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On August 06 2016 07:12 Kreb wrote:
Support Morph is great if, and this is a big if, you can get through the laning stage.
You're awful at harassing offlaners. You're awful at zoning. You cant use the jungle. You cant roam. You can pretty much stack, pull, soak exp. Which is absolutely fine if your safelane is secure and your mid is ok. But there will also be those pub games where you have a WK carry against a timber offlane. Or you're up against a strong duo offlane. And you're supposed to secure WK his farm. Which.... wont go well.
Support/offlane morph really needs lvl 5 before hes a hero, preferably lvl 7 since thats when his stun is maxed. Offlane is the safer choice for that reason. You're "supposed to" lose the offlane, so sitting there soaking exp while being hard to kill with waveform is fine. As support you cant just always sit and leach exp from a lane and be fine, as offlane you can most of the time.
That said, if you can get through those early levels its probably preferable with sup morph over offlane. Neither will scale well and both will buy utility stuff. The offlane version will get slightly more and get items slightly faster, but thats really not game breaking. Its better you're sup and you have a somewhat better scaling offlaners in that case. But remember the big if.
If given the space, you can use the jungle to get to level 5. Not the fastest, but it is still levels on a hero that wants levels if played as support.
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On August 06 2016 07:12 Kreb wrote:
Support Morph is great if, and this is a big if, you can get through the laning stage.
You're awful at harassing offlaners. You're awful at zoning. You cant use the jungle. You cant roam. You can pretty much stack, pull, soak exp. Which is absolutely fine if your safelane is secure and your mid is ok. But there will also be those pub games where you have a WK carry against a timber offlane. Or you're up against a strong duo offlane. And you're supposed to secure WK his farm. Which.... wont go well.
Support/offlane morph really needs lvl 5 before hes a hero, preferably lvl 7 since thats when his stun is maxed. Offlane is the safer choice for that reason. You're "supposed to" lose the offlane, so sitting there soaking exp while being hard to kill with waveform is fine. As support you cant just always sit and leach exp from a lane and be fine, as offlane you can most of the time.
That said, if you can get through those early levels its probably preferable with sup morph over offlane. Neither will scale well and both will buy utility stuff. The offlane version will get slightly more and get items slightly faster, but thats really not game breaking. Its better you're sup and you have a somewhat better scaling offlaners in that case. But remember the big if.
You don't lane support morphling. You cliff jungle him (which is significantly easier on dire-side, while still possible radiant). You get like a 5 min lvl 5.
On August 06 2016 03:47 BoZiffer wrote:
The way Wings used support morph against OG (Miracle AM) is a great, although not likely repeatable, example if you're looking for how to do it. That team had stuns for days and was so well coordinated..again, not your standard issue pub.
Funny how this occurs a few days after I say supp morphling is a good counter to AM...
And no, that is usually how my supp morph games play out. The first few stuns allied people don't realize how long the stun is, then they realize they can wail on the AM for 4.25s.
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On August 06 2016 23:16 juracule wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 07:12 Kreb wrote:
Support Morph is great if, and this is a big if, you can get through the laning stage.
You're awful at harassing offlaners. You're awful at zoning. You cant use the jungle. You cant roam. You can pretty much stack, pull, soak exp. Which is absolutely fine if your safelane is secure and your mid is ok. But there will also be those pub games where you have a WK carry against a timber offlane. Or you're up against a strong duo offlane. And you're supposed to secure WK his farm. Which.... wont go well.
Support/offlane morph really needs lvl 5 before hes a hero, preferably lvl 7 since thats when his stun is maxed. Offlane is the safer choice for that reason. You're "supposed to" lose the offlane, so sitting there soaking exp while being hard to kill with waveform is fine. As support you cant just always sit and leach exp from a lane and be fine, as offlane you can most of the time.
That said, if you can get through those early levels its probably preferable with sup morph over offlane. Neither will scale well and both will buy utility stuff. The offlane version will get slightly more and get items slightly faster, but thats really not game breaking. Its better you're sup and you have a somewhat better scaling offlaners in that case. But remember the big if. You don't lane support morphling. You cliff jungle him (which is significantly easier on dire-side, while still possible radiant). You get like a 5 min lvl 5. Show nested quote +On August 06 2016 03:47 BoZiffer wrote:
The way Wings used support morph against OG (Miracle AM) is a great, although not likely repeatable, example if you're looking for how to do it. That team had stuns for days and was so well coordinated..again, not your standard issue pub. Funny how this occurs a few days after I say supp morphling is a good counter to AM... And no, that is usually how my supp morph games play out. The first few stuns allied people don't realize how long the stun is, then they realize they can wail on the AM for 4.25s.
It wasn't so much the morph countering miracle that game though. The entire wings team together were a nuisance. Disruptor ulti, doom, chrono etc. Just morph alone doesn't do anything to AM, but when you have a team to help out, support morph becomes nasty against any carry.
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On July 27 2016 17:51 Clarty wrote:
The only starting build on morphling is 8 tangoes 4 branches 1 circlet, you get 10 tangoes worth of regen, 6 int, 12 damage and fast wand. Just ferry out your ring of protection later on. If you are picking morph into a heavily contested lane you are doing it wrong.
the bsj build
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On August 08 2016 02:09 Obamarauder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2016 17:51 Clarty wrote:
The only starting build on morphling is 8 tangoes 4 branches 1 circlet, you get 10 tangoes worth of regen, 6 int, 12 damage and fast wand. Just ferry out your ring of protection later on. If you are picking morph into a heavily contested lane you are doing it wrong. the bsj build
And Aui, and comehdoter, and beesa, and idk who else but a lot of ppl. Illidan does mango build which is also pretty good I think, but gives less stats.
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Alright been spamming morph the last month, slowly improving. Need some insight on the following:
1. Dragon lance(or the first "Big Item" in general). Should I get it, if so, when?
I get that it is a very cost efficient item and fits into the item build of generally any ranged agi carries. In theory this item fits perfectly for morph to compensate for the lack or attack range plus the good stats it provides. But I have some trouble figuring out when to get it. Standard timing for Morph has always been aquila during laning phase, linkens<17, EB~25, where does DL fit into this then? If I get DL before EB it just makes EB less effective, I think.
To me it feels like getting an early DL on morph is like getting an early vanguard on AM. It enables you to fight a little in the early-mid game, but it doesn't accelerate your farm like linkens/BF? Is this a good comparison?
2. How do you deal with TB/Drow + Shadow Demon line ups that starts pushing as soon as laning phase is over?
Since TI is over I am seeing a lot of these line ups that puts so much pressure on you pre-20 or even pre-15 mins. As a morph this is just when I am finishing up on my linkens and I feel so useless to the team. It's like if we don't have some form of de-push we're basically fucked. In this type of games should I then be getting an early DL and starting fighting around lvl 8-10? Help out the team a little instead of just pressuring safelane's T1/T2?
Many thanks in advance.
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On August 24 2016 00:11 Eetee wrote:
Alright been spamming morph the last month, slowly improving. Need some insight on the following:
1. Dragon lance(or the first "Big Item" in general). Should I get it, if so, when?
I get that it is a very cost efficient item and fits into the item build of generally any ranged agi carries. In theory this item fits perfectly for morph to compensate for the lack or attack range plus the good stats it provides. But I have some trouble figuring out when to get it. Standard timing for Morph has always been aquila during laning phase, linkens<17, EB~25, where does DL fit into this then? If I get DL before EB it just makes EB less effective, I think.
To me it feels like getting an early DL on morph is like getting an early vanguard on AM. It enables you to fight a little in the early-mid game, but it doesn't accelerate your farm like linkens/BF? Is this a good comparison?
2. How do you deal with TB/Drow + Shadow Demon line ups that starts pushing as soon as laning phase is over?
Since TI is over I am seeing a lot of these line ups that puts so much pressure on you pre-20 or even pre-15 mins. As a morph this is just when I am finishing up on my linkens and I feel so useless to the team. It's like if we don't have some form of de-push we're basically fucked. In this type of games should I then be getting an early DL and starting fighting around lvl 8-10? Help out the team a little instead of just pressuring safelane's T1/T2?
Many thanks in advance.
DL should be for when you're not going Shotgun. Really, there aren't any situations where you'd actually want both...it either delays your shotgun timing, or it comes too late and you should be building bigger items by then.
And you don't deal with pushes. Early/Mid game timings are the counter to Morphling and other hard carries. Your team as a whole can stall and delay until you can actually start contributing, but the game plan should be to outlast their push and beat them late where you're stronger.
If the game's going that poorly, you're basically stuck hoping your Waveform and Adaptive Strike contribute enough damage to help. Maybe even build a Veil just so you can nuke down waves, and cheese with Waveform+Replicate. And question the futility of playing against push with no de-push.
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I pretty much always buy dragon lance on morphling, it is just so efficient that I never feel like it is worth skipping. Usually I either go for it after perseverance if I don't particularly need spell block, alternatively I build it after eblade for the cheap stats. It does delay your eblade a little bit but it allows you to join fights where you just wave on top of supports then chop them down with your autoattacks.
Another item I don't see many people get but I think has a lot of potential is blink dagger after eblade. Against good players they often will hide the squishy supports in the backline and it can be hard to pick them off without overcommitting with waveform. Blink helps a lot in that regard. Also much like the way ember uses dagger in fights you can blink in to right click and hold your waveform for an escape or some extra chasing power. Being able to instantly kill somebody from 1500+ range is just disgustingly strong in my opinion.
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On August 24 2016 02:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2016 00:11 Eetee wrote:
Alright been spamming morph the last month, slowly improving. Need some insight on the following:
1. Dragon lance(or the first "Big Item" in general). Should I get it, if so, when?
I get that it is a very cost efficient item and fits into the item build of generally any ranged agi carries. In theory this item fits perfectly for morph to compensate for the lack or attack range plus the good stats it provides. But I have some trouble figuring out when to get it. Standard timing for Morph has always been aquila during laning phase, linkens<17, EB~25, where does DL fit into this then? If I get DL before EB it just makes EB less effective, I think.
To me it feels like getting an early DL on morph is like getting an early vanguard on AM. It enables you to fight a little in the early-mid game, but it doesn't accelerate your farm like linkens/BF? Is this a good comparison?
2. How do you deal with TB/Drow + Shadow Demon line ups that starts pushing as soon as laning phase is over?
Since TI is over I am seeing a lot of these line ups that puts so much pressure on you pre-20 or even pre-15 mins. As a morph this is just when I am finishing up on my linkens and I feel so useless to the team. It's like if we don't have some form of de-push we're basically fucked. In this type of games should I then be getting an early DL and starting fighting around lvl 8-10? Help out the team a little instead of just pressuring safelane's T1/T2?
Many thanks in advance. DL should be for when you're not going Shotgun. Really, there aren't any situations where you'd actually want both...it either delays your shotgun timing, or it comes too late and you should be building bigger items by then. And you don't deal with pushes. Early/Mid game timings are the counter to Morphling and other hard carries. Your team as a whole can stall and delay until you can actually start contributing, but the game plan should be to outlast their push and beat them late where you're stronger. If the game's going that poorly, you're basically stuck hoping your Waveform and Adaptive Strike contribute enough damage to help. Maybe even build a Veil just so you can nuke down waves, and cheese with Waveform+Replicate. And question the futility of playing against push with no de-push.
If I don't go for Shotgun I just feel that there's no need to pick Morphling in the first place. Isn't the whole point of picking Morphling is so that you can nuke someone down quick and teamfight 5v4? And split push? If I want to forego EB in place of DL+stats wouldn't a Drow/TB pick be better? Or better yet, pick anti-mage who basically fits the same functionality of Morph minus the shotgun(since not going EB build).
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On August 24 2016 12:34 Eetee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2016 02:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 24 2016 00:11 Eetee wrote:
Alright been spamming morph the last month, slowly improving. Need some insight on the following:
1. Dragon lance(or the first "Big Item" in general). Should I get it, if so, when?
I get that it is a very cost efficient item and fits into the item build of generally any ranged agi carries. In theory this item fits perfectly for morph to compensate for the lack or attack range plus the good stats it provides. But I have some trouble figuring out when to get it. Standard timing for Morph has always been aquila during laning phase, linkens<17, EB~25, where does DL fit into this then? If I get DL before EB it just makes EB less effective, I think.
To me it feels like getting an early DL on morph is like getting an early vanguard on AM. It enables you to fight a little in the early-mid game, but it doesn't accelerate your farm like linkens/BF? Is this a good comparison?
2. How do you deal with TB/Drow + Shadow Demon line ups that starts pushing as soon as laning phase is over?
Since TI is over I am seeing a lot of these line ups that puts so much pressure on you pre-20 or even pre-15 mins. As a morph this is just when I am finishing up on my linkens and I feel so useless to the team. It's like if we don't have some form of de-push we're basically fucked. In this type of games should I then be getting an early DL and starting fighting around lvl 8-10? Help out the team a little instead of just pressuring safelane's T1/T2?
Many thanks in advance. DL should be for when you're not going Shotgun. Really, there aren't any situations where you'd actually want both...it either delays your shotgun timing, or it comes too late and you should be building bigger items by then. And you don't deal with pushes. Early/Mid game timings are the counter to Morphling and other hard carries. Your team as a whole can stall and delay until you can actually start contributing, but the game plan should be to outlast their push and beat them late where you're stronger. If the game's going that poorly, you're basically stuck hoping your Waveform and Adaptive Strike contribute enough damage to help. Maybe even build a Veil just so you can nuke down waves, and cheese with Waveform+Replicate. And question the futility of playing against push with no de-push. If I don't go for Shotgun I just feel that there's no need to pick Morphling in the first place. Isn't the whole point of picking Morphling is so that you can nuke someone down quick and teamfight 5v4? And split push? If I want to forego EB in place of DL+stats wouldn't a Drow/TB pick be better? Or better yet, pick anti-mage who basically fits the same functionality of Morph minus the shotgun(since not going EB build).
Often the idea is to get a solid lategame carry who can fight once he has 10k gold and never dies against teams without silences.
Suddenly the other side picks Huskar or AM and you are kinda forced to go righclick.
Just because there are better alternatives for the situation doesn't mean that you'll never find yourself in it. Morph isn't always last-pick.
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On August 25 2016 05:34 Blackfeather wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2016 12:34 Eetee wrote:On August 24 2016 02:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 24 2016 00:11 Eetee wrote:
Alright been spamming morph the last month, slowly improving. Need some insight on the following:
1. Dragon lance(or the first "Big Item" in general). Should I get it, if so, when?
I get that it is a very cost efficient item and fits into the item build of generally any ranged agi carries. In theory this item fits perfectly for morph to compensate for the lack or attack range plus the good stats it provides. But I have some trouble figuring out when to get it. Standard timing for Morph has always been aquila during laning phase, linkens<17, EB~25, where does DL fit into this then? If I get DL before EB it just makes EB less effective, I think.
To me it feels like getting an early DL on morph is like getting an early vanguard on AM. It enables you to fight a little in the early-mid game, but it doesn't accelerate your farm like linkens/BF? Is this a good comparison?
2. How do you deal with TB/Drow + Shadow Demon line ups that starts pushing as soon as laning phase is over?
Since TI is over I am seeing a lot of these line ups that puts so much pressure on you pre-20 or even pre-15 mins. As a morph this is just when I am finishing up on my linkens and I feel so useless to the team. It's like if we don't have some form of de-push we're basically fucked. In this type of games should I then be getting an early DL and starting fighting around lvl 8-10? Help out the team a little instead of just pressuring safelane's T1/T2?
Many thanks in advance. DL should be for when you're not going Shotgun. Really, there aren't any situations where you'd actually want both...it either delays your shotgun timing, or it comes too late and you should be building bigger items by then. And you don't deal with pushes. Early/Mid game timings are the counter to Morphling and other hard carries. Your team as a whole can stall and delay until you can actually start contributing, but the game plan should be to outlast their push and beat them late where you're stronger. If the game's going that poorly, you're basically stuck hoping your Waveform and Adaptive Strike contribute enough damage to help. Maybe even build a Veil just so you can nuke down waves, and cheese with Waveform+Replicate. And question the futility of playing against push with no de-push. If I don't go for Shotgun I just feel that there's no need to pick Morphling in the first place. Isn't the whole point of picking Morphling is so that you can nuke someone down quick and teamfight 5v4? And split push? If I want to forego EB in place of DL+stats wouldn't a Drow/TB pick be better? Or better yet, pick anti-mage who basically fits the same functionality of Morph minus the shotgun(since not going EB build). Often the idea is to get a solid lategame carry who can fight once he has 10k gold and never dies against teams without silences. Suddenly the other side picks Huskar or AM and you are kinda forced to go righclick. Just because there are better alternatives for the situation doesn't mean that you'll never find yourself in it. Morph isn't always last-pick.
Ah..if you put it that way then it's very reasonable haha. thanks.Guess I must learn to be flexible.
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Can someone tell me how is morphling strong this patch? I mean yes hes a pretty decent split pusher, but his kill potential solo wise is really not a lot, and he actually takes quite a lot to come online. I mean ideally, you can have a 25 min linkens + EB if you have a decent game, but compare that networth to something like a TB with manta Diffusal, or split pushers that have better sustain, i just feel that even as a split pusher, the moment even a support or core shows up in lane, you have to bail immediately.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
he is almost impossible to kill, and actually very strong in early fights due to waveform and the amount of right click dmg he actually has.
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LOL, actually thats not true at all. His escape mechanism like Replicate actually has pretty high up time. And if you wave form in to do dmg, you actually just used ur escape mechanism into 3-4 heroes.Most of the time morphs will just uise their nuke, and honestly W just doenst even do ALOT of damage. Waveform has good damage if you use it to chase but thats only if you are winning fights unless you are wave forming in and the replciating out, which costs like 60-70% of his mana poool early on and you are still useless outside of the fight. Honestly, he just doenst feel like he do A LOT. If u are forced to str morph, you are basically useless the rest of the fight. Yeah they will blow a lot on u and dont kill you which is good, but you have almost no follow up then. Someone comparable will be like an Alchemist, If you fail to blow him up, he still contributes a shit ton via acid spray and stun/radiance burn. Hell even heroes like TB feels like they contribute so much more to the fights than morph do.
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i mean you have to play mildly intelligently but that doesn't discount the amount of damage he can do and his mobility
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Not to mention with how good hood is, Eblades effectiveness is really reduced when cores that can comfortably build this item builds it.
Almost any carry outside of AM feels like they contribute way more to team fights with similar farm of an Eblade Linkens morph, while still having some kind of recovery mechanism that is better. Like literally i have watched a lot of morph games in 6-7k where if morph has a bad start, he literally just afk farms until eblade linkens or whatever, anbd his only contribution in a team fight is a 400 dmg nuke on a 10 sec cd. Lol...
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On August 31 2016 04:14 Kaj wrote:
Not to mention with how good hood is, Eblades effectiveness is really reduced when cores that can comfortably build this item builds it.
Almost any carry outside of AM feels like they contribute way more to team fights with similar farm of an Eblade Linkens morph, while still having some kind of recovery mechanism that is better. Like literally i have watched a lot of morph games in 6-7k where if morph has a bad start, he literally just afk farms until eblade linkens or whatever, anbd his only contribution in a team fight is a 400 dmg nuke on a 10 sec cd. Lol...
400 damage nuke is about 600 damage off. E-Blade+Adaptive should instantly kill a support or a less tanky mid/offlaner.
Now, a lot of other heroes can do that with less farm. Very few can do that while also having a 200ish damage right click with really high Aspd after. Fewer can do it with a get-out-of-dodge button. And none can have all of that while having ridiculous late-game damage and tank.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
yeah i stopped listening to kaj ever since he claimed spirit breaker hard counters slark.
can u list some cores (read: mid/carries) that actually build hood? shotgun combo = 400 dmg LOL have u even played morph? not to mention thinking that a morph that has had to str morph is useless (nobody says u need to morph ALL of ur agi into str, use your brain and only morph whatever u need to survive).
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Morphling is picked because he is versatile in terms of the type of damage output (magic damage nuke combo that can instantly make a fight 4v5, consistently high physical dps for hitting towers and BKB'd heroes which is not cooldown reliant) although probably not being the absolute best in either of those, and extreme survival skills, meaning he can actually deliver that tower damage with little risk. He has decent mobility, which means he usually doesn't need a blink like jugg or sven do, although his low base ms makes him somewhat kitable (which is solved by him not being solely a physical DPS carry).
His physical EHP in full agi is oftentimes somewhat overstated though, primarily because of his relatively low HP, and his magic EHP is poor when silenced/hex. It is here that where we see that the hero doesn't actually have a "real" steroid, outside of his lower-than-average BAT. The hero has to get items that provide HP and/or protection, so that he can morph enough strength to deal significant damage without dying to a rightclick.
He also pairs well with SD, who is a popular pick. One last thing is that he provides versatility in drafting. He is both a competent support as well as a carry.
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Excellent hero right now, I wish I were better on him. Shotgun combo has never really been about killing cores, its about killing supports / ppl with who die in combo so you start a fight 5v4. It can also be leveraged for map control so the enemy is forced to group up to defend etc.
Against lineups lacking in magical burst / silence you can comfortably float at 600 hp or w.e and still be ridiculously hard to kill early game. Morph creates pressure by virtue of being Morph, QB is godly on him.
Definitely a hero that needs a lot of practice in terms of balancing agi/morph throughout the game, but the amount of gank attempts you can bait and countergank (if your team tp's in) is insane.
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EPT
