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lol that is such bs
trying to differentiate between players' skill because theyre 4k or 5k is ridiculous
the ranking system is an absolutely trash way of measuring someones actual skill and you should never judge a players skill on it. i know for a fact that there are some 5-6k players who, if they ever formed a team, would get absolutely stomped the shit out of by players i know in the 4-5k region.
maybe you should reword your question to ask 'whats the difference between a decent player and an advanced player' because thats infinitely easier to answer than asking in terms of mmr
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Of course theres a difference. It shows that the 5k player is a descent amount better at winning pub games than the 4k. No more, no less.
If thats what you call skill, then he absolutely is more skilled. If you define skill as something else, such as competitive viability, which people like do to (omg mmr means nothing!!!), then its no more than an indicator of someones skill. And indicators can be anything between very right or sometimes wrong.
As for the original question of difference: Im not sure theres one thing that defines the difference between 4ks and 5ks. I think its just overall a bit better at everything. A bit better at farming, at last hitting, at positioning, at map awareness, at supporting, at ability to take smart fights, etc etc. Theres also definitely a difference in "tryhard level". Where a 4k is much more likely to stright up give up/intentionally feed/play purposedly bad/decide to not buy a single supp item as a supp hero/etc if something doesnt go his way, the 5k is more likely to keep trying. But im not sure how relevant that is, its the same differences between 5ks and 6ks and, I would guess, between 3ks and 4ks.
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On September 04 2015 01:28 HUMMAN wrote:
Whats the difference in terms of playstlye between 4k and 5k?
"The 5ks are just barely surviving against the 4ks... They look like they're, you know, slightly over-aggressive, but they're able to eke out the tiny bit of advantage and get these kills that they normally wouldn't have." - Zack Nigogosyan
(source)
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I looked at that vid for like a minute and fast forwarded it to various points in the game just see what happened. Is being 18-2 at 15min "barely surviving"? =) It looks like a complete stomp to me.
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MMR may not be a perfect way of judging skill, but saying there isn't an overall difference between 4k and 5k is ridiculous. My party games tend to be around 1k below my solo. The difference in skill is gigantic.
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On September 04 2015 15:40 Kreb wrote:
I looked at that vid for like a minute and fast forwarded it to various points in the game just see what happened. Is being 18-2 at 15min "barely surviving"? =) It looks like a complete stomp to me.
The quote's from the second or third time a 5k hero survives at less than 5% health, and then turns and kills a 4k hero for trying to finish them off.
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On September 04 2015 13:45 evilfatsh1t wrote:
lol that is such bs
trying to differentiate between players' skill because theyre 4k or 5k is ridiculous
the ranking system is an absolutely trash way of measuring someones actual skill and you should never judge a players skill on it. i know for a fact that there are some 5-6k players who, if they ever formed a team, would get absolutely stomped the shit out of by players i know in the 4-5k region.
maybe you should reword your question to ask 'whats the difference between a decent player and an advanced player' because thats infinitely easier to answer than asking in terms of mmr
specifying different kinds of things people are better or worse at in different mmr brackets is silly, but there's a big difference between 4k and 5k.
I can easily believe a team of 5ks could beat another team of 6ks although there would have to be significant strategical advantage on the 5ks team(aka outdraft). A team of 4ks is never going to beat a team of 5ks because there's too much skill difference in mechanics/efficiency(and that's the only aspect of overall skill that you can reliably say gets better with mmr).
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Bit math talk maybe, but worth noting just generally is that the difference in skill between two players whose MMR's differs with X is gonna be larger the closer to the middle of the bell curve you are.
Example:
Lets say the highest MMR guy is 8000, 2nd highest 7500, 3rd 7250 and 4th 7000. Thats 1k difference between guy 1 and 4, but how big is the skill difference? Probably very small, you could put the 4th best guy on the 1st guys games and the chances of winning would barely change at all. Its just that at the far ends of the MMR bell curve it sorta drags out and becomes extra large differences. Things like tryhard level (do they play fotm mid heroes all games or do they play all roles and all heroes?) come into play a lot, and the 7k could easily be as skilled or more skilled the 8k, its just that the 8k plays Lesh mid all games.
Meanwhile at the middle of the bell curve (say between 2k and 3k mmr) the difference is gonna be much bigger. Theres millions of people in between a 2k guy and a 3k guy in skill. Put a 2k guy in a 3k game and he's likely to be a problem for his team, and the chances of that team winning would be lowered much much more than in the 1st vs 4th guy example.
Maybe worth thinking about.
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I'm pretty sure that at 6k+ mmr what starts mattering is what kind of heroes you pick and how 'good' you become at carrying weaker players as you'll generally have much more unbalanced games than below 6k mmr.
I mean zai/ppd both just random and they're around 6k.
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the differences do get much smaller obviously, but zai genuinely plays abysmal in pubs and ppd's core is.. a little questionable :D
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On September 04 2015 19:01 Andre wrote:
I'm pretty sure that at 6k+ mmr what starts mattering is what kind of heroes you pick and how 'good' you become at carrying weaker players as you'll generally have much more unbalanced games than below 6k mmr.
I mean zai/ppd both just random and they're around 6k.
Ye were kinda saying the same. As you said, a bunch of 6ks will have larger chance against 7k than 5ks against 6k. And 5ks against 6ks larger chance than 4ks against 5ks.
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On September 04 2015 01:28 HUMMAN wrote:
Whats the difference in terms of playstlye between 4k and 5k?
Less talk more playing.
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i never said that there isnt a difference. its pinpointing the difference that is stupid.
its especially harder in 6k+ ranges obviously, but trying to answer his question straight on as if theres some written criteria for how one should play in order to hit 5k is just plain wrong.
as someone noted previously, one could hit 5k just spamming sf mid whilst another could get it playing random every game. both 5k yet one is probably way better than the other.
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not following retard teammates into ur doom
not making big mistakes
exploiting mistakes enemies make
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When woken up from nightmare with a spell, does the spell deal damange?
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On September 07 2015 05:26 PuercoPop wrote:
When woken up from nightmare with a spell, does the spell deal damange?
yes
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when should i buy urn before force staff as vengeful spirit and other applicable supports? when i need the extra mobility? or does it just mostly come down to personal preference?
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Urn is good if you expect lots of fighting and to some extent pushing. Urn keeps you and your team on high hp both so you can sustain pushes or just stay on the map more at higher health. If you have a couple of strong tower pushers urn is often a good choice. If you have a drow in your team (expected pushing) you should be much more likely to get it than if u have an AM in your team (expected farming). Also consider how involed youll be in fights. An AA for example isnt likely to be close to all fights becaus of his ult. Meanwhile something like a Dazzle needs to be in fight to use his toolkit, so much more likely to make use of an urn.
Go straight force or glimmer if you dont see any immediate need for urn. Its items thats useful both at 15min and at 50min, while urn isnt. Also against some heroes you really want those items. If you have an enemy storm building an orchid, you might wanna try to make sure you get a glimmer asap. Or if they have a clock, rush a force staff.
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On September 07 2015 05:26 PuercoPop wrote:
When woken up from nightmare with a spell, does the spell deal damange?
anomaly: for w.e reason burning spear stacks dont remove sleep so they take full dmg
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United States47024 Posts
On September 07 2015 07:54 ChunderBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 05:26 PuercoPop wrote:
When woken up from nightmare with a spell, does the spell deal damange? anomaly: for w.e reason burning spear stacks dont remove sleep so they take full dmg
Also applies to Ember Sleight of Fist--Sleight on a Nightmare'd target does damage but does not end the Nightmare.
Nightmare has a lot of weird inconsistent interactions.
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EPT
