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hard to imagine a game where the team with morph is getting pushed in honestly.
it would have to be a DK push, drow push, something like that, but meanwhile morph actually offers counterpush or some way of slowing it down by pressuring a lane.
i don't know how much you hold value to this paraphrasing, but era himself has rationalized on his stream that morph does the AM splitpush faster and harder, etc.
On September 03 2016 16:50 Kaj wrote:
No, the point, i am trying to make is, until you get lvl eblade and linkens and are lvl 14. Your contribution in team fights where the enemy has an advantage is close to zero. Your only real reliable nuke is Waveform, and you cant wave from into the enemy team because it is also your only means of escape. And lets say you are lvl 10, and you only have a lvl 1 adaptive strike, which does shit for damage. Your ultimate basically contributes very very little, unless theres a sick radiance carrier like alch, or someone like axe. Nearly all harry carry have a bigger impact in team fights with the same amount of farm that he has, Hell, PL even without diffusal has pretty good nuke that he can spam safely. there is almost no worse carry than morphling that has so little contribution early on with how much farm he has and levels.
in your example here and then your later example with AM, at level ~10 (around 14-16m in) he's not going to have manta either. it's a naked battlefury, or a full vanguard. same with spectre, infancy stages right before they hit their stride.
you don't think a morph with dragon lance, perseverance can help with a defense as much as most other farming carries?
because morphling does have some build variation too.
unless you mean defending t1's, i think the point is to lane properly so that it does not get to that point where your middling morphling is needed for a defense. even so, there are ways to stall out a push without directly contributing or even being there.
i know you know this, but it can't be overstated.
one of those ways is morph can replicate and pressure a t2 for one or two waves.
i agree adaptive that early on isn't as strong as [spirit] lance, but what is?
i don't know it's getting hypothetical but at the least morphling can burst 500, replicate out and call it a day, all in the same invulnerable, untargetable combo. wave form + auto + adaptive [300 + 100 + 100]
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In a game where Morph is having a decent/okay game, you can start looking at like a 22-25 min Linkens + EBlade. What I am talking about is the pre 25 min window where hes still extremely weak in fights for the amount of farm that he has. Most teams get their core items at around the 20 min mark. What I am saying is that he is extremely weak compared to most other carries, especially when you have to play from behind.
In fact in order for a good morph game, there are alot of factors
1) He must have a good start
2) Team must not feed too much
3) Enemy team lacks silences
Hes GREAT to play from ahead, because in fights where your team is crushing your morph can just idgaf and use waveforms to secure kills and what not when you tp in, but when you are behind, even the morph is pretty farmed pre eblade, and pre lvl 14, there is very little he can do because you have to reserve wave from for escape. And dont give me the crap about OH but he does 500 damage burst OMGG. Its like actually one of the worst burst you can do. A morphling has about 700 mana or so at the 14-24 min mark. Give or take. And the actual wave form adaptive replicate out takes a SHIT ton of mana. about close to 500 to be exact. If you do that shit, you are probably gonna cry yourself back to base afterwards because you are so low on mana, and u cant split push safely either because ur replicate is on cd.
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you were basically painting a picture of a do or die defense based on some hypotheticals; i happened to give you the '500 burst' crap because it's true. if push comes to shove, he can do that and instantly get out with replicate if needed.
opinion: i view that as an actual strength.
both arguments get weaker and weaker but you're taking it a bit far by trying to overpersuade.
i'm not sure what the dealio is. do you have a replay or something of a salty morph game?
could you be slightly less biased and offer some more insight on what heroes are definitely better in your situations and how?
i'm not asking you to go out on a limb and to prove there's flaws or w/e in your game knowledge/philosophy or anything like that.
morphling with linkens can't split push safely without a replicate out?
if you're not convinced about the str. of the hero or none of what's been said here is convincing enough (or true), all i can try to say is watch some games and keep an open mind. morphling is a top pick right this moment.
pretty unrelated, but i don't know why these dota strat. forums have to be so contrary and know-it-all sometimes. you should see some of the other discussion out there such as in dota 2 subreddits, it can be a lot more constructive and less confrontational in my opinion at least.
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I'm sure if you are having issues being 5 manned down before you get your core items you are going to have the exact same issues if you are AM, Spec, Slark, anything really. You are probably just failing to apply pressure on enemy objectives properly and just flash farming your own jungle/safelane then wondering why your team is super poor and you have 1 tower down to their 6.
If you are going to say hes useless when your team loses lanes then gets midgame deathballed it's a fair criticism but on any other hard carry you are just as fucked in that situation if not more so because only AM and Naga can really apply similar levels of pressure on the sidelanes to stop the 5 man train.
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I wouldn't go armlet unless you know for certain that game will be 100% lost if you do not participate in the fight, and that is after considering letting 1 set of raxes go. Reason being that if you are that far behind, perhaps buying back may be more important and impactful; in addition, if you were to hold you will be very close to eblade which will make next hold a lot easier.
Alternatively, with that gold maybe ghost sceptor + raindrop will make the difference as well.
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armlet's 100% not the play ROFL
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armlet on non STR heroes, please stop this nonsense guys.
it's the same when people recommended it on PA. it's all a gimmick, and if you won with it, you would've won without it too.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
we've been here before with laertes
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I did a lot of testing since I first posted about it. I am extremely certain that it has to be after the linkens, the item takes only a minute to get once you have linkens, but can take as many as three if you do it pre-linkens.
where can I get that 2370 GPM bro, can I have pls
@everyone else, what's everyone's opinion on going brown boots into linkens without aquila or treads, vs getting a bunch of smaller items first?
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I been playing morph lately and I like brown boots only. I tend to skip treads but it's on my quick buy just in case I'm about to die and don't wanna lose unreliable gold. I'd say the same thing for aquila, but less important. there's so many small items you'd want and aquila takes a valuable slot.
1. boots (treads if forced to buy)
2. wand
3. TP
4. QB (I guess this is the aquila slot if forced to buy like treads)
5. perseverance
6. rain drop
I also watch BSJ streams (he kinda spams morph because he has good winrate on it), and so far he does same thing, only gets treads/aquila when about to die while saving for ulti orb.
skipping treads and aquila if possible can you give an early timing on the linken's and allow you to split push/farm more aggressively for your next item. and since morphling is generally a hero you want early-ish travels on, that's another reason to skip treads.
this is 4k mmr talking though. so take my advice lightly. of course assess the game as it goes on... I'd buy the treads and aquila if it's gonna be lots of fighting early on or your laning phase sucked so bad that you need to have some items.
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On September 05 2016 08:32 Birdie wrote:Show nested quote + I did a lot of testing since I first posted about it. I am extremely certain that it has to be after the linkens, the item takes only a minute to get once you have linkens, but can take as many as three if you do it pre-linkens. where can I get that 2370 GPM bro, can I have pls @everyone else, what's everyone's opinion on going brown boots into linkens without aquila or treads, vs getting a bunch of smaller items first?
Don't know the math on it, but it feels like if you're getting completely freefarm lane, then Treads+Aquila is still going to be better because you can do Hard camp pulls and spam Waveform more.
And of course if you're not getting freefarm, those extra stats are probably needed.
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On September 05 2016 07:27 trinxified wrote:
armlet on non STR heroes, please stop this nonsense guys.
it's the same when people recommended it on PA. it's all a gimmick, and if you won with it, you would've won without it too.
It is legit on PA. On morph nope, because unlike pa, morph is not meant to be skirmishing or fighting. He doesn't rely on much right clicks early on, primary damage comes from waveform (usually able to use twice in a kill). There is no early 'fighting' dps morph because his skill set isn't build for it.
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On September 05 2016 09:42 DucK- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2016 07:27 trinxified wrote:
armlet on non STR heroes, please stop this nonsense guys.
it's the same when people recommended it on PA. it's all a gimmick, and if you won with it, you would've won without it too. It is legit on PA. On morph nope, because unlike pa, morph is not meant to be skirmishing or fighting. He doesn't rely on much right clicks early on, primary damage comes from waveform (usually able to use twice in a kill). There is no early 'fighting' dps morph because his skill set isn't build for it.
well yeah armlet is better on PA than on morph, but no way is it an item you should consider nowadays. so many small items can make you fight better and not end up being a dead-end item.
if you're looking for tankiness, I'd get vanguard over armlet anytime with PA.
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In the situation where you need an item at around Armlet's price point because you must have an item for the next fight, I am pretty sure that Dragon Lance (plus a casual bracer/band/cloak/wand if so inclined) is the item you want on Morph. If you already have a dlance, maybe Yasha.
I think the question of whether Morphling is (comparatively) good in the earlygame or not depends on your team composition and that of your opponents. In some situations, Waveform and some rightclicks can turn a losing fight for your team into a winning one (this isn't necessarily a game where you're ahead - consider a game where your team has a fair bit of burst damage, but needs a little more to get enough kills quickly to cleanly win a fight). Another thing is how early you have to go in - if you're the first or second person who has to run into a fight on your team, you're going to have a bad time early on Morph. I am speaking in very broad generalities here, but the important thing is the following.
tl;dr: Morphling can be good or bad in earlygame fights, depending not only on whether you're ahead or behind but also the pattern of how your team wants to take fights.
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Slightly offtopic but sumail's doing PA armlet right now  but I'm still sure armlet morph is not any good.
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28087 Posts
On September 05 2016 13:44 Birdie wrote:Slightly offtopic but sumail's doing PA armlet right now but I'm still sure armlet morph is not any good.
He did Armlet on PA yesterday too.
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perfect
User was warned for this post
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People underestimate how good Aquila is for pushing. don't wanna skip it in most games, especially since morph kinda depends on split push threat.
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Personally I like Aquila and get it nearly every morph game, but it is probably skippable depending on your preference. RoB is pretty core tho, it just helps with your mana/armour early game and as mentioned really helps with pushes.
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EPT
