EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 21
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
|
Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
| ||
|
BalancedBreakfast
United States468 Posts
| ||
|
Mordiford
4448 Posts
On September 18 2011 01:13 BalancedBreakfast wrote: I've been noticing this slightly lately, but do you get gold a bit faster in Dota (vs hon)? I'm a relatively high level hon player, and I feel like its a bit easier to get 350-400gpm in Dota than HoN. I found it much easier to farm in HoN than in DotA, unless they've changed it recently, this is not the case. | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On September 17 2011 21:21 Nancial wrote: How come it isn't hon :D Sure dota/dota2 have a tiny little bit slower gameplay they say, but how bad can it be... also almost all of the trilaning supports that are used in hon came from dota and are available there. besides, i don't want to sound unfriendly, or anything like that, since i am just a guy who has practically only Hon experience (played many dota games back in wc3 days, but the memories are flushed ofc) and wants to find out the truth about trilaning. so we come back to the necessity to see a VOD of 2x3 ^^ Balancing is diferent. Basically every port from Dota has some sort of buff, for example, and the new heroes really have a diferent concept. It's not only a bit slower, the diference in gameplay is actually pretty big. It's the same reason melee carries are good in Dota and not in HoN, the games don't play the same. On September 18 2011 01:13 BalancedBreakfast wrote: I've been noticing this slightly lately, but do you get gold a bit faster in Dota (vs hon)? I'm a relatively high level hon player, and I feel like its a bit easier to get 350-400gpm in Dota than HoN. I find the opposite, that you have more money in HoN. A part of it may be that I believe it's easier for me to last hit in HoN, but the fact you get gold with assists helps a ton as well. | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
| ||
|
Nancial
197 Posts
On September 17 2011 22:48 Judicator wrote: If you really must ask, then when I show a replay, you wouldn't understand. The simple reason that tri-lanes can be punished for the 3 heroes in it and can be played where the other 2 heroes in the tri are not in a position to gank nor leave the lane which is terrible. And HoN's meta is no where as developed as DotA's. Y. I would not see 2 underfarmed and useless heroes at a constant risk of dying even if I had a microscope, right ? :D And although I do agree that HoN's metagame is pretty underdeveloped, but there was a period of time where every single top hon team in the world would play trilane because ,in spite of digging deep into metagame and inventing possible new strats, they pretty much failed to counter trilanes. As far as i know they are still used in every game. I don't think it's necessarily bad. | ||
|
BalancedBreakfast
United States468 Posts
I have to say, the HoN/DotA communities lately have been in love with the misuse of this word "metagame" I can only guess because the word makes a post look/sound intelligent? but it actually only has the opposite effect. please educate thyself with this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=130447 before it is too late T.T Edit to clarify because (i donno why but) this bothers me so much: Metagame does NOT mean "general strategy" or "general trend in strategy" or anything remotely close to that, which is how a ton of ppl seem to be using it. Metagame is more of using factors outside the game completely to affect the game. This would be an example of metagaming: You ask your hot friend to flirt with your opponent right before a match, thus effectively disabling him (^^) outside of the game, and therefore affecting his gameplay. The fact that 3-1-1 is becoming standard or, if we see a shift back to 2-1-2 lanes is NOT the "metagame shifting towards dual lanes" <- this doesn't make sense. just say "the general trend is shifting toward dual lanes" | ||
|
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 18 2011 05:19 Nancial wrote: Y. I would not see 2 underfarmed and useless heroes at a constant risk of dying even if I had a microscope, right ? :D And although I do agree that HoN's metagame is pretty underdeveloped, but there was a period of time where every single top hon team in the world would play trilane because ,in spite of digging deep into metagame and inventing possible new strats, they pretty much failed to counter trilanes. As far as i know they are still used in every game. I don't think it's necessarily bad. No, it's more like HoN is a different game at this point despite it's similarities to DotA. Also, 2 underfarmed heroes? What? Did you not just read what I said? Lane composition matters a lot in a tri-lane, you're not going to blindly run one and likewise you're not going to blindly throw two heroes against one either. I don't think you realize that sticking 3 heroes into a lane is risky. Watch any of the old Visage-CM-X tri-lanes and you would understand what to exploit. Edit: Also, if you think being underfarmed and underleveled means you lost the lane, then you really don't have a clue of how to beat a tri-lane. | ||
|
Nancial
197 Posts
Recently the term Metagame has come to be included in PC Gaming as an emergent strategy that is subset of the basic strategy necessary to play the game. The definition of this term is varied but can include "pre-game" theory, behavior prediction, or "ad hoc strategy" depending on the game being played. Some examples of this would be in StarCraft where a player's previous matches with the same opponent have given them insight into that player's strategy style and thus give them an edge. Another such example would be in League of Legends or World of Warcraft; where metagaming can refer to the current style or composition of teams in competitive play. To sum it up : it's not a mistake to use metagame in this context. I've never been misunderstood , although I've used this word in conversations with dozens of people. p.s. not a native english speaker, and none of them were english speakers either I guess. Yes IDD. I've no clue about how to beat a trilane without trilaning. But I repeat for 340824809th time - if you or someone else does , then there must be a fckng video of it. i consider all u say incorrect without a prooflink. (no offense. AT ALL. by this discussion i want to achieve one of two things a) broaden my strategic thinking b) or get a confirmation that atm it's broad enough) | ||
|
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
| ||
|
Nancial
197 Posts
In the meanwhile his team's trilane does a better job by killing/pushing/being gank-resistant. I can't imagine another scenario, but I will stop being a lazy bitch and look for answers at some other forums too a little... but I would still appreciate an example of strat vs a trilane that doesnt involve trilaning... | ||
|
Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 18 2011 10:19 Nancial wrote: Now that you've put it like that I start to understand what you mean to say, but still. The only thing a solo can do to "beat" a trilane is to man up and not feed , stay in xp range (IF POSSIBLE!!!) and maybe get a neutral creepkill (if counterwarded the pull). In the meanwhile his team's trilane does a better job by killing/pushing/being gank-resistant. I can't imagine another scenario, but I will stop being a lazy bitch and look for answers at some other forums too a little... but I would still appreciate an example of strat vs a trilane that doesnt involve trilaning... It depends on their tri-lane make up, how aggressive and fragile it is. Keep in mind that there are more ways to beat a tri-lane. If the other dual lane dominates the other solo or the mid solo gets rolled, that tri-lane can NOT stay together, it doesn't matter who's in it and therefore breaking it up since one of the 2 remaining should be behind. Tri-lane in a vacuum is a powerful, but that's not the case. | ||
|
Dead9
United States4725 Posts
Here you go: trilane versus dual lane in hon, same idea as in dota 1-1-2-jungle against 1-1-3 is really common in hon, this is just one of the more recent games I can remember off the top of my head. Most msi games (for a couple of months at least now) has been them stomping with a 1-1-2-jungle, often against a trilane. It hasn't been quite as common recently, but only because teams have caught on and ophelia/tempest are permabanned now (plus wildsoul has been permabanned for forever) as a side note ophelia is probably one of the most broken heroes in the game right now, I don't think she's dropped a single game in any casted games for quite a while 1-1-1-2roam has been really common has well, col aka dwi in particular use it a lot and have been using it a lot for a long time now 1-2-2 against 1-1-3 has been been popping since the international since everyone who plays hon watched dota2 and was like "wow that's a really good idea maybe we should try that" I think farming in hon and dota goes at about the same pace. Items seem to come at about the same pace, except obviously on heroes like alch and doom where you poop out gold. Assist gold really doesn't add that much gold, especially since hon doesn't have or has a lowered AoE gold bonus on kill (i'm pretty sure at least) | ||
|
ilovelings
Argentina776 Posts
| ||
|
Nancial
197 Posts
that's not poor strat choice, that is bad execution  thx for the entertaining replay tho | ||
|
Dead9
United States4725 Posts
but really look up any msi game, most of them are 1-1-2-jungle and a lot of them are up against trilanes | ||
|
Zieth
United States26 Posts
Putting two heroes against a trilane for instance is incredibly risky, as you risk not just one hero being crippled but two and the lane the hero was supposed to be in. Often times the dual mid strategy backfires completely against a side trilane, the trilane will just be at your base in 5 minutes so the dual lane has to react not the other way around. | ||
|
BuLbaSauRR
United States73 Posts
| ||
|
MonotonusRicer
6 Posts
I am a HoN player, and i play hon almost exclusively. I did however, like most of you, play dota back in 2005-2006 ( beginning of dota allstars, if i remember correctly). I recently installed and started playing Dota yet again, and although there are strong similarities between HoN and Dota, my main question are in regards to the mechanics and controls of Dota 2. 1) In HoN, there is an option to bind a key called "Cancel and Hold" so for instance i have spacebar attached to this key. This makes last hitting incredibly easy, regardless of hero (in HoN). U can animation cancel extremely easily, thus last hitting improves. 2) In contrast to Dota, there is no option that allows a player to "animation cancel" as easily - basically due to the "inferior" mechanics to would otherwise allow this. For instance, if you were to press "hold" or "stop" in dota in an attempt to last hit, your hero will automatically attack other nearby creeps, which makes last hitting A LOT harder. 3) Having observed leaked pictures of the "gameplay options" screen in dota 2 and the "control" options" - i see that the controls are extremely similar to that of the original dota controls - there is no option to bind "cancel and hold" to one key - which is dissapointing in my eyes. Can anyone who has an insight to this explain if last hitting and animation cancelling is as complex in dota 2 as in dota 1? or is there a simplified buttons/controls for this as in HoN? Regards, the ricer | ||
|
lozarian
United Kingdom1043 Posts
| ||
| ||
