need to burst down/kill quickly, Diffusal/Manta def is the better build.
|
SoCal8910 Posts
I don't think he's saying it's bad, but that the opportunity cost is bad bc it takes forever to come online...but that's only true if you're rushing it.
|
I love how one year ago, people would have lost their minds if someone was going for radi after minute 30. I can still see the "useless" spam.
Now it's perfectly fine, though.
|
rushing to items (like brown boots only) that give no stats like Radiance, Battlefury and Mjolnir is almost always bad. they all have something in common too... farm oriented items.
getting the value stat efficient items like Aquila, wand, drums, treads, urn, etc. and then those items is the right play.
even AM, the hero that you would likely want to "rush" a BF as soon as possible should still get at least treads first for the most part.
|
On March 23 2016 03:08 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2016 02:47 Karpfen wrote:On March 22 2016 20:25 superstartran wrote:On March 21 2016 02:35 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Radiance is a pretty weak lategame item; once you start optimizing your 6slot Radiance is the first thing to go. If it's not your first or maybe second major item, don't build it at all. If you're getting your shit pushed in and need waveclear, Mjollnir or Battlefury will serve you better.
Before the drum resurgence I was a strong advocate of not rushing Relic ever. I always found that if I tried to go straight Radiance that by the time I actually picked up the Relic even with fantastic farm that I didn't have the space to finish Radiance at the same rate of farm, such that I will have finished Radiance at the same time as I would have had I built cheaper items first, except I have better kill involvement and more xp doing the latter.
Before Radiance was buffed again it was common to run Drum Diffusal builds. After it was buffed people just assumed Radiance was superior again. Radiance is wonderful on Spectre, but in this meta being able to fight earlier, and more importantly, more frequently, makes Radiance not as desirable of a pick-up. Furthermore, the addition of more items which provide magic resistance or greater utility attached to them helps theDry withstand the magic damage barrage of Radiance during its peak timing, such that the item isn't as potent. Evasion miss chance makes Radiance far better then you think, and also being able to hit R and disable people's blinks instantly is kind of a huge deal, especially since the Radiance burn lingers a little bit after the image disappears. It's not as cut and dry as you believe. He was probably using the term "late game" assuming mkb's would pop up by that time. Radiance is indeed not a must on the hero although it's still a good item and manta diffusal is not the best choice in every situation (it's still a good choice in every situation). Even when going radiance, I think that not abusing spectre's post-6 early game is really a waste. The hero is just a bad laner, not a bad early gamer. Urn->Drums should be gotten almost every time even when going radiance because of the insane killing potential you have with those items. In games where killing is hard, it is better to go for a more farming orientated build with a morbid mask and maybe even pt and no urn and maybe even no drums. Hood seems good vs really really magic damage heavy lineups. AC should be gotten almost every time in the late game and surely over butterfly (badman goes for butterfly but I think he's wrong on that one). That item is so good with dispersion and haunt illusions carry the aura too so it's still a small benefit for them. I have a decently sized preference for skadi over HoT on the hero because it helps illusions way more and is also insane during chases plus it's ehp vs physical damage are very similar to those provided by heart.However, Heart's regen is pretty nice on spectre because she's a hero that can disengage pretty handily. Skipping poor man shield on Spectre is a sin by the way. That item is so good with her because you can disperse blocked damage since the last dispersion change. Against Broodmother your aim should be to reach vanguard because the spiders not only won't do you any damage but if the brood player is stubborn you can actually destroy them superquickly with dispersion. I have had a couple of games at 5.5k+ (I dropped quite a bit since this summer) in which I had something insane like 200cs at 16min by just staying in lane vs careless broodmothers. You definitely don't need a morbid mask to farm with spec. Lifesteal isn't actually that desirable for jungle farm bc you can spend 900g on something that will contribute to your farm speed and ferry out salves so you can heal before haunting to a fight (assuming you don't just base and use haunt to kill and get back on the map). AC does not benefit your haunt illusions the same way that bfly does. Coupled with haunt or manta, you can kill a lonely support with just illusions. Definitely not an every game item and I'm not sure id pick it up in even 1/10 of my games on her. Manta might be the only item I advocate 9/10 if not all games bc the desolate dmg is insane on solo targets. It gives her everything an illu hero wants too.
If you can't look for kills for some reason then there is literally no way that you're gonna get less than 450g on salves while maintaining the same pace/risk as morbid mask. Keep in mind you should sell morbid mask when you're 450g away from radiance recipe. It's not "needed" but it's worth it if you're going for a radi build and you don't have many ways to kill (which is really not many games lol).
You can probably kill supports anyway regardless yet AC for the hero itself >>> butterfly.
|
you don't get dispersion procs off evaded attacks right?
i would much prefer the 900g item over hogging courier and salves.
there are still quite a few camps where you can mess up AI by cutting certain trees and making a funnel so only one or two of the creeps can attack you at a time. like the middle medium camp dire, and the two hard-camps radiant.
|
I'd like to add that radiance is also extremely good in team fights, as you're
1.) dealing the burn magic damage to everyone on the enemy team regardless of positioning
2.) Causing them to miss attacks on your allies as well.
Imo this doesn't change the basic equation - that radiance frequently isn't worth it - but it's something to consider.
|
On March 26 2016 02:31 nanaoei wrote:
you don't get dispersion procs off evaded attacks right?
i would much prefer the 900g item over hogging courier and salves.
there are still quite a few camps where you can mess up AI by cutting certain trees and making a funnel so only one or two of the creeps can attack you at a time. like the middle medium camp dire, and the two hard-camps radiant.
You do not.
|
On March 25 2016 08:00 Murlox wrote:
I love how one year ago, people would have lost their minds if someone was going for radi after minute 30. I can still see the "useless" spam.
Now it's perfectly fine, though.
Its still bad after 25 minutes. Obviously you'd love to get it before 20 minutes, about 16-17 minutes would be the best, but if you are tanking up a bit first then getting it by 20 minutes is still fine. Even if you are late at about 25-26 minutes is still okay as the farm ability you gain with it allows you to be able to catch up, but over 30 minutes its on the weak side.
I means sure, if your team is bad and the enemy spectre gets 30 minute radiance, you can still easily lose, but generally speaking you should be able to win, otherwise its just your own team fault, nothing to do with spectre and getting radiance.
I've seen something like 15 minute radiance as well, but that is pretty terrible, people going boots, PMS into radiance, it makes spectre so easy to kill. Any decent ganking mid or a roaming support should be able to set up and/or get kills on her easily.
That said the rubberband is still way too strong and allows spectre to come back from absurd amount of deficit. One won team fight where you stay alive and participate in all the kills and you can easily get something like 3000+ gold and 3000+ experience just from 1 team fight.
On March 26 2016 05:12 Frogstomp wrote:
I'd like to add that radiance is also extremely good in team fights, as you're
2.) Causing them to miss attacks on your allies as well.
Imo this doesn't change the basic equation - that radiance frequently isn't worth it - but it's something to consider.
Ah, you understand that is not how radiance works right? The evasion aspect only works for the radiance carrier, you only miss against spectre, it doesn't cause you to permanently miss 17% against all heroes.
Radiance is always good as long as you can get it up till 25-26 minutes, even a later radiance like that is still useful, the damage burn is still quite good, at level 16 that is 350 magic damage burn to all enemy heroes, plus disabling blink daggers.
|
When active, scorches nearby enemies for 50 damage per second and blinds them, causing them to miss 17% of their attacks.
Source
|
yep ^
radiance burn causes people to miss, not give you evasion.
|
SoCal8910 Posts
On March 25 2016 21:34 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2016 03:08 BluemoonSC wrote:On March 23 2016 02:47 Karpfen wrote:On March 22 2016 20:25 superstartran wrote:On March 21 2016 02:35 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Radiance is a pretty weak lategame item; once you start optimizing your 6slot Radiance is the first thing to go. If it's not your first or maybe second major item, don't build it at all. If you're getting your shit pushed in and need waveclear, Mjollnir or Battlefury will serve you better.
Before the drum resurgence I was a strong advocate of not rushing Relic ever. I always found that if I tried to go straight Radiance that by the time I actually picked up the Relic even with fantastic farm that I didn't have the space to finish Radiance at the same rate of farm, such that I will have finished Radiance at the same time as I would have had I built cheaper items first, except I have better kill involvement and more xp doing the latter.
Before Radiance was buffed again it was common to run Drum Diffusal builds. After it was buffed people just assumed Radiance was superior again. Radiance is wonderful on Spectre, but in this meta being able to fight earlier, and more importantly, more frequently, makes Radiance not as desirable of a pick-up. Furthermore, the addition of more items which provide magic resistance or greater utility attached to them helps theDry withstand the magic damage barrage of Radiance during its peak timing, such that the item isn't as potent. Evasion miss chance makes Radiance far better then you think, and also being able to hit R and disable people's blinks instantly is kind of a huge deal, especially since the Radiance burn lingers a little bit after the image disappears. It's not as cut and dry as you believe. He was probably using the term "late game" assuming mkb's would pop up by that time. Radiance is indeed not a must on the hero although it's still a good item and manta diffusal is not the best choice in every situation (it's still a good choice in every situation). Even when going radiance, I think that not abusing spectre's post-6 early game is really a waste. The hero is just a bad laner, not a bad early gamer. Urn->Drums should be gotten almost every time even when going radiance because of the insane killing potential you have with those items. In games where killing is hard, it is better to go for a more farming orientated build with a morbid mask and maybe even pt and no urn and maybe even no drums. Hood seems good vs really really magic damage heavy lineups. AC should be gotten almost every time in the late game and surely over butterfly (badman goes for butterfly but I think he's wrong on that one). That item is so good with dispersion and haunt illusions carry the aura too so it's still a small benefit for them. I have a decently sized preference for skadi over HoT on the hero because it helps illusions way more and is also insane during chases plus it's ehp vs physical damage are very similar to those provided by heart.However, Heart's regen is pretty nice on spectre because she's a hero that can disengage pretty handily. Skipping poor man shield on Spectre is a sin by the way. That item is so good with her because you can disperse blocked damage since the last dispersion change. Against Broodmother your aim should be to reach vanguard because the spiders not only won't do you any damage but if the brood player is stubborn you can actually destroy them superquickly with dispersion. I have had a couple of games at 5.5k+ (I dropped quite a bit since this summer) in which I had something insane like 200cs at 16min by just staying in lane vs careless broodmothers. You definitely don't need a morbid mask to farm with spec. Lifesteal isn't actually that desirable for jungle farm bc you can spend 900g on something that will contribute to your farm speed and ferry out salves so you can heal before haunting to a fight (assuming you don't just base and use haunt to kill and get back on the map). AC does not benefit your haunt illusions the same way that bfly does. Coupled with haunt or manta, you can kill a lonely support with just illusions. Definitely not an every game item and I'm not sure id pick it up in even 1/10 of my games on her. Manta might be the only item I advocate 9/10 if not all games bc the desolate dmg is insane on solo targets. It gives her everything an illu hero wants too. If you can't look for kills for some reason then there is literally no way that you're gonna get less than 450g on salves while maintaining the same pace/risk as morbid mask. Keep in mind you should sell morbid mask when you're 450g away from radiance recipe. It's not "needed" but it's worth it if you're going for a radi build and you don't have many ways to kill (which is really not many games lol). You can probably kill supports anyway regardless yet AC for the hero itself >>> butterfly.
If you're having that much difficulty farming to the point where you're jungling, you almost definitely should be picking up an roh and working towards a vanguard instead of spending 900g on an item that builds towards nothing the hero wants. Even if you plan on selling it, 450 early game gold is a lot of money to forfeit especially if you're having a hard time.
|
On March 26 2016 20:23 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 21:34 Karpfen wrote:On March 23 2016 03:08 BluemoonSC wrote:On March 23 2016 02:47 Karpfen wrote:On March 22 2016 20:25 superstartran wrote:On March 21 2016 02:35 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Radiance is a pretty weak lategame item; once you start optimizing your 6slot Radiance is the first thing to go. If it's not your first or maybe second major item, don't build it at all. If you're getting your shit pushed in and need waveclear, Mjollnir or Battlefury will serve you better.
Before the drum resurgence I was a strong advocate of not rushing Relic ever. I always found that if I tried to go straight Radiance that by the time I actually picked up the Relic even with fantastic farm that I didn't have the space to finish Radiance at the same rate of farm, such that I will have finished Radiance at the same time as I would have had I built cheaper items first, except I have better kill involvement and more xp doing the latter.
Before Radiance was buffed again it was common to run Drum Diffusal builds. After it was buffed people just assumed Radiance was superior again. Radiance is wonderful on Spectre, but in this meta being able to fight earlier, and more importantly, more frequently, makes Radiance not as desirable of a pick-up. Furthermore, the addition of more items which provide magic resistance or greater utility attached to them helps theDry withstand the magic damage barrage of Radiance during its peak timing, such that the item isn't as potent. Evasion miss chance makes Radiance far better then you think, and also being able to hit R and disable people's blinks instantly is kind of a huge deal, especially since the Radiance burn lingers a little bit after the image disappears. It's not as cut and dry as you believe. He was probably using the term "late game" assuming mkb's would pop up by that time. Radiance is indeed not a must on the hero although it's still a good item and manta diffusal is not the best choice in every situation (it's still a good choice in every situation). Even when going radiance, I think that not abusing spectre's post-6 early game is really a waste. The hero is just a bad laner, not a bad early gamer. Urn->Drums should be gotten almost every time even when going radiance because of the insane killing potential you have with those items. In games where killing is hard, it is better to go for a more farming orientated build with a morbid mask and maybe even pt and no urn and maybe even no drums. Hood seems good vs really really magic damage heavy lineups. AC should be gotten almost every time in the late game and surely over butterfly (badman goes for butterfly but I think he's wrong on that one). That item is so good with dispersion and haunt illusions carry the aura too so it's still a small benefit for them. I have a decently sized preference for skadi over HoT on the hero because it helps illusions way more and is also insane during chases plus it's ehp vs physical damage are very similar to those provided by heart.However, Heart's regen is pretty nice on spectre because she's a hero that can disengage pretty handily. Skipping poor man shield on Spectre is a sin by the way. That item is so good with her because you can disperse blocked damage since the last dispersion change. Against Broodmother your aim should be to reach vanguard because the spiders not only won't do you any damage but if the brood player is stubborn you can actually destroy them superquickly with dispersion. I have had a couple of games at 5.5k+ (I dropped quite a bit since this summer) in which I had something insane like 200cs at 16min by just staying in lane vs careless broodmothers. You definitely don't need a morbid mask to farm with spec. Lifesteal isn't actually that desirable for jungle farm bc you can spend 900g on something that will contribute to your farm speed and ferry out salves so you can heal before haunting to a fight (assuming you don't just base and use haunt to kill and get back on the map). AC does not benefit your haunt illusions the same way that bfly does. Coupled with haunt or manta, you can kill a lonely support with just illusions. Definitely not an every game item and I'm not sure id pick it up in even 1/10 of my games on her. Manta might be the only item I advocate 9/10 if not all games bc the desolate dmg is insane on solo targets. It gives her everything an illu hero wants too. If you can't look for kills for some reason then there is literally no way that you're gonna get less than 450g on salves while maintaining the same pace/risk as morbid mask. Keep in mind you should sell morbid mask when you're 450g away from radiance recipe. It's not "needed" but it's worth it if you're going for a radi build and you don't have many ways to kill (which is really not many games lol). You can probably kill supports anyway regardless yet AC for the hero itself >>> butterfly. If you're having that much difficulty farming to the point where you're jungling, you almost definitely should be picking up an roh and working towards a vanguard instead of spending 900g on an item that builds towards nothing the hero wants. Even if you plan on selling it, 450 early game gold is a lot of money to forfeit especially if you're having a hard time.
It was more like having difficulties killing people because you have weird low dmg things vs tanky stuff. But I've already written that.
|
SoCal8910 Posts
On March 27 2016 10:41 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2016 20:23 BluemoonSC wrote:On March 25 2016 21:34 Karpfen wrote:On March 23 2016 03:08 BluemoonSC wrote:On March 23 2016 02:47 Karpfen wrote:On March 22 2016 20:25 superstartran wrote:On March 21 2016 02:35 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Radiance is a pretty weak lategame item; once you start optimizing your 6slot Radiance is the first thing to go. If it's not your first or maybe second major item, don't build it at all. If you're getting your shit pushed in and need waveclear, Mjollnir or Battlefury will serve you better.
Before the drum resurgence I was a strong advocate of not rushing Relic ever. I always found that if I tried to go straight Radiance that by the time I actually picked up the Relic even with fantastic farm that I didn't have the space to finish Radiance at the same rate of farm, such that I will have finished Radiance at the same time as I would have had I built cheaper items first, except I have better kill involvement and more xp doing the latter.
Before Radiance was buffed again it was common to run Drum Diffusal builds. After it was buffed people just assumed Radiance was superior again. Radiance is wonderful on Spectre, but in this meta being able to fight earlier, and more importantly, more frequently, makes Radiance not as desirable of a pick-up. Furthermore, the addition of more items which provide magic resistance or greater utility attached to them helps theDry withstand the magic damage barrage of Radiance during its peak timing, such that the item isn't as potent. Evasion miss chance makes Radiance far better then you think, and also being able to hit R and disable people's blinks instantly is kind of a huge deal, especially since the Radiance burn lingers a little bit after the image disappears. It's not as cut and dry as you believe. He was probably using the term "late game" assuming mkb's would pop up by that time. Radiance is indeed not a must on the hero although it's still a good item and manta diffusal is not the best choice in every situation (it's still a good choice in every situation). Even when going radiance, I think that not abusing spectre's post-6 early game is really a waste. The hero is just a bad laner, not a bad early gamer. Urn->Drums should be gotten almost every time even when going radiance because of the insane killing potential you have with those items. In games where killing is hard, it is better to go for a more farming orientated build with a morbid mask and maybe even pt and no urn and maybe even no drums. Hood seems good vs really really magic damage heavy lineups. AC should be gotten almost every time in the late game and surely over butterfly (badman goes for butterfly but I think he's wrong on that one). That item is so good with dispersion and haunt illusions carry the aura too so it's still a small benefit for them. I have a decently sized preference for skadi over HoT on the hero because it helps illusions way more and is also insane during chases plus it's ehp vs physical damage are very similar to those provided by heart.However, Heart's regen is pretty nice on spectre because she's a hero that can disengage pretty handily. Skipping poor man shield on Spectre is a sin by the way. That item is so good with her because you can disperse blocked damage since the last dispersion change. Against Broodmother your aim should be to reach vanguard because the spiders not only won't do you any damage but if the brood player is stubborn you can actually destroy them superquickly with dispersion. I have had a couple of games at 5.5k+ (I dropped quite a bit since this summer) in which I had something insane like 200cs at 16min by just staying in lane vs careless broodmothers. You definitely don't need a morbid mask to farm with spec. Lifesteal isn't actually that desirable for jungle farm bc you can spend 900g on something that will contribute to your farm speed and ferry out salves so you can heal before haunting to a fight (assuming you don't just base and use haunt to kill and get back on the map). AC does not benefit your haunt illusions the same way that bfly does. Coupled with haunt or manta, you can kill a lonely support with just illusions. Definitely not an every game item and I'm not sure id pick it up in even 1/10 of my games on her. Manta might be the only item I advocate 9/10 if not all games bc the desolate dmg is insane on solo targets. It gives her everything an illu hero wants too. If you can't look for kills for some reason then there is literally no way that you're gonna get less than 450g on salves while maintaining the same pace/risk as morbid mask. Keep in mind you should sell morbid mask when you're 450g away from radiance recipe. It's not "needed" but it's worth it if you're going for a radi build and you don't have many ways to kill (which is really not many games lol). You can probably kill supports anyway regardless yet AC for the hero itself >>> butterfly. If you're having that much difficulty farming to the point where you're jungling, you almost definitely should be picking up an roh and working towards a vanguard instead of spending 900g on an item that builds towards nothing the hero wants. Even if you plan on selling it, 450 early game gold is a lot of money to forfeit especially if you're having a hard time. It was more like having difficulties killing people because you have weird low dmg things vs tanky stuff. But I've already written that.
So I'm still not sure how morbid mask helps.
|
I'm not necessarily advocating it, but the build Arteezy was using on his stream right before the Dispersion buff was wand treads morbid mask Radiance with 2-2-1 into 2-2-4-1 skill build. When I tried it myself I was consistently getting 18-19 minute Radiance. For the most part it didn't feel like I was giving up much kill potential-- I was still fighting at least every ult cd. Some kills weren't obtainable without the chase capacity of phase + better levels in Dagger, but some kills were only obtainable thanks to the tower-diving potential of high hp + maxed Dispersion, so it evened out. You could probably slip an orb of venom in there too if you wanted.
The morbid mask + high dispersion levels + pms meant you were always 100% hp and 100% mana in the jungle. There was no reason to use Dagger for farming because it was low level and because you substituted higher Dispersion damage as aoe farming damage prior to Radiance. I never tried the same thing with just a Ring of Health, but I don't think the latter out-competes Morbid Mask. Within this build it's more efficient than Urn or buying extra regen and allows you to relatively comfortably skip other small items. So it's not morbid mask + urn/aquila/drums or whatever else you're buying early, it's just the morbid mask + pms (the latter of which you should already have). So it's not a lot of extra money if you're having a hard time. Of course I wouldn't recommend the morbid mask outside of this specific build (and whatever slight variations you choose to throw in).
The build got stronger when they buffed Dispersion. I don't use it myself anymore because I feel more comfortable with the item progression of my normal build, but I didn't notice any change in winrate. I'm sure there are some lineups it's a good choice against as opposed to the more popular chasing builds, but I don't necessarily know when that is the case. Might be good vs a lineup with high burst + strong escape potential if your lineup can't hold them in place over the window where you're trying to farm Radiance.
|
SoCal8910 Posts
Let's not ignore the most important part of the conversation - dispersion has been changed. Youre no longer reflecting pure dmg after reductions (so the more dmg you take, the more you can rice)..instead you're reflecting physical dmg, which can be reduced by the armor of jungle creeps.
This completely changes your needs as a farmer bc its slower than it was before (if you're relying on dispersion) if I'm not mistaken.
|
It's really the difference between spec's armour and the creeps' armour. Damage block also interacts favourably now, which is a big deal.
Generally, spec's armour is high enough that the new dispersion comes out ahead on damage, especially with PMS.
Someone should math it if they're keen, but I'm pretty sure the new dispersion is better, not worse, unless you're like lv5 with brown boots, a stick and no stout.
That said, I still don't think dispersion max is the build, since it really gimps your access to that sweet, sweet comeback gold.
|
If your armor > others armor new dispersion > old dispersion. With shields it's even better ofc.
|
Envy has been going phase urn drums into radiance a lot lately. Which works pretty well, since you get the gold from early kills and can participate, but still keep a decent farming rate once the game slows down.
Timing is somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes (latest I've seen him get it is 27 mins), depending on the game.
What do I build if i need to manfight good manfight-heroes? Played this game vs OD, sven and wl and their sups were visage and aa. Killed aa early in the fights, often visage as well and then I'm stranded. WL isnt a worthwile target once he gets golems out and while I can kite the sven, I can't really manfight him nor the od either after he got bkb, unless I go bkb myself or have a lot more farm. Got abyssal, which meant that we fought relatively even, but od kills my backline as fast as I kill his.
In hindsight probably should have gotten a bkb, but bkb is so bad vs everything they have except for od (and aa, but aa was a non-factor).
Normally I would have gotten bfly, but with atos in the game...
We played super shaky and might have won this, if it wasn't for some throws ("we didn't initiate, we got initiated on" right in front their t3s...).
Match id is 2249066881.
|
I didn't watch replay.
Your lasthits are pretty low, and I can only assume you were losing gold every death or bought back a few times, because you do have a lot of kills but still no farm. Not being 6slotted an hour in is pretty rough-- you aren't going to outcompete two hard carries with 3 items.
With no Radiance or Diffusal there's no special strength to your ult-- but that also means you don't really need to save it for a fight. That means you should be looking to try and pick the Warlock solo using your ult when he's vulnerable-- then your team should easily win a teamfight if they allow it 4v5, and if they hide you get a free objective and/or complete map control-- which lets you get better wards up, push in all three lanes, secure both jungles, and get Rosh if possible.
Your team lacking a pipe hurt a lot, but you don't necessarily control that.
You may have needed MKB over Abyssal (or have both ideally) because of that Solar Crest, but you did say you were blowing the Visage up pretty quickly so that may not have mattered.
I dunno if you had Diffusal early on and sold it, but having one is pretty good vs the Sven. That item can completely nullify him in a fight before he has BKB or after his BKB has ended. An hour in I'm sure he was on 5s charge, which meant since he had no blink a Diffusal would absolutely have helped control him in fights.
Don't disregard Warlock after he ults-- stopping him from slowing everything is important in letting you engage and disengage appropriately.
They had a lot of magic/pure damage-- I'm not sure why you think BKB was bad there. BKB literally protects you from at least one aspect of every single hero on their team. Since OD was clearly the bigger problem than Sven you probably would have been fine going BKB after Manta rather than Skadi. Without watching the game I don't fully understand your item progression or choices though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
