EPTI noticed in progames they usually go for jungling and try to set up ganks. Or stay very defensive, and hope that the enemy overextends near towers and thus somehow turn it around. It seems however, that the percentage of usefulness of any of this is very low, and you just lose the game eventually.
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 12
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figq
12519 Posts
I noticed in progames they usually go for jungling and try to set up ganks. Or stay very defensive, and hope that the enemy overextends near towers and thus somehow turn it around. It seems however, that the percentage of usefulness of any of this is very low, and you just lose the game eventually. | ||
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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chocopaw
2072 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/user/dota2 (if there was a vote on it somewhere else or something similar link plz :>) | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On August 26 2011 03:04 chocopaw wrote: Can you tell me a specially recommendable game from the DotA2 tournament @ gamescom? http://www.youtube.com/user/dota2 (if there was a vote on it somewhere else or something similar link plz :>) anything above ro4 is good. Some games are cheese but it reflect the meta game that you could learn from. Team to follow: MiTH-trust, EHOME, Navi, scythe.sg, M5. Dont watch MYM games except their games in ro4. All of their wins are luck based mostly or the other team just being outclassed. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:59 figq wrote: What to do when you are behind, as a team? I mean, it's midgame, 10+ levels for both teams. Scores have been pretty even until now, but your team tried to push mid with epic fails. Many heroes died repeatedly, putting all of you significantly behind in levels. Now what? I noticed in progames they usually go for jungling and try to set up ganks. Or stay very defensive, and hope that the enemy overextends near towers and thus somehow turn it around. It seems however, that the percentage of usefulness of any of this is very low, and you just lose the game eventually. it depends on your line up. If you have a hard carry such as AM or weaver or void, just try to ward river and push creep to the other side of river wait until the carry has enough items to 1v5 the other team. This is what they call "creating room for carry" to farm :-/ otherwise if you have a ganking/pushing composition, stick together and put some anti ward + smoke up. Try to catch their hero out of position(most likely carry) and preventing roshan. Most of the composition has a time where they are vulnerable to some certain strat. Thats why ban/pick phase will decide how can you come back in any sort of situation. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
So as melee hero, you either don't last hit, and don't get gold, or you last hit and you die fast to open kiting from the enemy heroes. What am I missing? Are melee heroes generally bad? (but then, why are they so recommended for noobs?) | ||
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On August 26 2011 23:07 figq wrote: Thanks a lot! And another one about melee heroes and laning, especially vs ranged heroes. As far as I can see, your only way to last hit as melee is to walk around your creeps, and go behind the enemy creeps. That means, between enemy creeps and enemy heroes, away from your own creeps and your hero support. Naturally, enemy ranged heroes will harass you very badly when you do that, with very little you can do about it. So as melee hero, you either don't last hit, and don't get gold, or you last hit and you die fast to open kiting from the enemy heroes. What am I missing? Are melee heroes generally bad? (but then, why are they so recommended for noobs?) there are different techniques to farm as melee heroes but overall its much harder compare to a range hero. If your melee heroes dont have a farming mechanic (kunka splash etc), the best solution is not to push your lane up and farm close to tower. Doing so will give you an average amount of cs. Another way often seen in comp. dota is to have a support hero harass the enemy while you farm. This hero should be a range hero and dont need money/level to be useful. Best examples would be lich/CM/lion etc. Last solution would be 'pulling jungle' which could applied to top dire and bot radiant. You can pull the jugnle creeps to your lane at a precise timing so you lane creep AI will choose to attack the jungle creep and support you to farm. Doing this will help you farm safely in your own jungle as the same time causing the enemy creeps get closer to your tower and easier to last hit. This is the reason why you see in comp dota people normally ward at the jungle creep spawn point to prevent creep spawning there early on in the game. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On August 27 2011 01:03 Shikyo wrote: What's a good skillbuild for a teamfight Invoker and what item build / skill combos should one use? Not sure if this is simple enough >_> theres a lot of different ways to go about it. concentrate on the primary spells (meteor, nado, cold snap, emp, for mid/late deafening and forge spirits, also situational icewall and situational alacrity) and tailor the build around that. if you're still a noob always remember ghost walk is your escape. cold snap and sun strike are your best friends for ganks. never go wex @ level 1 invoker unless you need it in a 1/100 game situation, exort and quas are much better for early lane control (exort against weak laners, quas against strong laners). however you should have it by level 3 or 4 | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On August 27 2011 01:14 Dattish wrote: Not sure about item and skillbuilds, but most people I've seen in cws seem to favor using that tornado thingy followed by a quick EMP. Around what level would they be at that point? | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On August 27 2011 01:17 rabidch wrote: theres a lot of different ways to go about it. concentrate on the primary spells (meteor, nado, cold snap, emp, for mid/late deafening and forge spirits, also situational icewall and situational alacrity) and tailor the build around that. if you're still a noob always remember ghost walk is your escape. cold snap and sun strike are your best friends for ganks. never go wex @ level 1 invoker unless you need it in a 1/100 game situation, exort and quas are much better for early lane control (exort against weak laners, quas against strong laners). however you should have it by level 3 or 4 oh and that said, try to not put yourself in the position where you have to use ghost walk unless you're doing a carry invoker and farming, it usually means that you were out of position | ||
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lozarian
United Kingdom1043 Posts
It depends on how you're laning invoker, what stage of the game the teamfight is, whether you're needing to turtle or not, whether you're going for agha caster invoker, dps invoker.. etc. However as a very simple example, a quas/wex heavy defensive invoker with a singleton in exort works very nicely as a passive laner/dual laner (cold snap) and has access to a lot of disable and AoE, as well as turtle, I'd go quas over wex until you feel safe, or you get 4 quas, to max out the slow on ice wall, then singleton exort just before you feel team fights are going to start happening to get blast, or level 13 at the latest: tornado, EMP, ice wall, deafening blast, cold snap, as well as solid strength gain. I'd tend to go for this build if it looked like an early push was coming early, as torando and emp are far better push stoppers than meteor imo, primarily due to cooldown concerns, as well as the mana drain being pretty harsh on early pushes. It's very hard to lane against properly due to nuts regen from quas, and tornado/emp being arguably the most irritating thing in dota. Setting up the fight I'd go either emp then tornado, or tornado then emp, depending on quas levels, not that it matters much, since emp is flat hp removal - it's just whether the emp will actually hit. Then switch to a blast if they have heavy dps carry or it looks like the battle is going south, otherwise cold snap or ice wall, depending on if you need to take out one guy or slow a bunch of them. Personally I think aghanim's invoker is superior to basically every other kind, then into a guinsoo. DPS invoker is a compeltely different matter, that revovles around mostly alacrity and dps items - it hits like a freaking truck, and gives you access to both meteor and sun strike, which is either a blessing or a curse - I know I spend way too much time looking at other lanes when I'm going exort heavy with invoker. Err. I could probably go on for about 2-3000 words on invoker, if you can narrow down a question that would be spiffy ^^ | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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St.Velten
Germany222 Posts
On August 27 2011 02:54 Horse...falcon wrote: So I know he's not in CM mode yet but I remember everyone was crying imba about Thrall when he first came out. Did he get toned down and/or is he still a beast? 6.71 - Static Storm cooldown increased from 75 to 85 6.70 - Thunderstrike manacost increased from 100/110/120/130 to 130 6.69 - Static Storm cooldown increased from 60 to 75 He just got nerves as you can tell, but hes still quiet powerfull in the right hands. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On August 27 2011 03:37 Shikyo wrote: Okay thanks, just played a game with Invoker where we won 4v5 vs a fed mortred(who built triple battlefury in 32min). Deafening blast is prettygud More like PA pretty bad. On August 28 2011 06:09 St.Velten wrote: 6.71 - Static Storm cooldown increased from 75 to 85 6.70 - Thunderstrike manacost increased from 100/110/120/130 to 130 6.69 - Static Storm cooldown increased from 60 to 75 He just got nerves as you can tell, but hes still quiet powerfull in the right hands. Too bad his best skill didn't get touched at all. 1800 cast range on Glimpse, seems fair. Oh you tp-ed to your tower? Go back. | ||
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