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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1187

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
April 27 2016 04:01 GMT
#23721
sr is usually after blink
sr before blink was better during ancient stacking days

also aghs is really good against illusion heroes
eg pl, ck, tb, etc
Thetwinmasters
Profile Joined January 2015
3578 Posts
April 27 2016 04:55 GMT
#23722
can somebody test if od orb reflects pure dmg back on blademail even when bkb'd
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
April 27 2016 13:53 GMT
#23723
On April 27 2016 13:55 Thetwinmasters wrote:
can somebody test if od orb reflects pure dmg back on blademail even when bkb'd


You will take blademail damage while BKBed yeah.

It's dumb.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
April 27 2016 13:54 GMT
#23724
This question may not exactly be "simple" but how exactly do you deal with a solo mid Lich that sacrifices every single ranged creep?

Faced this yesterday and in a couple of mins he was 2-3 levels ahead.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-27 14:17:22
April 27 2016 14:05 GMT
#23725
Probably mostly do your thing and be happy that they have a very non-scaling mid, putting them on somewhat of a timer to get things done before they inevitably get outscaled by "proper" mids.

Theres a bunch of really annoying 1v1 heroes that can easily win lanes early but which often have a lot of troubles converting their early laning lead to something meaningsful. Bane is similar (put him mid and hello endless brain sap spam which also heals him). Jakiro in some cases. Brood/Viper too although they're still agi heroes they fall off pretty damn hard.

So if 1v1 vs lich, last hit like normal. Gank when u can like normal. Farm jungle when u can like normal. If you have a good creep clearing hero you can prioritize stacking camps and clearing them out a bit more than staying in the lane (especially as radiant due to the two close camps). If you can jungle you could do that full time and ask a support to take mid. Hes on a timer and the one forced to be active and do stuff. Youre not. If you dont fall massively behind you should be fine come midgame.

That said, with the new ranged creep xp i can see Lich being annoying as hell. But I dont really think theres much else you can do than the above (not counting any possible gank help from allies and all that ofc).
Thetwinmasters
Profile Joined January 2015
3578 Posts
April 27 2016 15:10 GMT
#23726
On April 27 2016 22:53 DinoMight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2016 13:55 Thetwinmasters wrote:
can somebody test if od orb reflects pure dmg back on blademail even when bkb'd


You will take blademail damage while BKBed yeah.

It's dumb.

Good lord OD got shit on
ahw
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada1099 Posts
April 27 2016 20:07 GMT
#23727
On April 27 2016 22:54 DinoMight wrote:
This question may not exactly be "simple" but how exactly do you deal with a solo mid Lich that sacrifices every single ranged creep?

Faced this yesterday and in a couple of mins he was 2-3 levels ahead.


u gotta rely on ganks, jungle, and mid game fights / pickoffs to recover. If they actually give lich a core position then you'll be fine u just gotta outlast em.
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-28 01:10:45
April 28 2016 01:08 GMT
#23728
The actual worst case scenario is that they have a real mid and a lich chilling at the t2 who you never see except when he wanders over to frostblast you.

I have no idea what to do about that. You end up levelling with the enemy roaming support while the other mid freefarms.
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
April 28 2016 06:37 GMT
#23729
Can anyone tell me the merits of Echo Sabre? Essentially it's just an extra attack every 5s, making it some pure pseudo DPS item (someone calculate the DPS gain?). Fairly certain this item atm is overrated.
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
April 28 2016 06:39 GMT
#23730
our slark got one as second item (after blink). it synergized with the stat steal and basher. idk if its worth it
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
April 28 2016 09:23 GMT
#23731
Mostly used for the heroes who really benefit from the extra in quick succession, imagine sven having 5 attacks instead of 4 when he has ulti up, it can make huge difference.

Its not really slot effective item for later on so u should get rid of it at some point but its fine early to mid game item because u dont even use any gold for recipe, its just 2 pieces of items that provide the stats they normally do. Problem with Sven f.e. is item slots, if u go Treads Hotd Sabre SnY Blink BKB, u already have 6 items very early on and u dont even carry tp.

So basicly heroes who have the damage to kill, but have hard time actually hitting people should consider buying Echo Saber, like WK LS Sven CK LC Riki Void SB just to name a few. Also heroes with built-in procs like bashes benefit a lot from 1 extra attack.

Slot efficiency vs, 1 hit more needed vs. procs vs. burst.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
April 28 2016 16:49 GMT
#23732
It's not really slot efficient or efficient in any sense considering that you don't ever need Oblivion Staff on most if not all of these heroes.
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
April 28 2016 17:13 GMT
#23733
On April 27 2016 22:53 DinoMight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2016 13:55 Thetwinmasters wrote:
can somebody test if od orb reflects pure dmg back on blademail even when bkb'd


You will take blademail damage while BKBed yeah.

It's dumb.

No, they said it reflects the damage as they're recived, OD's dmg are pure non BKB piercing so he won't take them back.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
April 28 2016 17:18 GMT
#23734
Thats why i said: Its not really slot effective item. Pretty sure u cant even disassemble Echo Sabre.

But its fairly cost effective, 10 str 10 int 15 dmg 10 ias 75% mana regen for less than 3k (for reference Diffusal Blade gives 25 agi and 10 int, for little over 3k (Diffusal blade is really good midgame item, even lategame viable)
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11447 Posts
April 28 2016 18:12 GMT
#23735
On April 29 2016 02:18 Velzi wrote:
Thats why i said: Its not really slot effective item. Pretty sure u cant even disassemble Echo Sabre.

But its fairly cost effective, 10 str 10 int 15 dmg 10 ias 75% mana regen for less than 3k (for reference Diffusal Blade gives 25 agi and 10 int, for little over 3k (Diffusal blade is really good midgame item, even lategame viable)


My bad.

Did the math. It's essentially a +~44IAS item for 2.6k with HP/MP. Not sold on it at all compared to Drums + 1k, or Armlet.
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-28 19:50:10
April 28 2016 19:48 GMT
#23736
It has a few other benefits besides the stats and effective IAS increase. Thanks to the move slow and uneven attack speed, it lends itself to a pattern of 3 attack burst -> reposition for 3 seconds -> 3 attack burst -> repeat. Or, when chasing, you can land a double attack every 5 seconds while not giving the target any extra distance.



Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-04-28 20:13:14
April 28 2016 20:05 GMT
#23737
I think a lot of it's downsides are mitigated if you're picking it up on a position 3 or even a position 2 with a greedy 1. It offers a lot early on in exchange for slot inefficiency, but as a lower position you're not intending on 6 slotting yourself with decent items early on anyways. On top of that you're more likely to have the position 1 grab something like drums or RoA which are some often mentioned competition.

Like I find the item great on an offlane Riki for a bunch of reasons, but one being you don't expect to lead in networth. So you can devout a slot to Saber and not run into item slot issues until well into the game.

I think the same logic would apply to other offlaners who rely on right clicks like an offlane Slardar.

But also on Riki though...

* His damage is front loaded to the backstabs you get before your target turns around so a burst of attack speed is better than a flat even boost.

* It works well with diffusal to overall make big bursts on a target (blink strike + echo proc and possibly followed with Tricks of the Trade for yet another backstab hit)

* It helps keep targets in cloud for even longer.

* He's squishy, but slippery when given a chance. The extra HP helps give you a chance to tricks of the trade, cloud, or blink strike.

* The mana is pretty useful to keep roaming and can even let you jungle decently.

* It mitigates blade mail and Eul's to a decent extent by offering a quick burst. Unless the person has amazing reaction times they'll take 2 strikes before activating their item, and by time Eul's ends you have Saber and Blink Strike coming off cooldown so a lot of your actual damage potential is not affected by the Eul's.

* You don't want to build flat +IAS items on Riki. He'll get high IAS with agi items, but something like drums is not necessarily a particularly attractive alternative item. Then of course if you're playing a lower position Riki there's also a higher chance your mid or safelane is getting drums themselves.

If nothing else you can always use Kunkka + KotL and Echo Saber to cheese out double Tidebringer initiations.
Logo
Thetwinmasters
Profile Joined January 2015
3578 Posts
April 28 2016 20:22 GMT
#23738
On April 29 2016 02:13 nojok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2016 22:53 DinoMight wrote:
On April 27 2016 13:55 Thetwinmasters wrote:
can somebody test if od orb reflects pure dmg back on blademail even when bkb'd


You will take blademail damage while BKBed yeah.

It's dumb.

No, they said it reflects the damage as they're recived, OD's dmg are pure non BKB piercing so he won't take them back.

all pure damage pierces bkb its just depends if the pure damage spell can target bkb targets
les
Profile Joined February 2010
143 Posts
April 28 2016 21:38 GMT
#23739
Is the mana break from diffusal physical or magic dmg? Does it increase (the dmg of the burn) if I put medaillon on the enemy?
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
April 28 2016 21:49 GMT
#23740
physical and yes u can increase it with medallion but the damage from mana break cant crit or cleave
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
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