EPTI wouldn't recommend mid spectre very often, but vs a melee mid, I see no reason she can't stand toe to toe.
except vs brew master, fuck that lane.
[Hero] Spectre - Page 17
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
I wouldn't recommend mid spectre very often, but vs a melee mid, I see no reason she can't stand toe to toe. except vs brew master, fuck that lane. | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
On February 06 2015 11:57 Erasme wrote: noone is asking you to tank the hook... you just fight in your creeps and win Exactly. Problem though is that even if you won against Pudge, when he gets his levels you are still afraid of him. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 06 2015 23:54 BluemoonSC wrote: desolate is a strong spell. I wouldn't recommend mid spectre very often, but vs a melee mid, I see no reason she can't stand toe to toe. except vs brew master, fuck that lane. Uh, she can't stand toe to toe against many melee heroes. Her base damage sucks for last hitting, she doesn't have harassment tool, nor reliable escape and isn't tanky enough. We don't have many melee heroes played currently on mid, but some of them that comes to mind are: -Brewmaster -Ember Spirit -Axe -Troll(kind of) -Slark -Bristleback -Tidehunter -Beastmaster -Magnus -Dragon Knight and the list goes on. I am aware that we are not seeing all of these heroes often on mid(some are pretty rare) but all of them will just force Spectre out of lane since level 2-3. All of them have better nukes and/or sustain on the lane than Spectre and she will get harassed, outleveled and outfarmed. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 07 2015 06:33 Logo wrote: TA, PA, Lycan are also run mid, though I don't think Spectre would fare better against any of them either. Indeed, although TA isn't really a melee hero, especially not with Psi blades lol. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6228 Posts
Even so, considering that even with a support 100% devoted to her lane, spec still has no kill potential, no rune control and pretty average lasthitting, I can't see too many reasons you would want to do that. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
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Jct0064
40 Posts
I think that picking up the first haunt kills is my main weakness. I need to use that be a threat earlier, even before the rad. I have had a pretty good time with the hero so I wasn't really worried about a quick fix, I was just wondering if I was winning because the other team was really bad and not because I was doing anything good, I think I'm 8/9 so far. What I have been doing is rushing the rad and then manta to control lane pressure and teamfights. I don't know when it is better to use haunt to gank instead of a full teamfight (besides pre-rad). It seems too strong of an ult to use on one or two people. My build is a little weird too, I take skadi and satanic instead of heart diffusal. The morbid mask gives me early regen, and I like the combo better since I teamfight and pressure lanes instead of ganking. I probably need to not suck at ganking, but the lane pressure and teamfight has worked pretty well so far. Feedback is welcome though. I try to slowly crush them, one fight+tower at a time. If I don't make stupid mistakes then I think I could end by 45 usually assuming the enemy is decent. But my last game I made some bad mistakes and it went late. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/97351668/matches?date=&faction=&hero=spectre&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration= I guess from the lack of interest in duel mid that it doesn't work against competent players haha. But I am in the trench so I might try it. *bonus story from the trench: the other day I played a game with three solo lanes. Techies and a jungler makes the lanes hard. I had a good time, but the other lanes got pretty hurt. A veno managed to carry. It makes me sad; he was just feeding me souls (SF) with his plague wards and then he started rotating constantly and the other lanes got destroyed. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
I don't really agree with Satanic. Beauty of Spectre is that she is dealing a lot of damage even when she is kited and focused because of dispersion and haunt. You are not an auto-attack carry, your carry potential doesn't come from your attack damage so Satanic feels like wasted 5k+ gold. It is also so easy to kite melee carries or to CC them when they pop up Satanic, but it can be good if they have a lot of heroes that want to man up and fight with you. And outside of fights when you are pushing or farming, Heart gives you enough sustain is doing more work in teamfights than Satanic if you aren't really able to hit much(I mean even if you are, Spectre's base damage and attack speed are shit compared to other agi heroes). So in your place I would choose between Skadi and Heart and I think that there is no reason to get both. I still prefer Refresher build though, just try it in one game where they won't just group up and push or don't have AoE heal team, and when you manage to make quick Radiance(~18 minutes). | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On February 08 2015 11:45 Ramiz1989 wrote: Skadi is ok, Heart isn't mandatory(just most of the pros get it for some reason even though in certain situations other items are a lot better) but it is still good. Diffusal is arguable, I almost always get it because it adds quite a bit of damage to your ultimate and your auto-attacks(even though mana break is nerfed now to 25, agi is buffed to 35), and purge is always good. In these kind of games that are long enough, you can always use purge for something, not just slow on enemy hero but for dispelling stuff like Orchid/Hex etc. I don't really agree with Satanic. Beauty of Spectre is that she is dealing a lot of damage even when she is kited and focused because of dispersion and haunt. You are not an auto-attack carry, your carry potential doesn't come from your attack damage so Satanic feels like wasted 5k+ gold. It is also so easy to kite melee carries or to CC them when they pop up Satanic, but it can be good if they have a lot of heroes that want to man up and fight with you. And outside of fights when you are pushing or farming, Heart gives you enough sustain is doing more work in teamfights than Satanic if you aren't really able to hit much(I mean even if you are, Spectre's base damage and attack speed are shit compared to other agi heroes). So in your place I would choose between Skadi and Heart and I think that there is no reason to get both. I still prefer Refresher build though, just try it in one game where they won't just group up and push or don't have AoE heal team, and when you manage to make quick Radiance(~18 minutes). Thing with Satanic is that spectre actually has instant gapcloser and with abyssal you have no problems locking someone down, do 2 hits and get more HP in total than you would get from heart. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
For example, Heart entirely changes how you commit resources to dealing with split-pushing heroes because you can't just send one hero to deal with them if they can trade you down to low HP, back up, and wait for Heart regen. You either have to commit to ganking them, or move your entire team to handle them because of the ability to abuse their regen advantage between waves, or to start a fight when they've regen-ed to full with Heart while the hero sent to stop them hasn't had time to heal yet. If you're purely looking for a fighting item, Satanic is better, but on heroes that can make use of the abuse cases for Heart regen, it gets enough out of them to be well worth it (and Spectre is definitely such a hero with a global ultimate that can force a fight to happen more or less when she wants). If you only view Heart regen passively as pre-fight/post-fight regen then it seems underwhelming, but the item allows you to actively create situations where the regen is bothersome for the enemy team to play around. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On February 08 2015 18:11 TheYango wrote: Satanic's pretty much always stronger for pure man-fighting stats on any hero, but Heart fundamentally changes how the enemy team has to deal with you because of the ways you can abuse Heart regen against heroes who can't keep up with it. For example, Heart entirely changes how you commit resources to dealing with split-pushing heroes because you can't just send one hero to deal with them if they can trade you down to low HP, back up, and wait for Heart regen. You either have to commit to ganking them, or move your entire team to handle them because of the ability to abuse their regen advantage between waves, or to start a fight when they've regen-ed to full with Heart while the hero sent to stop them hasn't had time to heal yet. If you're purely looking for a fighting item, Satanic is better, but on heroes that can make use of the abuse cases for Heart regen, it gets enough out of them to be well worth it (and Spectre is definitely such a hero with a global ultimate that can force a fight to happen more or less when she wants). If you only view Heart regen passively as pre-fight/post-fight regen then it seems underwhelming, but the item allows you to actively create situations where the regen is bothersome for the enemy team to play around. I mean, the problem with heart on spectre is that if you commit to fight, you ain't really getting out of it for extended periods of time for heart regen to kick in, haunt only lasts so long. And if you don't commit, then heart regen is wasted. But i suppose heart could be good for re-engaging if spectre is with the team and manages to get away from first fight, regen some and re-engage with haunt. I honestly have problems imagining the cases when heart regen starts kicking in actively outside of rare cases when you manage to juke around until heart kicks in and this way turn situation around. Spectre is probably the only hero who can juke with such ease tho due to dagger. | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
I agree with lolfail I don't really see many situations where Spectre will be able to disengage, regen w/ Heart and re-engage into a team fight. He doesn't have a Blink like AM. Any of out of combat regen you need like vs. failed ganks on you is taken care of by Urn which I am a big fan of. Personally I like Skadi + RFO on a 6 slot Spectre. The slow makes burning down fleeing targets much faster and the extra mana pool lets you get off your full double Haunt-Dagger-Manta combo. Pick off all the squishy supports with Haunt and then isolate and burn down the carry with your team. | ||
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mooo
United States9 Posts
On February 09 2015 05:09 Skyro wrote: Spectre isn't really a manfighting hero though, you use Haunt to pick the fights you can win and both Dispersion and Desolate are both blocked by BKB. Satanic seems like a fairly situational buy. I agree with lolfail I don't really see many situations where Spectre will be able to disengage, regen w/ Heart and re-engage into a team fight. He doesn't have a Blink like AM. Any of out of combat regen you need like vs. failed ganks on you is taken care of by Urn which I am a big fan of. Personally I like Skadi + RFO on a 6 slot Spectre. The slow makes burning down fleeing targets much faster and the extra mana pool lets you get off your full double Haunt-Dagger-Manta combo. Pick off all the squishy supports with Haunt and then isolate and burn down the carry with your team. Dispersion and desolate are both pure dmg and not blocked by BKB? but RFO seems like a must when 6slotted. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
some spells do pure damage through bkb (doom, midnight pulse etc...) some spells do pure damage but not through bkb (desolate, dispersion, laser etc...) | ||
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BillGates
471 Posts
On February 11 2015 01:44 mooo wrote: Dispersion and desolate are both pure dmg and not blocked by BKB? but RFO seems like a must when 6slotted. Both are blocked by BKB. She is a very weak hero against BKB. | ||
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MirageTaN
Singapore871 Posts
NO ARGUEMENT | ||
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Yarbleck
France233 Posts
It works with radiance... Radiance + octarine core spectre could be very hard to kill + lower CD on ulti + tankiness + the comeback of the 17% miss chance on radiance... Thoughts ? | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On April 28 2015 23:37 lolfail9001 wrote: Actually now that i think about it, 6.84 buff is really nice: now you can conviniently reality in early on, killsteal for yourself and reality back to farming. I won't even mention the hilariousity of spamming reality during haunt and jumping all over the map. Yeah, it is really good buff because most of the time it wasn't worth to jump and take a kill if you couldn't reality back to your lane. Now it is great. Radiance buff is also really nice as you are applying miss chance to the whole enemy team. I was also wondering how Octarian Core interacts with Radiance, Dispersion and Blade Mail and if those 4 combined would make you unkillable. I would like to test it.  | ||
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