On November 21 2011 15:50 Defury wrote: So I have been playing a bit and now I am curious about a few things/
1) Courier, what happens when 2 people want to use it at once?
2) Morphling. How do I know his default stats and when do I know its safe to morph into high agi? Do I always go high agi then hit str as soon as I get attacked? And after I do morph one or the other what do I do to get back to a normal stat.
3) are the suggested builds any good for a beginner?
1) Courier takes both of their commands. It's up to the two players to figure out who gets to use it first.
2) I'll leave this to a morphling player to answer better. You can see his default stats in the box on the lower left of the screen that shows all of his stats. You get it back to a normal stat by turning on the opposite morph that you used - if you morphed into agi, then once you're done and want to go back to normal you morph into str.
3) Uh. In general they're not a bad place to start. Certain heroes stick out in my mind (cm, lich, especially venge) as having their item set be kind of dumb. I think I remember seeing a butterfly or something like that on venge's recommended items.
Well his defaults actually change when you morph and don't show as bonus or at least that's how it looks.
On November 21 2011 15:50 Defury wrote: So I have been playing a bit and now I am curious about a few things/
1) Courier, what happens when 2 people want to use it at once?
2) Morphling. How do I know his default stats and when do I know its safe to morph into high agi? Do I always go high agi then hit str as soon as I get attacked? And after I do morph one or the other what do I do to get back to a normal stat.
3) are the suggested builds any good for a beginner?
1) Courier takes both of their commands. It's up to the two players to figure out who gets to use it first.
2) I'll leave this to a morphling player to answer better. You can see his default stats in the box on the lower left of the screen that shows all of his stats. You get it back to a normal stat by turning on the opposite morph that you used - if you morphed into agi, then once you're done and want to go back to normal you morph into str.
3) Uh. In general they're not a bad place to start. Certain heroes stick out in my mind (cm, lich, especially venge) as having their item set be kind of dumb. I think I remember seeing a butterfly or something like that on venge's recommended items.
Well his defaults actually change when you morph and don't show as bonus or at least that's how it looks.
Well, yeah. Why don't you just remember the default stats before you start morphing them, or if you can't remember them write them down if it's that important to go back to default stats (which it really isn't). More often, you just morph to whatever amount of health you think will keep you alive at any given time. I've got nothing more specific on what amount of health that is for you, though.
On November 21 2011 15:50 Defury wrote: So I have been playing a bit and now I am curious about a few things/
1) Courier, what happens when 2 people want to use it at once?
2) Morphling. How do I know his default stats and when do I know its safe to morph into high agi? Do I always go high agi then hit str as soon as I get attacked? And after I do morph one or the other what do I do to get back to a normal stat.
3) are the suggested builds any good for a beginner?
1) Courier takes both of their commands. It's up to the two players to figure out who gets to use it first.
2) I'll leave this to a morphling player to answer better. You can see his default stats in the box on the lower left of the screen that shows all of his stats. You get it back to a normal stat by turning on the opposite morph that you used - if you morphed into agi, then once you're done and want to go back to normal you morph into str.
3) Uh. In general they're not a bad place to start. Certain heroes stick out in my mind (cm, lich, especially venge) as having their item set be kind of dumb. I think I remember seeing a butterfly or something like that on venge's recommended items.
Well his defaults actually change when you morph and don't show as bonus or at least that's how it looks.
Well, yeah. Why don't you just remember the default stats before you start morphing them, or if you can't remember them write them down if it's that important to go back to default stats (which it really isn't). More often, you just morph to whatever amount of health you think will keep you alive at any given time. I've got nothing more specific on what amount of health that is for you, though.
Ah ok, thanks a ton for the info. Another question when the game gets to the point where we have killed 1 tower and have to cross the river to farm the creep line what then I have a bad habit of being terrified to cross the river, do I just cross and keep farming like usual?
On November 21 2011 15:50 Defury wrote: So I have been playing a bit and now I am curious about a few things/
1) Courier, what happens when 2 people want to use it at once?
2) Morphling. How do I know his default stats and when do I know its safe to morph into high agi? Do I always go high agi then hit str as soon as I get attacked? And after I do morph one or the other what do I do to get back to a normal stat.
3) are the suggested builds any good for a beginner?
1) Courier takes both of their commands. It's up to the two players to figure out who gets to use it first.
2) I'll leave this to a morphling player to answer better. You can see his default stats in the box on the lower left of the screen that shows all of his stats. You get it back to a normal stat by turning on the opposite morph that you used - if you morphed into agi, then once you're done and want to go back to normal you morph into str.
3) Uh. In general they're not a bad place to start. Certain heroes stick out in my mind (cm, lich, especially venge) as having their item set be kind of dumb. I think I remember seeing a butterfly or something like that on venge's recommended items.
Well his defaults actually change when you morph and don't show as bonus or at least that's how it looks.
Well, yeah. Why don't you just remember the default stats before you start morphing them, or if you can't remember them write them down if it's that important to go back to default stats (which it really isn't). More often, you just morph to whatever amount of health you think will keep you alive at any given time. I've got nothing more specific on what amount of health that is for you, though.
Ah ok, thanks a ton for the info. Another question when the game gets to the point where we have killed 1 tower and have to cross the river to farm the creep line what then I have a bad habit of being terrified to cross the river, do I just cross and keep farming like usual?
As a general rule, no. Unless you have a way of knowing when the enemies are going to gank you from the forrest next to you (ie you have wards up or someone on your team is farming there forrest) its probably a bad idea. If you do go here make sure you have a TP scroll so you can escape quickly, because unless the other team is retarded they will probably come gank you if you are "deep".
@defury - that's a pretty good way to get yourself super dead really fast. The real answer is static famig, you shouldn't 'have' to cross the river at all, unless you allies fuck everything up for you. Theres plenty of guides around, but in general it means for every hit you do on an enemy creep, do one on yours. If you're accidentally pushing, deny your creeps from 50% hp. It's an important carry skill.
On November 21 2011 19:09 lozarian wrote: @defury - that's a pretty good way to get yourself super dead really fast. The real answer is static famig, you shouldn't 'have' to cross the river at all, unless you allies fuck everything up for you. Theres plenty of guides around, but in general it means for every hit you do on an enemy creep, do one on yours. If you're accidentally pushing, deny your creeps from 50% hp. It's an important carry skill.
Well the issue is when their tower gets pushed and falls the creep line ends up moving up for some reason, Should I just deny creeps till it moves back down?
Watching streams the evil fire lava side HQ has an absurdly sick looking collapse exploding animation like war of the worlds when it gets killed, while the good side HQ just dissapears.
Is this just an unfinished animation or are they going to keep it like that?
I think it's just unfinished, I'd hope it is anyway - I've made a couple of posts asking about unfinished art - upheaval for example looks like utter ass.
If you find your lane pushing itself you're farmin wrong, if your intention is to farm hard - it will usually take. A couple of waves of hard denying to pull it back, so it's a a decision call as to what is thebest courseof action. Generally Id say if you're going. To end up past the river before it equalises, give the hell up on the wave, auto it a bit to push it faster, go to neuts and hope that when itswings back you're in a better position.
This all depends on your map control and vision, of course.
On November 21 2011 19:09 lozarian wrote: @defury - that's a pretty good way to get yourself super dead really fast. The real answer is static famig, you shouldn't 'have' to cross the river at all, unless you allies fuck everything up for you. Theres plenty of guides around, but in general it means for every hit you do on an enemy creep, do one on yours. If you're accidentally pushing, deny your creeps from 50% hp. It's an important carry skill.
Well the issue is when their tower gets pushed and falls the creep line ends up moving up for some reason, Should I just deny creeps till it moves back down?
Then you are just terrible at last hitting in terms of farming and denying. You literally can dictate where the creep waves will meet if you are just by yourself in a lane, go practice it in training mode.
Edit:
And no, it's not like what some people have said about "denying a couple waves to pull it back", whatever the fuck that means. You just deny like you normally would and really just focus on last hitting. You do not alternate waves of last hitting and denying, you are not pulling or pushing anything back or forward, if you are doing it right then the creep wave position should NOT move at all. If you know how to double tap creeps then it shouldn't be an issue other than getting use to doing it consistently. You can keep the meeting point of creepwaves static for a good 5 minutes with most heroes.
So out of all heroes so far, why is alchemist completely different from his war 3 version? His hotkeys aren't the same...his stun initiation makes him stop moving from casting, and it doesn't have the same buffer of time for you to release the stun as war 3. Was super comfortable with every hero till I randomed alchemist a few times. I remember in war 3 it was a intended fix to make sure that he didn't have to stop to start casting his stun.
Edit: Also his stun doesn't work on wr during windrun...maybe I should test but thought that spells still stunned wr during wr?
Judi- I mean that if you do fuck up your static, start attacking your own creeps from 50% and only go for the very last on the enemy creeps. Instead of being high and mighty, you could try to be helpful, rather than justtelling people that they're shit.
On November 22 2011 01:08 lozarian wrote: Judi- I mean that if you do fuck up your static, start attacking your own creeps from 50% and only go for the very last on the enemy creeps. Instead of being high and mighty, you could try to be helpful, rather than justtelling people that they're shit.
You realize if you fuck up your static and there are missing heroes, you already kicked your safe farm out of the window right? Unless you think you have 30+ seconds (more like a minute) to recover...in which case you are just speaking out of theory and poorly-crafted one at that.
It's not being high and mighty, it's me calling you out on something that you clearly haven't executed nor even put any more thought into the problem than some half-baked theorycrafting. That is me being helpful.
Edit:
This is a problem I see a lot at various forums regarding subtle things like this, half the people know what's going on but only partially understand the mechanics behind it. Then they go on the forums and express that half-understanding by perpetuating fallacies.
I fully agree - hence why I said "probably give the fuck up and go neuts and wait for another chance" and "if you find it pushing you're farming wrong"
I was trying to explain the mechanics of static farming, albeit badly because I was on my phone in the shitter at work, rather than just saying "because you suck at farming" - if the question is being asked, it clearly needs to be answered in more depth.
Similarly if, as is clearly the case, we are not talking about a particularly high level game, you probably DO have 30 seconds to try and get your equilibrium back to where you want it. What I was trying to say was:
if you're finding that you're slowly pushing forward, you're doing to much damage to the enemy creeps over your own creeps and hence need to overcompensate by starting the deny earlier than you normally would, to pull the wave back slightly. In theory static farming is easy, in practice you can see it going slightly wrong and, again "depending on map control and vision" try to compensate and bring it back.
On November 22 2011 02:45 lozarian wrote: I fully agree - hence why I said "probably give the fuck up and go neuts and wait for another chance" and "if you find it pushing you're farming wrong"
I was trying to explain the mechanics of static farming, albeit badly because I was on my phone in the shitter at work, rather than just saying "because you suck at farming" - if the question is being asked, it clearly needs to be answered in more depth.
Similarly if, as is clearly the case, we are not talking about a particularly high level game, you probably DO have 30 seconds to try and get your equilibrium back to where you want it. What I was trying to say was:
if you're finding that you're slowly pushing forward, you're doing to much damage to the enemy creeps over your own creeps and hence need to overcompensate by starting the deny earlier than you normally would, to pull the wave back slightly. In theory static farming is easy, in practice you can see it going slightly wrong and, again "depending on map control and vision" try to compensate and bring it back.
Fair enough, but posting half-way answers isn't helpful and actually detrimental to answering the question.
And you really don't have 30 seconds to correct anything when heroes are gone from the map. Don't use the not high level game excuse, it's a terrible way to pigeonhole yourself into the scrub category, learn to play the game properly and you'll avoid all the frustration of getting bodied by better players when you improve. Otherwise you're just capping your own development by throwing all these needlessly bad habits into your skill sets. Another phenomenon I see a lot and have experienced in DotA, confirmation bias is a bitch.
Edit:
Funnily enough, there's a very relevant blog post by Snuggles which highlights some of the things I was referring to. Here
Again - "dependant on vision and map control", obviously the ideal is to do everything right first time and never make a mistake, and one should never budget for doing anything else, because noticing that your creep wave has pushed slightly forward and then realising what will happen if you don't do the right thing there and then is a bad habit. I just spent 5 minutes in a game literally this second doing exactly that. Static farming, I was within maybe 400 range of the same spot for the entire 5 minutes - and you know what, when I noticed my creep line slightly pushing forward funnily enough I didn't decide "fuck it, I've clearly lost this static farm, may as well give up and /wrists" I took some corrective measures, started denying my own creeps at 50%, and brought it back the 2-300 units it had crept forward back towards my base. <-- that is what I was trying to describe, I may have not done it very well, but my point still stands that the basic static farm is:
Find spot you want to farm at. Deal equal damage to creep lines when they're clashing at full strength If your line is pushing too far forwards (whatever reason - when you started you had an extra ranged creep, you got distracted by a kitten and autoattacked three times, whatever), start denying your own creeps at higher hp ???? profit.
Double tapping creeps is like 2-shotting it, rather than doing it with one, I find it easier to control the creep wave and actually get denies rather than just start denying creeps at 50% like Iozarian is suggesting.
The situation you are describing depends on a lot more factors, what heroes you are playing against, what are they doing, what heroes you have, etc. Your options depend on a lot more things than just your lanes pushed. I know that sounds like a non-answer, but I really can't give you more than that. I can only offer things to consider when you make your decision.
EPT
